Top 25 talk

[Titan Q]

The gap between Oshkosh and the rest of the WIAC is embarrassing.

La Crosse finished 3 games back and they lose four starters and their top 3 scorers.

Platteville was a further 2 games back, lose their top scorer but return 3 starters.

Point tied Platteville but lose four starters.

Eau Claire finished 7-7, lose three starters, but return four of their top five scorers.

Quick rough guess would be Platteville #2 because they return a lot and La Crosse #3 because they've recruited really well.

Whitewater hasn't been relevant for a couple of years now, so maybe they're due?

[Reconsiders WIAC #2 and #3 placeholder spots.]

Thanks, Greek.  Thinking I will put Platteville in, at like #25...and then just see how things play out once the season starts.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I know they might not have been big stats guys, Bob, but Amherst did lose three post players.  They're bringing in a good class with size, but it's should definitely be a consideration that they'll have to look different on the floor.

[Titan Q]

I know they might not have been big stats guys, Bob, but Amherst did lose three post players.  They're bringing in a good class with size, but it's should definitely be a consideration that they'll have to look different on the floor.

Agree, Ryan.

I am not 100% sure yet on the order of Amherst and Middlebury, but I am thinking both are somewhere in the top 7 ish.  Seems to me both will be great.

[Grutte Dirk]

No M.I.A.A. ... have we fallen so far?

[Titan Q]

No M.I.A.A. ... have we fallen so far?

At least temporarily, it appears so.

The MIAA didn't have a team in the final D3hoops.com poll in 2018-19 or 2017-18.

https://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/2018-19/final

https://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/2017-18/final

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Don't forget Yeshiva.  They're doing an early season trip down the Eastern Shore, so I'm going to get to see them in person!

[WUPHF]

Washington U - St. Louis (17-8 overall, 10-4 UAA)
* Gone: n/a
* Back: Jack Nolan, 6-1 Jr. G (16.1 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 2.4 apg); Justin Hardy, 6-5 So. F (14.6 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 3.0 apg); Matt Nester, 5-11 Sr. G (10.7 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 3.6 apg); Hank Hunter, 6-8 Sr. C (10.2 ppg, 7.3 rpg); DeVaughn Rucker, 6-5 Sr. F (8.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg); Jonathan Arenas (5.8 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 3.2 apg, UAA defensive player of the year candidate).

Added one player.

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

Washington U - St. Louis (17-8 overall, 10-4 UAA)
* Gone: n/a
* Back: Jack Nolan, 6-1 Jr. G (16.1 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 2.4 apg); Justin Hardy, 6-5 So. F (14.6 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 3.0 apg); Matt Nester, 5-11 Sr. G (10.7 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 3.6 apg); Hank Hunter, 6-8 Sr. C (10.2 ppg, 7.3 rpg); DeVaughn Rucker, 6-5 Sr. F (8.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg); Jonathan Arenas (5.8 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 3.2 apg, UAA defensive player of the year candidate).

Added one player.

(Players noted below in "gone" and "back" averaged 8.0+ PPG last season.  Obviously each team has other important lost/returning players, but that's where I drew the line for this analysis.)

[WUPHF]

Reprimand noted.

The 8 points per game minimum as applied to the 2007-2008 and 2008-2009 preseason discussion of Washington University would have resulted in the exclusion of Cameron Smith who would go on to make the UAA all-association team both seasons despite averaging a mere 5 points per game.

The player I mentioned averaged 20 minutes per game last season.

I am not going to fault anyone who takes the time and effort to draft a thoughtful post on the boards, so no need for anyone to offer an explanation.  I get it.  But at some point, it might be helpful to fill in the blanks.

[Titan Q]

I certainly don't mind people adding to the returning player list.  I just had to draw the line somewhere for my own sanity -- that work took about 3 hours and I didn't want it to take 4.

I will say that I generally think the 8+ mark paints a pretty good picture in terms of what teams lost and return (certainly not perfect).  I think it is assumed that every team has role/complementary players not listed.

[WUPHF]

I was definitely operating under the assumption that every team mentioned will include role players and that a line has to be drawn. For evaluating this particular team, it is helpful to move that line behind Jonathan Arenas.

[Titan Q]

I was definitely operating under the assumption that every team mentioned will include role players and that a line has to be drawn. For evaluating this particular team, it is helpful to move that line behind Jonathan Arenas.

If I just rank Wash U as my preseason #1, are we good (no line adjustments needed)?

[Gregory Sager]

Hey, Tom, since you run all of the contests here, tell us: Who had Q in the First Snarky Comment of the 2019-20 Season pick'em pool?

[WUPHF]

I am going to retreat quietly to the ghost town otherwise known as the UAA thread...

Incidentally, the exclusion of senior Cameron Smith might have meant the difference between preseason No. 1 and preseason something else 11 seasons ago so...

[CollegeGolf18]

Who are the legitimate candidates for the Preseason Top 25 that are not on this list?  Would be great to start identifying those.

For example, Wash U - I think they belong.

Wabash should be. Finished 21-6 last year with a young roster.

Returning starters:
G: Jack Davidson, JR., 25.1 PPG - 26 GS
G: Connor Rotterman, JR. 7.3 PPG - 15 GS (stopped starting at midyear)
G: Tyler Watson, So. 9.4 PPG - 11 GS (started to start at midyear)
F: Alex Eberhard, Sr. 6.7 PPG - 27 GS
F: Harry Hallstrom, Sr. 12.6 PPG - 26 GS
W: Kellen Schrieber, So. 8.9 PPG - 5 GS (started in place of injuries)

Wabash averaged 86.2 points a game last year and only lose 8.7 PPG to graduation/transfers.
Senior wing Ben Stachowski started 24 games and scored 3.8 points a game
Senior post Logan White played in 26 games scoring 2.1 a game
Sophomore Conner Brens played in 25 games scoring 1.9 a game (not playing)
Freshman Niah Williamson played in 4 games scoring 0.8 a game (transfer, I believe for football)

The starting 5 will likely be

PG: Jack Davidson - JR
SG: Tyler Watson - SO
SF: Kellen Schreiber - SO
PF: Alex Eberhard - SR
C: Harry Hallstrom - SR

First couple guys off the bench will likely be: Connor Rotterman - JR, Jayden Edwards - SO, Colten Garland - SR
Players who can easily come off the bench but not likely in the top 8 are: Matt Chinn - JR, Parker Manges - SR

All of the above is based off of last year.

HOWEVER

Wabash has a very, very good freshman class and I would not be surprised in the least to see these two/three freshmen play huge minutes. They all were highly sought after (all had D1 interest).

Justin Hensley - 6'4 G
Ahmoni Jones - 6'4 G/W
Reis Thomas - 6'3 W/F (football player so he'll be working his way in)
Cam Chadd - 6'2 G (transfer in, sophomore)

They also have as incoming freshmen:

Jeremy Norvell - 5'10 G
Ty Bever - 5'11 G
Nate Butts - 5'9 G
Tristan Bufkin - 6'5 F
Trey Waddups - 6'1 G (I believe is a sophomore who didn't play last season)

This is going to be a team that plays very fast as they only have one true post player. They have a ton of guys who can slide down and play the five, however. Going to be a great year in Crawfordsville.