Top 25 talk

[Titan Q]

Nice work, Q, but I'm not praying Whitewater wins this week and Superior isn't in the WIAC anymore. 

Thanks, Greek.  And let me clarify.  As a guy looking to sort out the Central Region, I seek clarity.  But as an IWU fan, I hope all of the teams in your league up there beat the daylights out of each other...and would love to see UWW lose that game to a team with 5 losses already!

[Greek Tragedy]

Nice work, Q, but I'm not praying Whitewater wins this week and Superior isn't in the WIAC anymore. 

Thanks, Greek.  And let me clarify.  As a guy looking to sort out the Central Region, I seek clarity.  But as an IWU fan, I hope all of the teams in your league up there beat the daylights out of each other...and would love to see UWW lose that game to a team with 5 losses already!

Ha! The feelings are mutual! I want to see all the CCIW teams beat up on each other to benefit the WIAC.

[Titan Q]

Ha! The feelings are mutual! I want to see all the CCIW teams beat up on each other to benefit the WIAC.

Probably safe this will happen in both leagues...looks like it's already in progress.

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (Complete)

The men's games wrapped up a little earlier than usual today.

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	625	Whitman	15-0	def. #3 Whitworth, 91-75; def. George Fox, 117-63
#2	530	Augustana	12-3	LOST to Wheaton (Ill.), 81-86; def. Carroll, 66-62
#3	512	Whitworth	13-2	LOST at #1 Whitman, 75-91; def. George Fox, 89-77
#4	479	Williams	12-3	LOST to #44 Tufts, 63-69; def. Bates, 79-68
#5	473	UW-Whitewater	13-2	won at UW-Eau Claire, 78-65; def. UW-Stout, 69-55
#6	461	Washington U.	12-2	def. Brandeis, 84-56; def. New York University, 113-75
#7	459	UW-River Falls	11-3	def. #27 UW-Platteville, 91-84; LOST at #13 UW-Oshkosh, 58-67
#8	458	York (Pa.)	15-0	def. Penn State-Harrisburg, 88-78; def. T#33 Christopher Newport, 79-69
#9	452	Swarthmore	13-2	won at McDaniel, 80-49; def. Johns Hopkins, 79-70; LOST at #22 Franklin and Marshall, 68-74
#10	359	Wittenberg	15-0	won at Wabash, 72-58; won at T#35 Wooster, 86-75
#11	352	MIT	14-1	def. Emerson, 83-69; won at Wheaton (Mass.), 91-65
#12	349	Lycoming	16-1	def. #38 Albright, 86-85; won at Arcadia, 79-75
#13	345	UW-Oshkosh	13-2	def. UW-Stout, 89-66; def. #7 UW-River Falls, 67-58
#14	306	Wesleyan	11-3	LOST at #18 Hamilton, 70-76; won at Amherst, 70-66
#15	287	St. John's	12-1	won at Carleton, 69-68; won at T#39 Augsburg, 85-75
#16	258	Middlebury	11-3	def. Morrisville State, 85-64; def. Bates, 82-76; def. #44 Tufts, 78-63
#17	249	Ohio Wesleyan	11-4	LOST to Hiram, 79-88; won at Allegheny, 110-48
#18	219	Hamilton	14-0	def. #14 Wesleyan, 76-70; def. Connecticut College, 102-77
#19	115	Marietta	12-3	won at Mount Union, 78-57; won at Heidelberg, 75-62
#20	111	Emory	12-2	def. Carnegie Mellon, 82-77; def. Case Western Reserve, 91-59
#21	84	Wartburg	11-4	def. Luther, 73-51; LOST at Simpson, 81-86
#22	77	Franklin and Marshall	13-2	LOST at Muhlenberg, 80-82; won at Washington College, 82-73; def. #9 Swarthmore, 74-68
#23	70	John Carroll	13-2	def. Otterbein, 122-66; won at Wilmington, 105-97
#24	59	Eastern Connecticut	13-2	def. Mass-Dartmouth, 101-77; won at Southern Maine, 90-52
#25	56	Baldwin Wallace	12-3	LOST to Ohio Northern, 73-80; won at Otterbein, 79-66

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	55	New Jersey City	12-3	def. Stockton, 81-67; LOST at T#35 Ramapo, 84-85 OT
#27	48	UW-Platteville	13-2	LOST at #7 UW-River Falls, 84-91; def. UW-La Crosse, 63-62
#28	46	St. Norbert	12-3	won at Illinois College, 73-63; LOST at Monmouth, 67-70 OT
#29	40	Juniata	13-2	def. Goucher, 64-53; LOST at Drew, 74-75
#30	39	Skidmore	9-4	LOST at Vassar, 59-67; won at Rochester Tech, 77-76 OT; LOST at Hobart, 74-89
#31	25	Rochester	11-3	def. Case Western Reserve, 90-71; def. Carnegie Mellon, 68-56
#32	23	Illinois Wesleyan	12-3	won at North Park, 76-75
T#33	13	Christopher Newport	11-4	won at Southern Virginia, 83-58; LOST at #8 York (Pa.), 69-79
T#33	13	Nichols	12-2	won at Curry, 100-68; def. Salve Regina, 90-64; won at Wentworth, 72-65
T#35	11	Ramapo	12-4	won at Rowan, 86-76; def. #26 New Jersey City, 85-84 OT
T#35	11	Wooster	11-4	def. Allegheny, 79-58; LOST to #10 Wittenberg, 75-86
#37	10	Salem State	12-3	def. Fitchburg State, 80-63; won at Framingham State, 77-38
#38	9	Albright	11-4	LOST at #12 Lycoming, 85-86; LOST to Messiah, 100-101 3OT
T#39	7	Augsburg	11-4	won at St. Thomas, 62-52; LOST to Bethel, 67-78; LOST to #15 St. John's, 75-85
T#39	7	Buena Vista	12-3	won at Dubuque, 96-87; LOST to Loras, 80-82
T#39	7	Emory and Henry	14-1	def. Roanoke, 75-73; won at Hampden-Sydney, 86-75
T#39	7	Hanover	11-4	def. Earlham, 90-54; won at Anderson, 81-74
#43	4	Nebraska Wesleyan	13-2	LOST at Loras, 87-97 OT; def. Dubuque, 103-94
#44	3	Tufts	12-4	won at #4 Williams, 69-63; LOST at #16 Middlebury, 63-78
#45	2	Lebanon Valley	11-5	LOST to Arcadia, 82-94

[AndOne]

One thing to note: Massey right now is running further behind than usual. Results updates normally run a couple of days behind, but right now I don't see anything updated for the entire week. I don't know why that is.

Looks to me like Massey is updated through last night?  https://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=cb2018&sub=11620

As of this second, it looks like the last results Massey has posted are for games played on 1/6/18.

[Ralph Turner]

One thing I appreciate about Logan Hansen's work on football is that he acknowledges his algorithm isn't perfect, and he's working to make it better there are still times where he picks against his algorithm - or at least I thought he did.

Catching up on the boards... (Day jobs are a mixed blessing!)

Here are the standings of the Final ASC Pick'ems for 2017. Hansen was used as one of the indexes (plus Atomic Football, Bornpowerindex and Lazindex). I have also used the projections of the pre-season rankings from Kickoff since the beginning.

Notice how Kickoff and Hansen tied and Atomic Football was the best INdex.

Bornpowerindex won the week. GillCJ1 swallowed his Purple Pride to competitive instincts to edge into a first place tie with crufootball. Crufootball noted that the humans beat the indexes (altho' the authors of the indexes are really great guys). I also want to point out that Kickoff made the predictions for the entire season in August, when it came out.  I encourage all fans to buy a copy of Kickoff next season.

crufootball   111   0   0
GillCJ1   111   1   1
Atomic Football   110   0   0
BornPowerIndex   109   1   2
Ralph Turner   108   1   1
Gray Fox   107   0   0
Kickoff   106   0   0
FCGrizzliesGrad   106   0   1
HansenRatings   106   1   1
LazIndex   103   0   0
baddog   103   1   1
Chess4Me   86   0   0
DesertCat1   77   0   0
Jmancru   65   0   0
Jayhawkdaddy   50   0   0

[Ralph Turner]

Nice work, Q, but I'm not praying Whitewater wins this week and Superior isn't in the WIAC anymore. 

Thanks, Greek.  And let me clarify.  As a guy looking to sort out the Central Region, I seek clarity.  But as an IWU fan, I hope all of the teams in your league up there beat the daylights out of each other...and would love to see UWW lose that game to a team with 5 losses already!

Ha! The feelings are mutual! I want to see all the CCIW teams beat up on each other to benefit the WIAC.

... and why I would have no trouble with 8 of the 25 teams coming from the CCIW and the WIAC

[gordonmann]

I watched a lot of the Wittenberg/Wooster game yesterday and was really impressed with Witt.  They have all of the pieces - a really good big guy (6-9), great perimeter play, and some great intangibles (just a level of toughness about them I guess).

Wittenberg is easily a Final Four-caliber team.

Ditto.

[Greek Tragedy]

Nice work, Q, but I'm not praying Whitewater wins this week and Superior isn't in the WIAC anymore. 

Thanks, Greek.  And let me clarify.  As a guy looking to sort out the Central Region, I seek clarity.  But as an IWU fan, I hope all of the teams in your league up there beat the daylights out of each other...and would love to see UWW lose that game to a team with 5 losses already!

Ha! The feelings are mutual! I want to see all the CCIW teams beat up on each other to benefit the WIAC.

... and why I would have no trouble with 8 of the 25 teams coming from the CCIW and the WIAC

8 of 25 teams?

There's 21 Pool C teams this year, if that's what you're referring to. I'm not sure though...

[Ralph Turner]

Nice work, Q, but I'm not praying Whitewater wins this week and Superior isn't in the WIAC anymore. 

Thanks, Greek.  And let me clarify.  As a guy looking to sort out the Central Region, I seek clarity.  But as an IWU fan, I hope all of the teams in your league up there beat the daylights out of each other...and would love to see UWW lose that game to a team with 5 losses already!

Ha! The feelings are mutual! I want to see all the CCIW teams beat up on each other to benefit the WIAC.

... and why I would have no trouble with 8 of the 25 teams coming from the CCIW and the WIAC

8 of 25 teams?

There's 21 Pool C teams this year, if that's what you're referring to. I'm not sure though...

No, 8 of the CCIW/WIAC Teams on a Top 25 Ballot.

Just remembering the machinations of the Committee Deliberations for Pool C, I can imagine 3 or 4 of the 21 Pool C bids coming from the Central Region alone.

[sac]

Just remembering the machinations of the Committee Deliberations for Pool C, I can imagine 3 or 4 of the 21 Pool C bids coming from the Central Region alone.

They had 3 last year  Whitewater, Augustana and Oshkosh.    Though Oshkosh was outside the norm for previous Pool C bids with 10 losses.

[Greek Tragedy]

Nice work, Q, but I'm not praying Whitewater wins this week and Superior isn't in the WIAC anymore. 

Thanks, Greek.  And let me clarify.  As a guy looking to sort out the Central Region, I seek clarity.  But as an IWU fan, I hope all of the teams in your league up there beat the daylights out of each other...and would love to see UWW lose that game to a team with 5 losses already!

Ha! The feelings are mutual! I want to see all the CCIW teams beat up on each other to benefit the WIAC.

... and why I would have no trouble with 8 of the 25 teams coming from the CCIW and the WIAC

8 of 25 teams?

There's 21 Pool C teams this year, if that's what you're referring to. I'm not sure though...

No, 8 of the CCIW/WIAC Teams on a Top 25 Ballot.

Just remembering the machinations of the Committee Deliberations for Pool C, I can imagine 3 or 4 of the 21 Pool C bids coming from the Central Region alone.

The fact that this is the TOP 25 board, I probably should've guessed that instead...

[me]

One thing to note: Massey right now is running further behind than usual. Results updates normally run a couple of days behind, but right now I don't see anything updated for the entire week. I don't know why that is.

Looks to me like Massey is updated through last night?  https://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=cb2018&sub=11620

Massey ratings always get a full update on Monday mornings. Sometimes results get updated between that (it seems). I'm not sure what the schedule is with his code except that Mondays by about noon are the most up-to-date.

And so it is. And there are some...surprises. Even to me.

[me]

Not nearly as crazy as the new poll, though.

East Coast bias is strong with this one.

Fortunately the selection committee showed last year they have more regard for strength of schedule than the poll voters. Unfortunately they can't balance out the brackets to really expose the difference in quality.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Not nearly as crazy as the new poll, though.

East Coast bias is strong with this one.

Fortunately the selection committee showed last year they have more regard for strength of schedule than the poll voters. Unfortunately they can't balance out the brackets to really expose the difference in quality.

Of course you have to trust the SOS number.  Massey has JCU at 37 right now - they've played only four marginally decent opponents - I'd argue it's really only been two - I just included the other two because JCU lost to them.  If that's the 37th best schedule, I'm very confused.

Maybe it's a strange year and that's properly rated, but it feels odd not to be able to trust the 37th best schedule at this point.