Top 25 talk

[PoppersMacsLive]

Yeshiva does not run PnR...

Can we pump the brakes on Yeshiva just a little? I understand it's a great story and I understand that they have put together a great few years but the 2020 tournament getting cancelled has artificially boosted all 16 teams that were still in the dance. For all we know, Yeshiva might've been pasted by Randolph-Macon and we would think totally different than how we do now. Their best regular season win in 2019-20 was a 13-12 Williams team and they beat WPI in a game that got approved for play an hour before tip off and was the first game in the US to be played without fans.

I only say all of this to remind everyone how different the last 2 seasons have been and that a lot of what we're basing these predictions off of is a bunch of nothing.

You sound like Q, before he started watching them.

Williams has had Yeshiva on the schedule since 2017 so I would actually say I've watched them for longer than most. They are a great team and I am glad to see the board recognizes concerns similar to the ones I have. If anything, I think based on the talk around Leifer in particular, people aren't watching him/them enough as his numbers severely overrate him as a player, although they probably still capture his impact. But when you are the only person on your team who goes for rebounds and you hold the ball at the top of the key for 20 seconds every possession, your rebound and assist numbers are going to be pretty good. I felt like Simcha Halpert was a better player than Leifer and a much more important player than he got credit for, because of his able to shoot off the catch and off the dribble, while being their only real PnR threat.

I guess I'm overthinking it a little as there are more question marks nationally than ever more and they are certainly a surer thing than most.

[SpringSt7]

Okay their offense does not feature heavy PnR but that doesn't mean it never happens and it also doesn't mean they didn't still lose a guy who shot 44% from 3 on heavy heavy volume.

[PoppersMacsLive]

To clarify: Yeshiva has run 0 pick and rolls in the last four years.

Okay their offense does not feature heavy PnR but that doesn't mean it never happens and it also doesn't mean they didn't still lose a guy who shot 44% from 3 on heavy heavy volume.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I'd agree that Leifer's numbers detract from one's ability to see his real value. His understanding of positioning and where the ball needs to be is way ahead of most d3 bigs. He's got footwork and size that's also pretty rare.  As Q said, he's not had to play much against similarly skilled, larger guys, so that's still the big question mark.

I don't think Yeshiva would be passing out of the high post so much if Leifer weren't so good at it.

The numbers are gaudy because they play fast and he never comes out, but they're not too far diminished against good teams, either.

I think we're all hoping for what we missed out on in 2020, which is a chance to see Yeshiva against a clear Top 10 team. I'm planning to be there in person Dec 30th to finally find out what it looks like.

[nescac1]

I think Titan Q'a top 25 looks solid.  I have no squabbles at all.  Here are my list of sleepers, teams that mostly do not warrant inclusion based on recent performance but I think have the potential to make a big leap forward.  I bet at least a few end up in the top 25, even if they don't start off there:

Augsburg, Wooster, Nebraska Wesleyan, Redlands, Muhlenberg, Cornell, Williams, and super deep sleeper Salve Regina

[PoppersMacsLive]

I just messaged Delshawn Jackson—he says that everybody is back (meaning Powell—the big guy—is back) and fully healthy.

USJ belongs in the Preseason Top 10 discussion.

I would not sleep on WPI and especially St Joe's.  They hung with Yeshiva twice with their best player out, seemingly injured. They have basically the same group of guys (other than maybe their big guy not sure) from 2020, now will all be seniors, and each year seem to bring in 1-2 interesting transfers.  They could be pretty loaded this year and their backcourt is absolutely legit.  No one can match up with both those guys. 

My pre-season New England ranking based on what we know to date (not a ton) goes Tufts, WPI / St. Joes, Brandeis, UMass Dartmouth, Amherst, Williams, Colby, Babson.  Something like that ...

[nescac1]

Good intel Poppers!  Given that, St Joes is a top ten team.  They are gonna be really really tough this year with a slew of seniors who have been playing big minutes together for four years now.  And obviously very well-coached.

[PoppersMacsLive]

Is this rough ranking of NE teams under the assumption that Garrett Stephenson is back? I have no clue if he's pulling a Leifer-esque move, but his LinkedIn indicates that he's graduated from WPI and is working full time at HP. If he's not back, I would surely think Brandeis slots in ahead of WPI, right?

I would not sleep on WPI and especially St Joe's.  They hung with Yeshiva twice with their best player out, seemingly injured. They have basically the same group of guys (other than maybe their big guy not sure) from 2020, now will all be seniors, and each year seem to bring in 1-2 interesting transfers.  They could be pretty loaded this year and their backcourt is absolutely legit.  No one can match up with both those guys. 

My pre-season New England ranking based on what we know to date (not a ton) goes Tufts, WPI / St. Joes, Brandeis, UMass Dartmouth, Amherst, Williams, Colby, Babson.  Something like that ...

[SpringSt7]

Garrett Stephenson is not back but they return most of their team and replace him with maybe the highest ranked recruit in New England since Duncan Robinson in John Adams.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Garrett Stephenson is not back but they return most of their team and replace him with maybe the highest ranked recruit in New England since Duncan Robinson in John Adams.

I think John Adams died in 1826.

[PoppersMacsLive]

Thanks. I'm just struggling to see how WPI can be considered better on paper (which is what this specific discussion pretty much is given the fact that neither WPI nor Brandeis played last year) than Brandeis given the fact that WPI graduates their glue guy and go-to defender (Wisniewski) as well as their first choice offensively (Stephenson) from a team which did not finish Top 25 in 2019-20. Maybe I'm underrating the talent of their supporting cast from 2019-20 and recent recruits.

Garrett Stephenson is not back but they return most of their team and replace him with maybe the highest ranked recruit in New England since Duncan Robinson in John Adams.

[SpringSt7]

I think the logic would be that Lowther turns into an all-league guy and they get a healthy Reid Walker back, plus some of their other 5th year seniors. I think they have Downing and McNamara back. They would also qualify to me as a team that maybe shouldn't be that high up in a preseason top 25 but with their pedigree + a weaker NEWMAC you just know they're going to win 20 games anyways.

[BaboNation]

I think the logic would be that Lowther turns into an all-league guy and they get a healthy Reid Walker back, plus some of their other 5th year seniors. I think they have Downing and McNamara back. They would also qualify to me as a team that maybe shouldn't be that high up in a preseason top 25 but with their pedigree + a weaker NEWMAC you just know they're going to win 20 games anyways.

I think this is pretty accurate.  Arguably no team was hurt more by the Covid year than senior-laden WPI.  Until their roster is finalized it's very hard to gauge how good they'll be with all they've lost thru graduation.
I've been impressed with Lowther from day 1.  He's an example of why recruiting rankings aren't always what they purport to be.  I do expect a weaker NEWMAC this year. 

[Ralph Turner]

Garrett Stephenson is not back but they return most of their team and replace him with maybe the highest ranked recruit in New England since Duncan Robinson in John Adams.

I think John Adams died in 1826.

July 4, 1826, 50 years after the Declaration of Independence. Both John Adams and Jefferson died on the same day. Jefferson supposedly died first.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Garrett Stephenson is not back but they return most of their team and replace him with maybe the highest ranked recruit in New England since Duncan Robinson in John Adams.

I think John Adams died in 1826.

July 4, 1826, 50 years after the Declaration of Independence. Both John Adams and Jefferson died on the same day. Jefferson supposedly died first.

And Adams' last words were "Jefferson remains." Which pretty much sums up the life of John Adams.