FB: Northwest Conference

[speedybigboy]

Pat....what is the reasoning behind UWEC going ahead of Whitworth? There has to be some type of explanation.....if you could find that out we would all be greatfull. This might mean that if Linfield would have beat Whitworth...they may not have gone either so I guess we all have a special interest in knowing what happened and the basis for the snub.

They both had 2 overall losses but Whitworth had 1 DIII loss where as UWEC had 2 DIII losses....what were the deciding factors??? It would seem that same division win/loss % would be primary criteria?

Still waiting for an answer on this......Pat?

Bluenote:

Go figure, I have a lot of stuff going on on Selection Sunday and stopping by the message board to answer impatient questions is not high on my list.

If you could have managed to be a little more respectful for the amount of time I've put into things today I would set aside time now to answer. But otherwise you can just hunt around the site and find where I have already said my piece on UWEC/Whitworth.

Please -- cut me a little slack on the busiest day of the year.

Pat, we are so used to you keeping us in line I think we surmise that you are always on the board. 

I searched around to try to find your comments on the Eua Claire - Whitworth issue but I haven't found them...........yet.  Will look more tomorrow.

I'd like to say, that I for one, greatly appreciate this site and the work you guys put in to it.  It has allowed me to follow my team, PLU.  Being in Alaska I really have no other option, nor do I need one.  The local paper stopped carrying small school late arriving scores years ago. 

Most of my family was over on Saturday and I was showing my dad and my brother (a local high school coach) your website while I listened to PLU-Willamette and then OXY-Whittier, all from links easily accessed from your site.

This website, with the banter, trash talk, comraderie, stats, schedules, audio links, etc. has rekindled my pride in my football team and given me the desire to make the trip down to see a game, something I've only done once in the 23 years since I played, and not at all in 12 or 13 years.  For that, I thank you.

Oh yeah, Whitworth still got HOSED and by extension the NWC.

[coco]

And another point for Mr. Burrows -- We're not in leagues. They are called "conferences."

NCAA should turn over the D3 piece of it to Pat Coleman. He knows more about D3 than all the rest of them put together.

Leagues is perfectly fine as a synonym for conferences. Let's not overreact here.

Sorry, Pat.

I guess I'm just looking for a nit to pick in my annoyance at Whitworth's being left out of the playoffs.

I'll echo what Speedybigboy said about how much we all enjoy this site. Thank you for providing it for us. It does give us a place to celebrate our schools. Today is a good example of what else the site can do. It's united the whole NWC in support of one team because we think that team got screwed.

[Pat Coleman]

What bothers me is when people refer to "divisions" instead of conferences.

[bluenote]

Pat....what is the reasoning behind UWEC going ahead of Whitworth? There has to be some type of explanation.....if you could find that out we would all be greatfull. This might mean that if Linfield would have beat Whitworth...they may not have gone either so I guess we all have a special interest in knowing what happened and the basis for the snub.

They both had 2 overall losses but Whitworth had 1 DIII loss where as UWEC had 2 DIII losses....what were the deciding factors??? It would seem that same division win/loss % would be primary criteria?

Still waiting for an answer on this......Pat?

Bluenote:

Go figure, I have a lot of stuff going on on Selection Sunday and stopping by the message board to answer impatient questions is not high on my list.

If you could have managed to be a little more respectful for the amount of time I've put into things today I would set aside time now to answer. But otherwise you can just hunt around the site and find where I have already said my piece on UWEC/Whitworth.

Please -- cut me a little slack on the busiest day of the year.

Pat....If you don't have time to answer questions that's fine. I know you are busy but you could just say that without the insults and demeaning comments.

I found the answer myself.
Here is an email I received from Mr. Burrow:

"Thank you for your e-mail.  I know that team selections are not always greeted with happiness.  I also expect fervent fans like you to follow their teams and show their loyalty.
Very simply, the NWC is a good league.  However, since the NWC is not an AQ conference,  the teams in the conference are in our Pool B allocation which only has three guaranteed slots.  The three guaranteed slots went to Case Western (10-0), Salisbury (9-1) and Wesley (9-1).  As a result of not being selected In Pool B, Whitworth was subsequently placed with all the other Pool C teams.
There were four one loss teams and 14 two loss teams (18 total teams) competing for seven Pool C slots.  It was a very difficult decision, but Whitworth did not have as high a ranking as the other teams when a full analysis of the selection criteria was performed.  I would also point out that Whitworth's loss to Redlands played a major factor in how the teams were ultimately ranked in the region.
My job as staff liaison is to sit in with the committee and work with them to assure that all the criteria is followed.  The six-hours that the committee reviewed and analyzed the team followed all policies and procedures.
Thank you again for your interest in Division III Football."

[Pat Coleman]

Pat....If you don't have time to answer questions that's fine. I know you are busy but you could just say that without the insults and demeaning comments.

You know I am busy? Didn't appear so yesterday. We are not at your personal beck and call on the NWC board.

I read that and he didn't answer your question any differently than he answered our question -- the results of which we posted on the front page about 12:30 ET yesterday.

[RedandPurple]

"...It was a very difficult decision, but Whitworth did not have as high a ranking as the other teams when a full analysis of the selection criteria was performed.  I would also point out that Whitworth's loss to Redlands played a major factor in how the teams were ultimately ranked in the region. My job as staff liaison is to sit in with the committee and work with them to assure that all the criteria is followed.  The six-hours that the committee reviewed and analyzed the team followed all policies and procedures."

Agree or disagree this sounds like a clear answer to me. Forget about the it's all about the money thinking.
Perhaps Whitworth needs to follow Linfields example next time and "Leave No Doubt".

This season is over, time to move on.

CATDOME LIVES!

[bluenote]

We are not at your personal beck and call on the NWC board.

...OK...I think we get the picture.


In regard to Mr. Burrows response, I think if I were on the Whitworth staff I'd want more of a detailed explanation. Just the one loss to Redlands wouldn't explain it. Why is it such a penalty to loose to Redlands? They were a conference champ with only 1 loss.....and what were all the other factors in the so called "full analysis"?

[Pirate Pride]

still stunned...

[Pat Coleman]

Pat....If you don't have time to answer questions that's fine. I know you are busy but you could just say that without the insults and demeaning comments.

Also, if "impatient" is insulting and demeaning, I apologize. It was the most diplomatic terms I could come up with to describe three posts demanding an answer.

[George Thompson]

[q
I found the answer myself.
Here is an email I received from Mr. Burrow:

"Thank you for your e-mail.  I know that team selections are not always greeted with happiness.  I also expect fervent fans like you to follow their teams and show their loyalty.
Very simply, the NWC is a good league.  However, since the NWC is not an AQ conference,  the teams in the conference are in our Pool B allocation which only has three guaranteed slots.  The three guaranteed slots went to Case Western (10-0), Salisbury (9-1) and Wesley (9-1).  As a result of not being selected In Pool B, Whitworth was subsequently placed with all the other Pool C teams.
There were four one loss teams and 14 two loss teams (18 total teams) competing for seven Pool C slots.  It was a very difficult decision, but Whitworth did not have as high a ranking as the other teams when a full analysis of the selection criteria was performed.  I would also point out that Whitworth's loss to Redlands played a major factor in how the teams were ultimately ranked in the region.
My job as staff liaison is to sit in with the committee and work with them to assure that all the criteria is followed.  The six-hours that the committee reviewed and analyzed the team followed all policies and procedures.
Thank you again for your interest in Division III Football."

[/quote].

Bluenote,

That is virtually word for word what Mr. Burrow emailed me earlier.    sounds like a form letter to pacify us out here in the FAR, FAR west.    Some back east still think we are fighting Indians.

George

[downtown48]

OK...haven't been on here since yesterday afternoon...two things,

1. I don't think it's unfair that Redlands isn't hosting.  St. John's was ranked in the top 5 and just got their first loss of the season on Saturday.  Redlands hasn't even been ranked most of the year and St. John's was probably still ranked above Redlands in the final regional regional rankings.  Combine that with the fact that the NCAA stands to make about $70,000 more dollars playing the game at St. John's at $8.00 a throw and that Redlands has never won a playoff game in the NCAA...I think we can see the reason they're going to Minn.

2.  Burrrow's response is the biggest cop out of all time.  The worst line there is "I would also point out that Whitworth's loss to Redlands played a major factor in how the teams were ultimately ranked in region."  The loss to Redlands was correctly reflected in the regional rankings that were published with Redlands being ranked one spot in front of Whitworth.  There was nothing that happened in the last week of the season that would have catapulted UWEC ahead of Whitworth in the final Regional rankings that, oh by the way, go unpublished...nothing!  I think it's time that the final regional rankings ARE published, much like the final coaches poll is made public in Division 1.   If they're going to massage the rankings to suit their needs, they need to be held accountable...Mr. Burrows response amounts to nothing more than a mom telling her kid "because I said so!"   

[Foss]

Funny, I received the exact same copy and paste message from Mr. Burrow. He would not directly answer my question as to what happened for UWEC to jump Whitworth in the regional rankings. I think we know by now that nothing actually happened. Also, no response as to why a loss to a 3-7 team would not be a "major factor", much more so than a loss to a conference champ who is going to the playoffs, especially when this was a second D3 loss to Whitworth's one.

Pathetic.

[bluenote]

Mr. Burrows response amounts to nothing more than a mom telling her kid "because I said so!"   

I agree, that's why I would demand a detailed explanation from the committee if I were on the Whitworth staff. Mr. Burrows and his committee need to show more respect for the parties involved by explaining in detail how they came to their conclusion.

Pat....I agree I was being somewhat impatient but I wasn't "demanding" anything. I think my question was one of the most important questions on the board in the last 6 months. This snubbing of Whitworth is a credibility issue with the NCAA Selection Committee in my opinion. Either that or we don't have an understanding of the selection criteria. There is no way UWEC should have been chosen before Whitworth and even you and Keith were in agreement that it was very strange.

Foss....those are great questions that you pose....THEY SHOULD BE ANSWERED!!!

[speedybigboy]

"...It was a very difficult decision, but Whitworth did not have as high a ranking as the other teams when a full analysis of the selection criteria was performed.  I would also point out that Whitworth's loss to Redlands played a major factor in how the teams were ultimately ranked in the region. My job as staff liaison is to sit in with the committee and work with them to assure that all the criteria is followed.  The six-hours that the committee reviewed and analyzed the team followed all policies and procedures."

Agree or disagree this sounds like a clear answer to me. Forget about the it's all about the money thinking.
Perhaps Whitworth needs to follow Linfields example next time and "Leave No Doubt".

This season is over, time to move on.

CATDOME LIVES!

No offense to you RnP but I don't think he answered the question AT ALL.  The question is not where Whitworth ranks in relation to Redlands but in relation to Eau Claire.  When I get a chance later today I intend to go over the "criteria", but from what I remember Whitworth should be in ahead of Eau Claire.  Then I will move on and support REDLANDS in the playoffs.

Off the subject of football, as I celebrate Veterans Day today, I'd like to thank all the Veterans who have served our country.  They have ensured that we continue to have the Freedom of Speech we so thoroughly enjoy in this venue.

[02 Warhawk]

Funny, I received the exact same copy and paste message from Mr. Burrow. He would not directly answer my question as to what happened for UWEC to jump Whitworth in the regional rankings. I think we know by now that nothing actually happened. Also, no response as to why a loss to a 3-7 team would not be a "major factor", much more so than a loss to a conference champ who is going to the playoffs, especially when this was a second D3 loss to Whitworth's one.

Pathetic.

Being a UWW fan, i think the NCAA gave UWEC the benefit-of-the-doubt for going 5-2 in the toughest conference in DIII. It's very tough to win on the road in the WIAC. Even Whitewater had a couple close ones on the road, With that being said UWEC had a better strength of schedule than Whitworth did.