Top 25 talk

[Titan Q]

Hopefully people will post thoughts on the Top 25 teams/candidates they see. 

I saw #4 UW-Whitewater play this weekend at the UW-W Tip-Off Tourney, where there were knocked off in the title game by Illinois Wesleyan in overtime.  Like every good WIAC team I've ever seen, the 2006-07 Warhawks are huge.  Their frontcourt starters are 6-5 Mark Anderson, 6-7 Mike Toellner, and 6-8 Andy Freund.  Big guys off the bench include 6-6 Billy Kolinske, 6-4 Rob Perry, 6-6 Kori Vernon, and 6-9 Dustin Mitchell.  UW-W doesn't list weights on their roster, but these guys are all wide shouldered and strong (6-4 Perry plays 6-7).  They are also athletic, not just big, slow space-eaters.  When you see Whitewater in the layup line, you think you're watching a mid-major Division I team.

To play with Whitewater, a team will have to have a lot of size and athleticism.  Illinois Wesleyan's big guys are not as tall or wide as Whitewater's, but they are extremely athletic -- 6-4 Darius Gant had 8 rebounds, 6-6 Andrew Freeman pulled down 10, and 6-7 Zach Freeman had 14 boards.  (Amazingly, IWU actually out-rebounded Whitewater 47-28.)  A small/unathletic Division III team would just get manhandled by the Warhawks.

As big as they are, I'm not sold that UW-Whitewater is a Top 5 team though.  I am also not sold they will win the WIAC, as they are picked to do.  With 2005-06 WIAC player of the year Jeremy Manchester (point-guard) graduated, they're really lacking a go-to guard.  They have decent guards, but but not great.  Whitewater also seems to be lacking something intangible -- not sure if it's chemistry or killer instinct or what, but I didn't feel like I was watching a Final Four type team.  A lot of that is certainly due to the fact that I saw them play Game 2 of the season and they are working in several new players, but I just feel like they are missing something.

UW-Whitewater is a really good team, but probably should be ranked in the 10-15 range.  Again, it wouldn't surprise me if they go on to finish 2nd or 3rd in the WIAC regular season.  After winning at #17 Carroll this weekend, if UW-Stevens Point wins at #13 Lawrence Tuesday I'd probably start to think the Pointers are the early season favorite in the WIAC.  We'll see.

[John Gleich]

Titan Q,

A few WIAC thoughts...

As I posted in the CCIW page right after the UWW/North Park HERE, as well as on the WIAC page after the initial ratings went out, I felt (and still feel) that UWW's rating was inflated.  In short, many of the questions that North Central will have to figure out are the same ones that Whitewater will.  Even if their guards (like Riley) are seniors, they don't have a ton of experience, especially when the game is on the line.  For Whitewater to take the next step, they need their point guard to be able to step up and hit free throws, not miss the last 5, which would have either sealed the game, or demanded a miraculous play from IWU.  The point guard is the guy who you want to have the ball in their hands at the end of the game (the assumption being that they are the best ball-handler), so to request that your point guard is a clutch free throw shooter shouldn't be too much to ask, especially for an elite team.

It really makes me think back to Duke a few years ago with Jason Williams... for a while there, he was downright miserable at free throws, especially when the game was on the line.  Now Duke was talented enough that they still were able to get the W... but Jason Williams brought more to the game, and his team, than Gio Riley does (or at least has) for WW.  Perhaps this is asking too much early in the year, but championship teams find a way to win and do the things they NEED to do... they limit mistakes, take advantage of the other team's mistakes (what it sounds like happened in the first half).  It doesn't really seem like Whitewater played terribly throughout.  Despite Riley shooting 1-7 from the line, the Warhawks still shot 73% from the line.  Perhaps what I mentioned above (the PG being the go-to guy late in the game) is what caused UWW's downfall.  It wasn't that they didn't create opportunities, causing 31 IWU TO's.

Your point about UWSP is a good one, IMO (and I'm not just playing the homer).  Point is still really young (two seniors, three juniors) but it is the players that they do have that really are key.  Krull has started since he was a freshman.  He was what really turned Point around half way through the year after SP dropped 3/4 games in 2004 and has started ever since.  He's showed flashes of what is possible (scored 25 during the National Semi final as a freshman, 20+ in the National Championship game as a soph) and routinely comes up with key plays (too many to mention... just a few, a key steal for a bucket in crunch-time during the '04 Elite 8 game at UPS against Lawrence, the huge bucket over Trinity (TX)'s big 6'10" stud Sean Devins in '05 to keep Point in the game in the Elite 8 game).  This is an underclassman taking it upon himself to carry the team.  It's not totally unheard of, but it's something that has propelled him to his current level... he's been in the trenches and leads by example.

PG Steve Hicklin is another player who was thrust in a tough position, going from third string to starting in the playoffs when Tamaris Relerford was hurt in '05 and he played tremendous against Puget Sound, who throws everything but the kitchen sink at teams.  He had 3 assists to just 2 turnovers, hit 9/9 from the line and scored 15 points.  He added 2 more assists and three points (1/1 from the line) in the Elite 8 game against Trinity, and then in the Final 4, he had 8 assists to one TO, was perfect in the Championship (including hitting a huge three to secure the lead for Point going into the half that set the tone for the dominating second half).  So, in 4 starts, he was 13/14 from the line, 13-5 assist to TO ratio and lead Point's defense which held the last four opponents to an average of 56 pts per game.

All of these stats are great, however, when you have two All-Americans and a host of upperclassmen as supporting characters.  But last year, these guys led Point (along with two lone seniors) to a good year... where freshmen played the majority of the minutes.  And what is most amazing is that Point led the country in free-throw percentage (only 2 D-1's were better) and TO's, averaging just over 10 (only 3 D-1's were better).  This team is going to do nothing but get better... but Point's downfall may come in their lack of an inside presence.  As I said Point lost two posts in Bauer and Bouche to graduation and return just two true posts.  But they found ways to win last year against the WIAC's huge teams... so I think that the future is bright!

[Gregory Sager]

Whitewater also seems to be lacking something intangible -- not sure if it's chemistry or killer instinct or what, but I didn't feel like I was watching a Final Four type team.  A lot of that is certainly due to the fact that I saw them play Game 2 of the season and they are working in several new players, but I just feel like they are missing something.

They are definitely missing something, all right ... free throws at the end of games. 

[njlincolnlion]

I was impressed with F&M's "pounding" of Widener in the consolation game of the F&M's Tip-Off Tournament since Lincoln beat Widener in OT in the first round.  Lincoln shook off the "opening game jitters" soundly defeated Del. Valley by 19 ponts in the champioship game.  This was the same Del. Vallet team that had an easy win over F&M in the opening round.  I would suspect that Lincoln would move up in the pools with some of the other pre-season ranked teams losses in in week 1.

[David Collinge]

Hopefully people will post thoughts on the Top 25 teams/candidates they see. 

Second-ranked Wooster opened the season at home, hosting a tournament with three less-than-spectacular teams.  Without threatening opposition, it's dangerous to draw many conclusions about the Scots, but here's my observations from the top of the bleachers.

Friday's game against Cabrini was little more than a practice session, but it was a great practice.  Wooster ran away early and hid, ringing up a 128-71 shellacking.  Eleven different Scots contributed to 25-45 shooting from the arc, with All-American candidates James Cooper (24, 6 of 9 from arc) and Tom Port (19, 5 of 7 on treys) leading the way.  On defense Wooster forced 26 turnovers, including 11 steals, and held the Cavaliers to 45% shooting (30% from deep).

On Saturday, the Scots played with much less enthusiasm and style, and still easily dismissed Mt. Union, 85-60.  Cooper contributed another 20 points, but the key to the game was tournament MVP Tim Vandervaart, who had his way inside, scoring 22 on 9 of 10 shooting.  Vandervaart, an undersized 6'6"/210 center, scraps and battles and plays well beyond his size, and has a spin move that is all but unstoppable.  Although he tends to be overshadowed by his All-America teammates, he has been named all-conference each of the last two seasons, and his play may be the most important factor in determining how far the Scots will advance this spring.

The Scots' rotation seems to be the eight returning lettermen (4 of them returning starters) plus one plebe forward, 6'6"/245 Craig Elam.  Sophomore Brandon Johnson stepped into the large shoes of 4-year starting PG Kyle Witucky and turned in a performance worthy of tournament Defensive MVP, contributing 11 assists, 8 steals, and 23 points on 7-for-13 shooting from the arc in two games (49 minutes).  James Cooper took over as point guard when Johnson rested, and the offense didn't miss a beat, so that potential problem may not be much of a worry.

Although Cabrini and Mt. Union may not have been much of a measuring stick, the Scots' schedule gets dramatically tougher right away.  On Saturday they travel to Canton, Oh. to play Walsh, the 2005 NAIA-2 national champs who finished ranked #3 at 27-7 and reached the quarterfinals of the NAIA tournament last season.  Walsh is ranked #7 in the preseason NAIA-2 poll.  Then on the following Tuesday, Wooster welcomes Georgetown (Ky.) to Timken Gymnasium.  The Tigers are ranked #8 in the preseason NAIA-1 poll and lost an exhibition game to Louisville at Freedom Hall by a mere 2 points.  The Tigers were 26-8 last season, finishing with a national ranking of #11, and are off to a 6-1 start in non-exhibition games this season.  And looming on the schedule in just over two weeks (Sat. 12/9) is the first of the two regularly scheduled matchups with archrival and tenth-ranked Wittenberg.  By Dec. 10, we should know a lot more about how well Wooster will match up on the national scene.

[BVHawk]

I've got BV on my sleeper list, although I know nothing about them really at all.  I just know they've got history and playoff experience.  They've also got a tough schedule, so we'll know what we've got pretty early on with them.

BV is a young squad still with a lot of talent in the soph class.  They get better as the year goes on and it shows since they've won the last 5 IIAC Conference Tournaments.

[BVHawk]

I saw them last December in the Elmhurst tournament. I was not impressed; they looked like a motley collection of odds and ends that didn't really fit together. They lost by ten to a team of streetballers from Olivet that wound up 6-20 on the season. Then, lo and behold, Buena Vista gets its act together and wins the IIAC tourney and a ticket to the big dance!

I'm still scratching my head over that one, but I'll say one thing about it -- Brian Van Haaften is one heckuva basketball coach.

If you would have told me BV was going to be the AQ in the IIAC last December I would've laughed you out of the gym as well.  Those talented freshmen from a year ago are now sophomores, but I still think we're a year away from making some noise in the NCAA Tourny.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I assume the first regular season poll will be released next Tuesday due to the short week?

[Pat Coleman]

Yep. We found last year that worked well.

[David Collinge]

Happy Thanksgiving to all!

[Greek Tragedy]

Despite the fact that Stevens Point blew a huge lead, I still have a lot of confidence in this team.  As I posted over in the WIAC board, the shots in the 2nd half just didn't fall.  Lawrence's shots off the rim were bouncing in and ours were bouncing out.  I'm not using this as an excuse, but it's just the way the ball rolls sometimes.

Naturally, when a team comes back from a huge deficit, you think that they "clamped down" on defense and shut down the other team.  Though LU's defense did get better in last 10 minutes of the game, Point did themselves in a couple of ways.  They missed some contested layups that they should've made and they made some mistakes that I can't even blame on youth.  Jon Krull made two of these mistakes, dribbling the ball up impatiently and getting the ball stolen from him and also forcing his way into an offensive foul.  Krull wasn't the only one at fault, but these stood out.  Not your normal Pointer play!

The 3-pt shooting has not been good aside from the first 5 minutes of the Carroll game.  8-29 and 3-15 isn't very good.  But, the inside and midrange work of Krull, Hicklin, the outstanding Beamish, Drew Jackson, El-Amin and freshman Matt Moses have been excellent.  Over half of Point's points (38) were in the paint against Lawrence.

Defense, as usual, has been a staple of the two wins as well.  Players such as Shawn Lee, Drew Jackson and Matt Moses have played outstanding defense, as has soph. Beamish and the usual suspects.  Point's defense last night was really good.  20 TOs by Carroll and 14 from a solid Lawrence team.

Point has beaten two very good, 2006 tournament teams on their home floors.  Very impressive.  We get Ripon, the 3rd of the three MWC powers at home this weekend.  I'm looking forward to it.

[David Collinge]

#10 Wittenberg survives a scare at Capital, 73-68 in two overtimes.

[Dark Knight]

#10 Wittenberg survives a scare at Capital, 73-68 in two overtimes.

#5 Ohio Northern, Johnson and Wales (Fla)
#8 Calvin 81, Aquinas 65
#13 Lawrence 89, Wisconsin Lutheran 75
#14 Hope 80, Cornerstone 76
#17 Carroll 86, Colorado-Colorado Springs 105
#18 Christopher Newport 91, Southern VA 87
#20 Occidental, Notre Dame de Namur
#22 Puget Sound 98, Northwest Christian 91

[wooscotsfan]

Final:  #2 Wooster 85  Walsh 68

Wooster notched a solid road win tonight over Walsh University in Canton.  

Wooster was led by North Canton native Tim Vandervaart with a career high 32 points.  James Cooper added 14 points, Devin Fulk had 13 points and Tom Port chipped in 8 points.

Wooster is now 3-0.    Next up is NAIA power Georgetown on 11/28.

Georgetown only lost to D1 Louisville by 4 points (at Freedom Hall) earlier this year so this should be a real test for Wooster.  

GO SCOTS!

[sac]

#14 Hope 76 #8 Calvin 54  at Calvin