Top 25 talk

[WashedUp1]

I always thought top 25 was at that time of the vote, not looking forward or who is hot or not.
On WPI I would say they are somewhere in the middle in this argument. They have been dominant in their conference but as the NPI shows it does not value their conference that highly nor did the committee last year and the year before. I believe they were regular season champs, or tied, lost in conference playoffs and did not receive a bid the last 2 years. I believe both years they started in top 25 but by regular season end they were not. Both years only 1 team made NCAA out of the NEWMAC. This year unless they lose the conference championship, which is very possible, only 1 team gets in. This year not sure they're out of conference schedule was that good except tufts, who they did beat, but they lost to Suffolk on neutral court. No matter what they are in NCAA, but I don't view them as a contender for final 4. Since 2007 they have made it past the 2nd round once and been in the NCAA like 10 times. How many of those years were there multiple bids.
So I think they are close but not blue blood, as they haven't really had the benefit of blue bloods, as they have had good records and then don't make NCAA.

And that was my only call out - the descriptor "blue blood." When someone says a blue blood you think of programs like Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, UNC, etc.

Coach Bartley does a great job recruiting & coaching his guys up. They just don't compete on the national stage the way that other schools do on a consistent basis.

Or at the D3 level I would say UW-Whitewater, UW Stevens Point, Williams, Amherst, Randolph-Macon and schools that regularly have reached Final Fours across multiple eras.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I just meant to refer to teams you can reliably count on to be decent.  Even if WPI has a couple down years, you can usually believe your eyes when they look good.  The opposite example of this might be Easter, this season.  Many of us thought they were going to be quite good and it turns out they've struggled mightily.  It's going to be hard to trust your eyes there in a way it never will be with WPI.

I'd also argue, with 420 programs, if you're consistently in the Top 25-40 programs year in and year out, you're a blueblood.

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (Complete)

One result (Trinity-Texas vs. Colorado College) pending.


Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	623	Wesleyan	25-0	def. Amherst, 65-58
#2	596	New York University	23-1	def. Carnegie Mellon, 77-61; def. Case Western Reserve, 83-55
#3	581	UW-Platteville	23-2	won at UW-Whitewater, 78-62; def. UW-River Falls, 85-44
#4	510	Randolph-Macon	22-3	def. #31 Virginia Wesleyan, 80-59; won at Randolph, 109-54
#5	493	UW-La Crosse	21-4	won at UW-River Falls, 86-79; def. UW-Stevens Point, 74-60
#6	473	Trinity (Conn.)	22-3	def. Colby, 77-56
#7	434	Emory	19-5	won at #32 Chicago, 77-72; LOST at #18 Washington U., 75-85
#8	428	Hampden-Sydney	21-4	def. Eastern Mennonite, 95-78
#9	390	Trine	21-4	won at Kalamazoo, 81-49; LOST at #20 Calvin, 53-70
#10	386	Christopher Newport	21-4	won at Mary Washington, 72-58
#11	365	Illinois Wesleyan	20-5	def. North Park, 87-81; LOST at Augustana, 76-85
#12	362	St. John's	22-3	def. Augsburg, 110-63; won at Bethel, 89-62
#13	317	Tufts	21-4	def. Williams, 80-70
#14	286	Redlands	22-3	def. Chapman, 97-73; won at Whittier, 83-79
#15	275	Whitworth	22-3	LOST at Whitman, 63-79; won at Linfield, 72-71
#16	265	Wisconsin Lutheran	23-2	def. Concordia (Wis.), 90-59; won at Lakeland, 87-84
#17	243	WPI	23-2	won at Springfield, 58-52; def. Wheaton (Mass.), 92-56
#18	193	Washington U.	19-5	def. Rochester, 78-48; def. #7 Emory, 85-75
#19	178	Denison	22-3	LOST to Wooster, 72-75; won at Ohio Wesleyan, 67-62
#20	133	Calvin	19-6	won at Albion, 74-47; def. #9 Trine, 70-53
#21	115	Gustavus Adolphus	21-4	LOST at Carleton, 61-73
#22	94	Cal Lutheran	21-4	def. T#34 Claremont-Mudd-Scripps, 68-63; won at Caltech, 80-50
#23	90	Roanoke	21-4	def. Ferrum, 75-73 OT; def. Apprentice School, 92-64
#24	73	Trinity (Texas)	21-4	LOST at #25 St. Thomas (Texas), 69-81; won at Colorado College, 83-76
#25	56	St. Thomas (Texas)	23-2	def. #24 Trinity (Texas), 81-69; def. Schreiner, 63-61

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	46	Carthage	20-5	def. Elmhurst, 83-71; won at Millikin, 84-77
#27	42	Drew	22-3	def. Elizabethtown, 96-87; won at Susquehanna, 83-55
#28	24	Keene State	20-5	def. Mass-Dartmouth, 100-90; LOST at Rhode Island College, 66-67
#29	20	John Carroll	20-5	won at Heidelberg, 76-71; def. Muskingum, 90-84 OT
#30	16	Belhaven	21-4	LOST to #33 Maryville (Tenn.), 72-77
#31	7	Virginia Wesleyan	19-6	LOST at #4 Randolph-Macon, 59-80; won at Lynchburg, 75-66
#32	5	Chicago	17-7	LOST to #7 Emory, 72-77; def. Rochester, 89-68
#33	3	Maryville (Tenn.)	20-5	won at Covenant, 107-86; won at #30 Belhaven, 77-72
T#34	1	Catholic	21-4	won at Goucher, 78-61; def. Lycoming, 91-60
T#34	1	Claremont-Mudd-Scripps	18-7	won at Caltech, 90-68; LOST at #22 Cal Lutheran, 63-68; won at Chapman, 74-63
T#34	1	Franklin and Marshall	19-6	won at Dickinson, 69-53; won at Gettysburg, 64-59

[WPI89]

I was in Worcester a week ago Saturday - and both WPI's final 8 teams were honored.  It was a fun afternoon.  I think WPI (under Bartley) for the last 20 years has been the model of consistency.  They must be top 10 (maybe top 5?) in total wins over that span.  However, I think you need to mix in a few final 4s and have at least 1 championship to be a Blue Blood.

No issues calling them a premier D3 basketball school - but Blue Blood means National Championships to me.

[nescac1]

WPI has to be on the short list for "best overall D3 program never to make a Final Four."  Tufts, Whitworth, Hamilton, St. John's (MN), Maryville, Emory, and Johns Hopkins are some other that come to mind (and many of these schools have a shot at it this year!), but I think WPI has to be the most consistently strong program to have fallen JUST short. 

Best D3 program never to have won a title would also be an interesting list, of course ... maybe Hampden-Sydney, F&M, Augustana, Wooster or Hope? 

[Pat Coleman]

I would trim that to F&M, Wooster and Hope. Hampden-Sydney has had a couple of big peaks of competitiveness but they were practically two decades apart. Augustana I could see in there especially with the historical aspect, though.

[ziggy]

WPI has to be on the short list for "best overall D3 program never to make a Final Four."  Tufts, Whitworth, Hamilton, St. John's (MN), Maryville, Emory, and Johns Hopkins are some other that come to mind (and many of these schools have a shot at it this year!), but I think WPI has to be the most consistently strong program to have fallen JUST short. 

Best D3 program never to have won a title would also be an interesting list, of course ... maybe Hampden-Sydney, F&M, Augustana, Wooster or Hope? 

Over the offseason we took a look at the "Top ten D3 programs of all-time" list inspired by a point-based system used by CBSsports.com a few years ago to make a D1 program ranking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj0aCV_uEZM

F&M was tops in the list among programs without a championship, followed by Augustana, Wooster and Hope.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

WPI essentially had a Final Four level team three years ago, they just bracketed with Randolph-Macon.  They got smoked like everyone else, but they hung with RMC as well as anyone and definitely matched up favorably against everyone else remaining.  Sometimes it's just the way the bracket works.

[nescac1]

Yeah, hitting RMC at any time is generally bad luck.  But for terrible luck with the COVID interruption just as RMC was peaking, we might be comparing this current RMC run to the Bo Ryan Platteville teams in terms of pure dominance, and I'm convinced Josh Merkel could have just as much success if he ever moves up to D1.  Kind of stunned a strong D1 program hasn't recruited him away (though maybe he is happy dominating D3 in perpetuity). It doesn't really matter who graduates or if they seem undersized or too young or lack depth in a particular year, they are at a minimum nearly impossible to score on year after year, and when the roster is full of veterans, good luck. 

2019: 27-4, one point loss in Sweet 16
2020: 28-2 (only one D3 loss), and probably the favorite to win the title before COVID
2021: 12-0, another loaded team that could have won the title
2022: 33-1, a one-point road loss to CNU short of a perfect season, maybe the most dominant D3 tournament run ever
2023: 29-2, number one for most of the year, tough loss in the Sweet 16
2024: 25-5, lost in the Sweet 16 in a "down" year
2025: 22-3, currently on a 19-game winning streak and looking poised for another deep tourney run

[y_jack_lok]

^^^ Nice summary there. In that 2020 28-2 season the two losses were to Mary Washington and Guilford. There was a third loss in a pre-season exhibition game to D1 University of Richmond.

Yellow Jacket fans all hope Coach Merkle is happy at RMC and chooses to remain for a long time. I heard him say several years ago, I think in an interview with Dave McHugh, that he likes being at RMC. Hopefully nothing will change that -- not even a lucrative D1 offer.

[WashedUp1]

Yeah, hitting RMC at any time is generally bad luck.  But for terrible luck with the COVID interruption just as RMC was peaking, we might be comparing this current RMC run to the Bo Ryan Platteville teams in terms of pure dominance, and I'm convinced Josh Merkel could have just as much success if he ever moves up to D1.  Kind of stunned a strong D1 program hasn't recruited him away (though maybe he is happy dominating D3 in perpetuity). It doesn't really matter who graduates or if they seem undersized or too young or lack depth in a particular year, they are at a minimum nearly impossible to score on year after year, and when the roster is full of veterans, good luck. 

2019: 27-4, one point loss in Sweet 16
2020: 28-2 (only one D3 loss), and probably the favorite to win the title before COVID
2021: 12-0, another loaded team that could have won the title
2022: 33-1, a one-point road loss to CNU short of a perfect season, maybe the most dominant D3 tournament run ever
2023: 29-2, number one for most of the year, tough loss in the Sweet 16
2024: 25-5, lost in the Sweet 16 in a "down" year
2025: 22-3, currently on a 19-game winning streak and looking poised for another deep tourney run

Beyond being a great coach, he is a great person as well. One of my all-time favorites. I too am a bit surprised that a mid-Atlantic low-major hasn't tried to woo him away yet but a lot of coaches will tell you you don't mess with happy!

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I've talked to Merkel, not about him moving to D1, but about D3 coaches doing it in general, and he said, "the only benefit is the money," referencing all the other headaches that come with contemporary D1 basketball.  So, I suspect, so long as he and his family are happy and comfortable in Ashland, he'll probably stick around.

[ronk]

 And if he needed any more disincentives, I would think the increasing factor of NIL in D1 would provide it.

[Gregory Sager]

I would trim that to F&M, Wooster and Hope. Hampden-Sydney has had a couple of big peaks of competitiveness but they were practically two decades apart. Augustana I could see in there especially with the historical aspect, though.

Augustana is 44-19 in D3 tourney play, and those 44 wins put Augie in the top five all-time in tourney victories. Augie's .698 winning percentage in the tournament is in the top ten all-time for programs that have played at least ten D3 tournament games. Augie has appeared in six Final Fours, which is tied for third-best all-time. And the Rock Islanders have played in four national championship games (and lost them all, of course; they're the Buffalo Bills or the Minnesota Vikings of D3 men's basketball); that ties them with Williams, UW-Oshkosh, UW-Platteville, UWSP, and Wittenberg behind only North Park for second place in that important category. And let's not overlook the fact that Augustana and Wittenberg are the only programs in D3 men's basketball that have reached the Final Four in four different decades, or that Augie and Witt are the only programs in D3 MBB that have played in a national championship game in three different decades.

(Wittenberg has a similar pedigree to Augie's, except that the Tigers have actually won a national championship. Among other things, Witt is tied with Hope for the most D3 tourney appearances, each having had their ticket to the dance punched 30 times. But I can see why people would omit Witt from these blueblood conversations, given that since the COVID stoppage Witt is only four games above .500 with zero D3 tourney appearances.)

Anyone who's going to indulge in this dubious "who's a D3 men's basketball blueblood and who isn't?" exercise has to admit that Augustana is one of the best programs to never have won a title.

[ronk]

 And I witnessed 1 of those Augie Final 4 losses in the '76 semi to eventual champ Scranton(over Witt).