Top 25 talk

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I'm eager to see whether the pollsters have Augie or Whitman #2 in the final poll.  Despite Augie coming within a blocked lay-up (by the national POY, no less) of the title, I'd lean towards Whitman - 1 loss vs. 8 losses is a pretty big difference.

In the women's poll, #2 is easy, IMO.  Tufts was 30-0 against everyone not named Amherst, so 3 losses vs. the 1 loss of several teams is by no means disqualifying.

I have Whitman #2. I think if Babson had played on Friday the way they played on Saturday, Whitman would be the champ right now.  That's not to take anything away from Augie, but even with as much as this young team has improved, they do still have some weaknesses.  I also put Rochester at #3 - they had some struggles towards the end of the season, but their tourney performance was stellar.

The sky really does seem the limit for Augustana, but that might better be reflected in next year's preseason poll.  I find it hard to believe Whitman can get a whole lot better than they were this year, but Augustana can be pretty significantly better than they were even yesterday.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I'm eager to see whether the pollsters have Augie or Whitman #2 in the final poll.  Despite Augie coming within a blocked lay-up (by the national POY, no less) of the title, I'd lean towards Whitman - 1 loss vs. 8 losses is a pretty big difference.

In the women's poll, #2 is easy, IMO.  Tufts was 30-0 against everyone not named Amherst, so 3 losses vs. the 1 loss of several teams is by no means disqualifying.

I have Whitman #2. I think if Babson had played on Friday the way they played on Saturday, Whitman would be the champ right now.  That's not to take anything away from Augie, but even with as much as this young team has improved, they do still have some weaknesses.  I also put Rochester at #3 - they had some struggles towards the end of the season, but their tourney performance was stellar.

The sky really does seem the limit for Augustana, but that might better be reflected in next year's preseason poll.  I find it hard to believe Whitman can get a whole lot better than they were this year, but Augustana can be pretty significantly better than they were even yesterday.

Yet, ironically, Augie may not even be picked to win the CCIW!  Assuming preseason AA Connor Raridon returns as good as ever from injury, and with 2nd team all-region Alex Sorenson also returning, NCC may be the conference favorite.

[Gregory Sager]

This is where the eventual Final Four teams were picked in each of the d3hoops.com annual preseason polls (if they were picked at all):

year	champ	2nd	3rd	4th
2000	Calvin (#22)	Wisconsin-Eau Claire (#19)	Salem State (ORV)	Franklin & Marshall (#5)
2001	Catholic (#7)	William Paterson (#2)	Illinois Wesleyan (#25)	Ohio Northern (ORV)
2002	Otterbein (no votes)	Elizabethtown (ORV)	Carthage (#1)	Rochester (no votes)
2003	Williams (#11)	Gustavus Adolphus (ORV)	Wooster (ORV)	Hampden-Sydney (#7)
2004	Wisconsin-Stevens Point (#3)	Williams (#1)	John Carroll (#12)	Amherst (#14)
2005	Wisconsin-Stevens Point (#1)	Rochester (#5)	Calvin (no votes)	York (PA) (no votes)
2006	Virginia Wesleyan (#11)	Wittenberg (#10)	Illinois Wesleyan (#1)	Amherst (#5)
2007	Amherst (#3)	Virginia Wesleyan (#1)	Washington (MO) (ORV)	Wooster (#2)
2008	Washington (MO) (#1)	Amherst (#2)	Hope (#11)	Ursinus (no votes)
2009	Washington (MO) (#1)	Stockton (ORV)	Guilford (ORV)	Franklin & Marshall (no votes)
2010	Wisconsin-Stevens Point (#10)	Williams (ORV)	*Guilford (#3)	*Randolph-Macon (#19)
2011	St. Thomas (#13)	Wooster (#6)	*Middlebury (#9)	*Williams (#8)
2012	Wisconsin-Whitewater (ORV)	Cabrini (#14)	*Illinois Wesleyan (ORV)	*MIT (#10)
2013	Amherst (#5)	Mary Hardin-Baylor (ORV)	*North Central (IL) (#6)	*St. Thomas (#11)
2014	Wisconsin-Whitewater (#13)	Williams (#3)	*Amherst (#1)	*Illinois Wesleyan (#2)
2015	Wisconsin-Stevens Point (#7)	Augustana (#3)	*Babson (#23)	*Virginia Wesleyan (#19)
2016	St. Thomas (#4)	Benedictine (no votes)	*Amherst (#5)	*Christopher Newport (ORV)
2017	Babson (#3)	Augustana (#18)	*Whitman (#9)	*Williams (no votes)

*tied for 3rd

Preseason poll points
  per Final Four
2000:    750
2001:  1064
2002:    620
2003:    839
2004:  1604
2005:  1028
2006:  1644
2007:  1676
2008:  1529
2009:    680
2010:  1068
2011:  1473
2012:    579
2013:  1205
2014:  1934
2015:  1206
2016:    863
2017:  1093

[Pat Coleman]

There's a function here of not only the voters getting the right teams, but also the bracket being set up to give the right teams the chance to get there.

[Gregory Sager]

True, which mitigates the ability of the pollsters to ever hit the top four on the nose without overemphasizing regionality. But, especially in recent seasons in which the committee has shown some flexibility and creativity with the bracketing, that's becoming less of an issue.

I was actually more curious about the misses -- the ORVs and the no-votes -- when I decided to make this chart than I was with how close to the top the Final Four teams that were in the preseason poll had been slotted.

[redman822]

Who back in December thought Babson was terribly overrated? 

Not me.  It's hard to overrate a team with Joey Flannery.

But more to the point, who three weeks ago thought Augie could come within one point of the title?!

Actually, they were two points from the title, games can't end in a tie... 

But honestly, not many people would have seen that as a possibility...

[gordonmann]

Here's the Final Top 25 poll.

http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/2016-17/final

[gordonmann]

Thanks to a lot of heavy lifting by Dave McHugh and the inspiration of David Collinge, we have a new resource for the Top 25 entering next season.

http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/archive

[WUPHF]

Thanks to a lot of heavy lifting by Dave McHugh and the inspiration of David Collinge, we have a new resource for the Top 25 entering next season.

http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/archive

So, this is awesome!

Thanks Dave...and David and Gordon.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Thanks to a lot of heavy lifting by Dave McHugh and the inspiration of David Collinge, we have a new resource for the Top 25 entering next season.

http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/archive

So, this is awesome!

Thanks Dave...and David and Gordon.

You are welcome. I plan to add some interesting tidbits, milestones in the coming weeks.

[hopefan]

Nary a single ranking for my SLIAC men        

Who else is in that "unmentioned" club?   Oh my gosh... NO ONE...

Every other conference had at least that one bright moment when a member made the rankings....  the President's Conf had its Bethany, the CCC had its Endicott, the Liberty had its Hobart, the NAC had its Husson, the UMAC had its Northwestern...

But the SLIAC, well......   Never.....  Which goes along with our winless record in the NCAA tourney, though a couple of "close but no cigar" experiences. 

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

To add to your misery, the former GSAC even had a member make the Top 25. I know... rubbing salt in the wounds. Sorry.

[HOPEful]

Thanks to a lot of heavy lifting by Dave McHugh and the inspiration of David Collinge, we have a new resource for the Top 25 entering next season.

http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/archive

So, this is awesome!

Thanks Dave...and David and Gordon.

Agreed! This is really cool... A few takeaways

1. The MIAA has a decent shot to join the list of teams with every member having been ranked. Olivet is the only team that hasn't, and expectations are high for the Comets after adding ex Oregon Duck Trevor Manuel this off-season.

2. The CCIW has 7 different teams that have been #1 during this time period and NONE of them won it all.

3. If you go by seasons ranked during this time period, Christopher Newport is the "best" team to have never achieved #1. If you go by times ranked, that honor goes to Franklin and Marshall.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Yep - Gordon mentioned a few of those... my favorite was the WIAC was the first to see all of its teams ranked and they did it, I think, in the first three or so years of the poll!

[y_jack_lok]

Nary a single ranking for my SLIAC men        

Who else is in that "unmentioned" club?   Oh my gosh... NO ONE...

Every other conference had at least that one bright moment when a member made the rankings....  the President's Conf had its Bethany, the CCC had its Endicott, the Liberty had its Hobart, the NAC had its Husson, the UMAC had its Northwestern...

But the SLIAC, well......   Never.....  Which goes along with our winless record in the NCAA tourney, though a couple of "close but no cigar" experiences.

I think Fontbonne was receiving votes some years ago when they had Fogarty, Storandt, Fournie, McCoy, Branch (?), Trevor White (?), etc. Guess they never made it to #25. On the women's side Webster was ranked in 2001-02.