Top 25 talk

[Gregory Sager]

[augie77]

How's your trip planning coming along?  Barrow to Tierra del Fuego?

[ElRetornodelEspencio]

The problem is, you DON'T really talk Top 25 - you talk Marietta.  Anything else you post is just to denigrate other top teams, or claim that JCU (who lost AGAIN today) is MUCH better than their record,

Going back to the time when this thread was at least somewhat about basketball rather than just taking shots at me...

Massey had this game 84-87; it ended up 93-91 because Nate Burger went 7 of 9 from 3.

There are 8 OAC teams that come tomorrow will likely be in the Massey top 100. It's not the WIAC or CCIW, but it's right there with any other league in D3. A former OAC coach I used to know (not by Gotye) used to say you could be a pretty good team in the OAC and finish 8th. It may not have been true then, but I think it is now.

Iowa has the same number of good teams, just one total team fewer. NESCAC well we'll see soon how good they are, but their bad teams are merely below average rather than Otterbein bad. Minnesota has 7 pretty good teams, but their schedules are a little tougher across the board, partly due to access to the Wisconsin teams for non-cons. UAA is 4 quite good teams and 4 bad teams.

Those leagues are a pretty decent piece above the rest.

[Pat Coleman]

Moderator reports piling up on this board, on both sides. Lovely.

If Wilma is bad because it's a woman's name, what do we do with the Etta Express? Also a problem?

Anyway, here's a wide range of previous references to Wilmington as Wilma.

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4097.msg1156529;topicseen#msg1156529
http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4097.msg645307;topicseen#msg645307
http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4292.msg1732464;topicseen#msg1732464
http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4292.msg1177571;topicseen#msg1177571
http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4292.msg885231;topicseen#msg885231
http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4292.msg682171;topicseen#msg682171
http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=5126.msg1172585#msg1172585
http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=3841.msg1773069;topicseen#msg1773069
http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=3841.msg1759044;topicseen#msg1759044
http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=3841.msg1719186;topicseen#msg1719186
http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=3841.msg1695405;topicseen#msg1695405
http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=3841.msg1693507;topicseen#msg1693507

Meanwhile -- as much as I find Spence personally grating and annoying, there are indeed several posts here that serve solely to bash a fellow poster and do not discuss the topic at hand.

[ElRetornodelEspencio]

How's your trip planning coming along?  Barrow to Tierra del Fuego?

Barrow would be a step up from Minnesota right now.

Did read about the Darien Gap, though. Hard to imagine a place you can't put a road through. Sounds like it would be cool if you had a guide. Panamanian military is boosting its presence to fight crime through it though, so seems like it would be at least possible if you had them on your side and a reason for them to be so (maybe writing for someone, publicity for the country).

[ElRetornodelEspencio]

Moderator reports piling up on this board, on both sides. Lovely.

If Wilma is bad because it's a woman's name, what do we do with the Etta Express? Also a problem?

I'm just going to assume you're not serious. Or you just came in from the cold, which would make anyone's mind foggy.

[Gregory Sager]

Moderator reports piling up on this board, on both sides. Lovely.

If Wilma is bad because it's a woman's name, what do we do with the Etta Express? Also a problem?

I'm just going to assume you're not serious.

Meet Etta James, Spence. One of the greatest R&B singers of all time. If you've never heard Etta James sing, you're missing out. She truly had a gift.



Meet Etta Baker, Spence. She was a Piedmont blues guitarist and singer from North Carolina.



Ever seen Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, Spence? Great movie. Get it from Netflix sometime. In this film, the girlfriend of the Sundance Kid (Robert Redford) is played by Katharine Ross. The character's name? Etta Place. Along with Butch, Sundance, and the rest of the Hole In the Wall Gang, her character was based upon a real person whose name was Etta Place, who lived in the Old West and hung around with outlaws. Here's a picture of the real-life Sundance and Etta:



Moving right along ...



Meet singer/actress Etta Moten, Spence, also known as Etta Moten Barnett. She was a featured player in a lot of movies back in the '30s, back when there weren't a lot of opportunities for black women to be seen on the silver screen. She played Bess in Porgy and Bess on Broadway, sang at the White House for FDR, was a prominent civic leader in Chicago's black community for many decades, and lived to the ripe old age of 102.

Etta Express, indeed.

[Gregory Sager]

There are 8 OAC teams that come tomorrow will likely be in the Massey top 100. It's not the WIAC or CCIW, but it's right there with any other league in D3. A former OAC coach I used to know (not by Gotye) used to say you could be a pretty good team in the OAC and finish 8th. It may not have been true then, but I think it is now.

The OAC has always been good, as far as I'm concerned ... and I go back almost all the way to the beginning of D3 back in the mid-'70s.

Iowa has the same number of good teams, just one total team fewer.

The IIAC has strung together a nice portfolio of non-conference wins this season, and both of the IIAC teams that I've seen (one in person, one via webcast) are good. But let's not be hasty. We're talking about a league whose reputation has always been that of a circuit that runs up gaudy records by playing lots of cupcakes -- not by design, mind you, but more as a happenstance of geography, since Iowa is at a remove from almost all of the traditional Central Region and West Region powerhouses, while a lot of UMAC and MWC dross is close at hand -- and then never gets anywhere in the NCAA tourney. The next IIAC team that makes it to the Final Four will be the first -- and we're talking about a league that has been a part of D3 since the division's inception.

NESCAC well we'll see soon how good they are, but their bad teams are merely below average rather than Otterbein bad.

The NESCAC is always there. Sure, it's a league that has three built-in advantages: 1) it only plays a single round-robin schedule, so it doesn't beat up upon itself the way that all of the other strong leagues in D3 do; 2) New England D3s are so thick on the ground that NESCAC teams can cherry-pick schedules that suit their needs (i.e., good teams in bad leagues that'll add luster to a team's strength of schedule); and 3) the NESCAC's top dog always has the easiest road to Salem. But don't let that fool you; the top half of that league is always good, and its champion can play with anybody in the nation in any given season.

Minnesota has 7 pretty good teams, but their schedules are a little tougher across the board, partly due to access to the Wisconsin teams for non-cons.

The MIAC has traditionally been overrated, and it still is as a whole. But St. Thomas, over the past decade, has been one of the best programs in the entire division, and the Tommies have the hardware to prove it. Just don't let that fool you into thinking that the Tommies are reflective of the whole league.

UAA is 4 quite good teams and 4 bad teams.

This year, yes. Usually, no. The UAA is usually one of the three or four best leagues in the nation.

[ElRetornodelEspencio]

I'm aware it's a name. No disagreement from me on Etta James, btw.

I'm guessing you've never been to Schaly Stadium, or Pioneer Park (when Schaly was the coach).

It's not like Etta is a slang term. During the Schaly era it was literally the baseball program team nickname. He didn't use anything else, purposefully. Literally on the public address script it was "MC Etta Express". You didn't say Pioneers around him. He invented the name Etta Express expressly to not have to use the name Pioneers.

That has changed with Brewer, but Etta Express is still very much a name the team calls itself, by any definition.

Somehow guessing that this isn't the case with Wilmington and Heidelberg. Though to be honest, when you're stuck with a name like Student Princes, just about anything is better. They actually did call themselves 'the Berg' for a while. Somehow managed to pick something even worse.






FYI, Marietta itself is a nickname for a female: it was named for the then-Queen of France -- Marie Antoinette, without whose assistance in the revolution we would have stayed limey Brits, at least for the time being, and settlement west of the Ohio would likely have been forbidden. Even more objectionable, we were would have been Quebecois. Shudder. Pretty impressive that she helped us even though the British tried to sell us out to them.

Washington sneaked out to the Ohio country before the war to do some surveying, told Rufus Putnam "damn, dog. It's pretty great out there. I would check it out myself if I didn't have this plantation full of slaves to run." After the Revolution, the government gave or sold tracts of land in the area -- of which one of my direct ancestors got one for his service to Gen. Washington at Valley Forge. (He wasn't part of the Ohio Company though, his land was south of Parkersburg in WV).

Point being that you picked a damn poor example of disparaging names. Being named Marietta is a source of pride and a woman that offered help she didn't have to offer to allow us to settle there. And the Etta Express is the only name most of the older generation baseball alums ever knew.

More than likely, most of the other Ettas in part owe their names to the original Marietta.

So unless Wilmington has some connection to prehistoric um...history? or Heidelberg to the Swiss Alps ... it doesn't work.

[ElRetornodelEspencio]

There are 8 OAC teams that come tomorrow will likely be in the Massey top 100. It's not the WIAC or CCIW, but it's right there with any other league in D3. A former OAC coach I used to know (not by Gotye) used to say you could be a pretty good team in the OAC and finish 8th. It may not have been true then, but I think it is now.

The OAC has always been good, as far as I'm concerned ... and I go back almost all the way to the beginning of D3 back in the mid-'70s.

Iowa has the same number of good teams, just one total team fewer.

The IIAC has strung together a nice portfolio of non-conference wins this season, and both of the IIAC teams that I've seen (one in person, one via webcast) are good. But let's not be hasty. We're talking about a league whose reputation has always been that of a circuit that runs up gaudy records by playing lots of cupcakes -- not by design, mind you, but more as a happenstance of geography, since Iowa is at a remove from almost all of the traditional Central Region and West Region powerhouses, while a lot of UMAC and MWC dross is close at hand -- and then never gets anywhere in the NCAA tourney. The next IIAC team that makes it to the Final Four will be the first -- and we're talking about a league that has been a part of D3 since the division's inception.

NESCAC well we'll see soon how good they are, but their bad teams are merely below average rather than Otterbein bad.

The NESCAC is always there. Sure, it's a league that has three built-in advantages: 1) it only plays a single round-robin schedule, so it doesn't beat up upon itself the way that all of the other strong leagues in D3 do; 2) New England D3s are so thick on the ground that NESCAC teams can cherry-pick schedules that suit their needs (i.e., good teams in bad leagues that'll add luster to a team's strength of schedule); and 3) the NESCAC's top dog always has the easiest road to Salem. But don't let that fool you; the top half of that league is always good, and its champion can play with anybody in the nation in any given season.

Minnesota has 7 pretty good teams, but their schedules are a little tougher across the board, partly due to access to the Wisconsin teams for non-cons.

The MIAC has traditionally been overrated, and it still is as a whole. But St. Thomas, over the past decade, has been one of the best programs in the entire division, and the Tommies have the hardware to prove it. Just don't let that fool you into thinking that the Tommies are reflective of the whole league.

UAA is 4 quite good teams and 4 bad teams.

This year, yes. Usually, no. The UAA is usually one of the three or four best leagues in the nation.

This is all fine, but I was talking about this year and primarily looking at top 100 teams (though actually I used top 1000 in all cbk, because it ends up being pretty close to the same thing and that's what you get when you order by conference in Masseyland).

I would agree with Iowa not having a Final 4 team, but they have a lot of pretty good teams and Wartburg is 2-0 vs. the WIAC. Central has wins over Platteville and Wash U. Both teams beat Grinnell, not that I really know how much that says. Most of the other top 2/3 or so of the Iowa conference have at least one noteworthy win. And in MN, Concordia-MN is getting a boost from having played a top 200 team and getting beaten by 35. Still think it's a good league though and Bethel (a good team this year who Heidelberg beat on a neutral court) got screwed out of a bid a couple of years ago because their schedule didn't get enough credit.

My basic point is that it's the WIAC, CCIW and then a group of conferences that could be 3rd, and the OAC is in that group. Massey has the OAC 7th right now but the main reason is Otterbein is so bad and there's only 1 legit top 35 or so team (though I think Mount and John Carroll could well end up there). So it's not a real surprise when a team like Northern beats another good team at home, or Muskingum knocks off a couple of conference heavies at home.

I feel like Marietta is the best team in the conference, but by no means can they walk into a conference gym and get a win without playing well.

[Gregory Sager]

As usual, Spence, you're bending over so far backwards to make a point that your hair is going to get stuck in your shoetops behind your ankles. The issue is this: You threw a conniption over nicknames that have been common currency on this site for as long as I can remember -- and I've been a reader and poster here for two decades now, so I'm pretty sure that those nicknames predate this site. What caused your tantrum? It's because they're female nicknames. And your school? Why, it has a female nickname, too. Hence:

If Wilma is bad because it's a woman's name, what do we do with the Etta Express? Also a problem?

No disparagement ever meant, none ever taken ... except by you.

[ElRetornodelEspencio]

As usual, Spence, you're bending over so far backwards to make a point that your hair is going to get stuck in your shoetops behind your ankles.

Why the hell would I read anything beyond this? What the hell gives you the right to be at utter pill and then think your opinion means jack?

You've been reported, again. I'm done suffering fools. Pat said something yesterday about this and apparently you can't listen.

Funny how you complain about me, but you're being more of a jerk than I ever was. I can't make a post without you or some similar dumbkopf having something snide to say and then blaming me for the aftermath.

You got a problem with me? Come up to Minnesota and say it to my face. Otherwise, shut up and stay on topic if all you can do is personally insult and attack me.

You apparently can't read, either. I already covered all the etta stuff with Pat, quite thoroughly, I thought.

This is the last time I say it because I end up spending more time dealing with this crap than anything relating to the topic. I'm just going to start wearing out the report button and Pat can decide what to do from there.

[ElRetornodelEspencio]

Now, what I actually came here for...teams in the top 10 in both rating and power rating:
(ordered by overall rating, mostly so people wouldn't have a gripe about Marietta being listed first)

Whitman (1, 2)
Marietta (2, 1)
Neumann (5, 6)
Whitewater (6, 5)
Salisbury (3, 9)
River Falls (4, 8)
Hope (8, 4)

Babs is ranked 13, 17 and Amy is 25, 19.

The efficiency ratings haven't been updated yet, but I'd expected Etta, Neumann (hello Neumann), Salisbury (steak), (Christine Todd) Whitman, and Hope (well...crap) to be top 10 from the group above. River (Rose) Falls was 19th coming into today and (Betty) Whitewater somehow 30th (might need to look at something there).

So it would appear you have a consensus top 5 between the three sets of rankings.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

The best team Whitewater has played all season is a 4-4 Ohio Northern squad.  Their schedule is terrible.  They might be good, but there's very little way to know that at this point.  I generally don't vote for a team until they have a good win on their books.

[ElRetornodelEspencio]

The best team Whitewater has played all season is a 4-4 Ohio Northern squad.  Their schedule is terrible.  They might be good, but there's very little way to know that at this point.  I generally don't vote for a team until they have a good win on their books.

Lindsey Wilson is a better win. They're ranked about the same as Oshkosh and just beat a 13-1 team that has wins over Virginia Union and Central State.

Winning a true road game against ONU is a credible win as well. Top 100 team in their gym and beat them soundly. Guess it depends on how good you consider to be good. I'd say a 100ish team at home is comparable to 50ish on the road. Mount Union is ranked 57th and is projected a 1 point loser at Northern, who is 93rd. So seems about right to me.

Whitewater hasn't come close to losing either.

They play Ripon and Central before the first of the year.

Did you vote for Babson and Amherst with their poor schedules? Or Rochester or Swarthmore...

I'm all for having teams prove it, but I'm also for consistency and it doesn't seem like Whitwater has played a markedly worse schedule than any of those teams.