Top 25 talk

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Here is my ballot for this week: http://bit.ly/2GuMa2f

[nescac1]

Interesting to see Wesleyan ranked a good bit down from Hamilton and Williams in your poll (and also in the poll as a whole) when I see those three teams as essentially dead-even.  I feel like Wesleyan is a bit under the radar this year relative to how well they have played, and most NESCAC observers (including me) seem to believe that, while the conference semis are just about a four-team toss-up, Wesleyan is probably the team to beat in NESCAC and the NESCAC squad best equipped for a deep tourney run ... Wesleyan has a lot of impressive wins on its resume: beating Amherst twice, Middlebury twice, Williams (splitting with the Ephs in two OT games, these two teams could not possibly be more evenly-matched), Nichols, and Tufts.  I'd certainly put them above Salem State (which has feasted on a never-good but atypically-horrible MASCAC this year).

Wesleyan has won eight out of nine and in its three losses since January 5th, Kevin O'Brien missed two of them and barely played in the third.  In fact, Wesleyan has lost only one game in which O'Brien started (the second Williams game).  His numbers aren't really reflective of his impact since he played limited minues in a number of games while recovering from a mid-season illness, but he now seems all the way back.  O'Brien is critical to what Wesleyan does on both ends.  He is the team's second-best overall defender and top guard defender but more importantly the whole offense runs through him when he is on the floor, and the Cards don't have anyone else who can come close to replicating his role as a creator (Austin Hutcherson comes closest but is only a frosh and still a bit up and down).  Against Midd this past weekend he had a vintage game: 17 boards, 9 boards, 7 assists, and 2 steals, outplaying (on paper) national assist leader and likely all-American Jack Daly.   Believe me, nobody wants to play the Cards right now as they can lock absolutely anyone down on defense.  That being said, no one would be surprised if Amherst beat them at Saturday, especially in Lefrak which is a very tough place to win. 

[Pat Coleman]

(I am glad to have a former D-3 National Champion contending in the post-season again.)

Nebraska Wesleyan has never won the national championship. The Prairie Wolves (ne Plainsmen) have finished second on one occasion (1997) and third on three others (1985, 1986, and 1988).

My bad! Of course the Sagerman would recall the 1985 game!  +1 to Sager!

And I certainly remember the 1997 game (being IWU's only title)!

From reading it in the alumni magazine months later. We all know.

Well, if you had started this site earlier ...

Tell me what your internet access was like in 1997!

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

First off all... I could put every team from 6 downward in a bowl, mix them up, and pick a different order and I wouldn't be happy. For weeks I have said how I could rank them all on the same spot if I could. Don't put that much stock in the difference.

That said, I don't have as much confidence in Wesleyan despite what they have done in recent weeks. I don't put as much stock in the wins over Amherst, Middlebury, or Tufts as you do - especially since all three are off my ballot.

Also, I would love to bring Hamilton and Williams down, but I just haven't found the right spot for them ... see that top paragraph again.

Finally, yeah Salem State might be high. I am torn with them as well. They keep winning, but I do agree I could have them too high. That said, they at least have a pretty good out of conference schedule as well.

BTW - we talked about Wesleyan in the Top 25 chat we linked to on Hoopsville Sunday. You are welcome to hear me talk more about the Cardinals there. You may not like it, but ...

[nescac1]

Believe me, I take no offense to your take on Wesleyan -- certainly not a team I root for!  Just one that I would fear if I was playing them right now.  Amherst is playing very well right now (much better than their W-L record) and Wesleyan manhandled them two weeks ago.  The NESCAC tourney this weekend may clear some things up.  But more likely, it will continue to be a muddle (like it seems much of the Top 25 after the very top group) of good-but-not-elite squads who on any given night can look spectacular or mediocre.  I truly believe that depending on match-ups NESCAC has five teams who could just as easily make a run to Salem or get knocked out in the first round. 

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Believe me, I take no offense to your take on Wesleyan -- certainly not a team I root for!  Just one that I would fear if I was playing them right now.  Amherst is playing very well right now (much better than their W-L record) and Wesleyan manhandled them two weeks ago.  The NESCAC tourney this weekend may clear some things up.  But more likely, it will continue to be a muddle (like it seems much of the Top 25 after the very top group) of good-but-not-elite squads who on any given night can look spectacular or mediocre.  I truly believe that depending on match-ups NESCAC has five teams who could just as easily make a run to Salem or get knocked out in the first round.

You may have that confidence... I do not. I do realize it will depend on the brackets, but I think the NESCAC is a bit more exposed this year and will have tougher battles. I think last year was the hint at this when two NESCACs lost in the opening round (Amherst and Wesleyan). Granted, there is too many unknowns for me to be sure, but I am not sure we see a NESCAC in Salem this year.

As for your Amherst comment, I do realize they are playing better, but I still don't think the Wesleyan game two weeks ago is in the conversation. I think the Amherst light went on after that game. Too many inconsistencies in this conference to buy into any strength. That could also be said across the board this year in all conferences which has made voting a challenge.

[nescac1]

Two lost in the first round ... but then the other three made deep tourney runs.  I agree however that it is unlikely for there to be a few NESCAC teams like Midd and Williams who easily storm through the early rounds of action, no one at the top of the league is quite that good, hence why I think there could be some upsets.  But I also think that there are four teams playing very well right now (all I'd say better than last year's Wesleyan and Amherst teams at this time of the year) and a fifth (Middlebury) that has shown the ability to do so and could easily get back on track, and as you note there is SO much parity and SO many question marks throughout the entire country that NESCAC is hardly unique in that regard. 

I would not like any NESCAC squad's chance against, say, Wash U. or Whitworth right now.  But most likely, they will mainly be playing vs. teams in New England, Mid-Atlantic, South, New York and the Atlantic ... and it doesn't seem like ANY squad from any of those regions has really been playing like any sort of powerhouse ... but loads of them are quite solid.  Which is why I think any of five NESCAC squads are easily capable of a fairly deep run, or a very early exit. 

[Swish3]

Here is my ballot for this week: http://bit.ly/2GuMa2f

Read your ballot and saw where you had CNU at #24...strictly out of curiosity, what were you expecting from CNU this season?  Personally, I wasn't sure what to expect...I knew Carter and McFarland would be back to carry the load, but beyond them, there wasn't anyone else that was proven.  That said, when Carter went out, I was pretty concerned...for the Captains to be in the position they are is a testament to the players and coaches.  As you mentioned, some kids that were less experienced had to mature more quickly...and, no, CNU definitely isn't better than they were the last two years, but they're coming around, knock on wood!

Also, do you recall how far into the segment you and Ryan talked about CNU?

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Here is my ballot for this week: http://bit.ly/2GuMa2f

Read your ballot and saw where you had CNU at #24...strictly out of curiosity, what were you expecting from CNU this season?  Personally, I wasn't sure what to expect...I knew Carter and McFarland would be back to carry the load, but beyond them, there wasn't anyone else that was proven.  That said, when Carter went out, I was pretty concerned...for the Captains to be in the position they are is a testament to the players and coaches.  As you mentioned, some kids that were less experienced had to mature more quickly...and, no, CNU definitely isn't better than they were the last two years, but they're coming around, knock on wood!

You are welcome to look back at my preseason stuff.. I thought with Carter and McFarland back that CNU would be a Top 25 squad most of the season and lead the CAC from start to finish. The injuries and such all season really took their toll. Saw them in person at YCP and wasn't blown away. They had some nice pieces that were coming together and I took note of that. They have gotten stronger from that point, but I really didn't think they would be caught in the muck of of the conference this season.

[toad22]

First off all... I could put every team from 6 downward in a bowl, mix them up, and pick a different order and I wouldn't be happy. For weeks I have said how I could rank them all on the same spot if I could. Don't put that much stock in the difference.

That said, I don't have as much confidence in Wesleyan despite what they have done in recent weeks. I don't put as much stock in the wins over Amherst, Middlebury, or Tufts as you do - especially since all three are off my ballot.

Also, I would love to bring Hamilton and Williams down, but I just haven't found the right spot for them ... see that top paragraph

Finally, yeah Salem State might be high. I am torn with them as well. They keep winning, but I do agree I could have them too high. That said, they at least have a pretty good out of conference schedule as well.

BTW - we talked about Wesleyan in the Top 25 chat we linked to on Hoopsville Sunday. You are welcome to hear me talk more about the Cardinals there. You may not like it, but ...

My perception of the NESCAC is quite similar to your perception of the top 25 (except for the top half dozen or so). I don's see any super teams in the NESCAC. Williams would be pretty super if Kyle Scadlock hadn't torn his ACL, but there is no accounting for the injury bug. I do think that the two best teams are Williams and Wesleyan. Wesleyan is scarily hard to play offense against. When their offense is decent, they are very tough. As nescac1 says, Kevin O'Brien makes them go. As for Williams, they have the two best scorers in the NESCAC this year, and a very tough defense. They can play very well in slowdown, defensive struggles, or in high scoring shootouts. It will be fun to see what happens this weekend. I do think that all four teams are pretty close.

[Swish3]

Here is my ballot for this week: http://bit.ly/2GuMa2f

Read your ballot and saw where you had CNU at #24...strictly out of curiosity, what were you expecting from CNU this season?  Personally, I wasn't sure what to expect...I knew Carter and McFarland would be back to carry the load, but beyond them, there wasn't anyone else that was proven.  That said, when Carter went out, I was pretty concerned...for the Captains to be in the position they are is a testament to the players and coaches.  As you mentioned, some kids that were less experienced had to mature more quickly...and, no, CNU definitely isn't better than they were the last two years, but they're coming around, knock on wood!

You are welcome to look back at my preseason stuff.. I thought with Carter and McFarland back that CNU would be a Top 25 squad most of the season and lead the CAC from start to finish. The injuries and such all season really took their toll. Saw them in person at YCP and wasn't blown away. They had some nice pieces that were coming together and I took note of that. They have gotten stronger from that point, but I really didn't think they would be caught in the muck of of the conference this season.

I guess I was a little more guarded, even assuming those two were healthy...CNU is young overall, and I wasn't sure who else might step up.

[Mr. Ypsi]

And I certainly remember the 1997 game (being IWU's only title)!

From reading it in the alumni magazine months later. We all know.

Well, if you had started this site earlier ...

Tell me what your internet access was like in 1997!

Touche'!  Internet was basically inaccessible from home (dial-up modem and so slow it wasn't worth it), but had very good (by 1997 standards) access at work.  But, yeah, probably a pretty low population of potential users back then.

[rlgyank]

Welcome to the Boards. Neb Wes was off the radar for so long.  The voters probably don't have a real handle on them yet. This is by far the best NebWes team in years.

While this is a nice storyline, Ralph, the voters pay more attention than this. Dave has already spoken at length about this but I'll boil it down. Here's what a voter sees when looking at Nebraska Wesleyan's resume:

Nov. 17   7:30 PM   at North Central (Minn.) (7-18) •   W, 122-84
Nov. 18   5:00 PM   at Northwestern (Minn.) (13-12) •   W, 78-67
Nov. 24   7:00 PM   Iowa Wesleyan (5-20) •   W, 117-54
Nov. 25   5:00 PM   Bethany Lutheran (17-8) •   W, 95-78
Four games to open the season against the UMAC, the worst conference in the region.

... removed the GPAC team. Glad it's just one non-Division III opponent.

Dec. 10   12:00 PM   at Austin (4-21) •   W, 92-67
Dec. 17   2:00 PM   at Gallaudet (9-16) •   W, 99-77
Dec. 18   7:00 PM   at Marymount (8-17) •   W, 87-46
Dec. 30   4:00 PM   at Grinnell (13-11) •   W, 121-103

Is Grinnell the best non-conference team NWU faced?

With a non-conference slate like this, and an average (to below-average) conference, it's hard to get onto too many ballots.

I won't/can't defend the non conference schedule, it has not turned out to be very good, as I said in my original post.

As far as the IIAC being an average or below average conference, all I can say is you are a tough grader. The IIAC is the 3rd rated conference in the Massey ratings, the 2nd rated conference in the Hero sports ratings, and basically tied for the 4th rated conference using the rpi ratings. That is out of 43 conferences. I am glad you weren't my accounting teacher in college.

[Pat Coleman]

And I certainly remember the 1997 game (being IWU's only title)!

From reading it in the alumni magazine months later. We all know.

Well, if you had started this site earlier ...

Tell me what your internet access was like in 1997!

Touche'!  Internet was basically inaccessible from home (dial-up modem and so slow it wasn't worth it), but had very good (by 1997 standards) access at work.  But, yeah, probably a pretty low population of potential users back then.

You could have learned about it on my predecessor site. Here it is from archive.org:
https://web.archive.org/web/19970815024939/http://www.cua.edu:80/www/athl/cac/mpairs.htm

[Pat Coleman]

Here's details from back in the day.

http://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/men/1996-97/contrib/20180220r5ojh2
http://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/men/1996-97/contrib/20180220tz68xr