Top 25 talk

[Ralph Turner]

...

Thats the problem though, the region is average.  How do teams that are great in the south supposed to schedule great teams in the south if the south is so average.  They have to schedule out of region games.  Luckily for Greensboro they had some out of region teams in the south. aka John Carroll (a quality win)  Oswego State (5-1 at the time and 7-6 now) at CNU.  I couldn't imagine the traveling costs for those games and it would be bad for Greensboro too.  I am not too sure how much weight there is on games out of region for NCAA's, but from what I hear in region games are highly weighted.  Someone correct me if I am wrong.

Pride, your JCU win counted.  The Oswego did not.

The Handbook outlines the states that are in the Geographic Adminstrative Region (#3) that GC is.  Pat is right about the quality of teams that you can schedule as in-region, the OAC, the HCAC, the MIAA, especially.

If you think just numbers, the South should only expect 3-4 teams in the Top 25 anyway, especially when the consensus is that the WIAC, the CCIW, the MIAA, the OAC and the NCAC (especially Woo and Witt) are considered the best conferences.

And Top 25 doesn't mean playoff bids.  (The Top 25, absolutely, emphatically, has no bearing, whatsoever, with the selection process.) There are 19 at-large bids for Pool C, if Greensboro doesn't earn the Pool A bid for the tourney.  I encourage you to read the handbook, cover-to-cover, and then follow the discussion on the Daily Dose and on the Pool C Message Board.   

[golden_dome]

For a very average region among the 8, the South should not expect much more love.  I see Guilford contending for the Conference championship, or trying to get one of the 19 Pool C bids, if they only lose to VWC, here on out.

Thats the problem though, the region is average.  How do teams that are great in the south supposed to schedule great teams in the south if the south is so average.  They have to schedule out of region games.  Luckily for Greensboro they had some out of region teams in the south. aka John Carroll (a quality win)  Oswego State (5-1 at the time and 7-6 now) at CNU.  I couldn't imagine the traveling costs for those games and it would be bad for Greensboro too.  I am not too sure how much weight there is on games out of region for NCAA's, but from what I hear in region games are highly weighted.  Someone correct me if I am wrong.

The NCAA definitely pays little to no attention to out of region games when it comes to regional rankings and tournament selection. All primary criteria used for those selections are in region led by the regional won/loss records and the QOWI. I doubt there are many times selection goes beyond those two factors and even fewer times when secondary criteria comes into play where out of region games can be looked at.

I don't think we can blame the Top 25 voters for penalizing teams in weaker regions if those teams don't venture out to find quality out of region teams but I am sure they understand it is a catch 22 for us. Many teams will take advantage of the expanded regional opponents but expense will probably prohibit many teams from doing it.

Just FYI Region 3 consists of Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, North Carolina, Ohio, Puerto Rico, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia.

[PrideSportBBallGuy]

Maybe I am biased because I despise AU and CNU with a passion.  I don't know and maybe know more then I think, because I never thought AU should have been ranked as high as they were and CNU should have never gotten any votes after having 4 losses. Look what both teams are doing now.

I understand out in the midwest there is some better competition.  (Although it was a team from the south that won it all last year.)  I also didn't think John Hopkins should have been ranked as high as they were.  They aren't in a strong conference and they haven't played many strong teams.  They have played some, but most not good teams.  I know talk alot about what-if's and I know that I am not one that lucky few that get to vote on the poll, so maybe I don't have the right to say anything, but once the regional rankings come out I will be sure to voice my opinion and throw out my very own top 25 poll.  (Let the debate begin then)

I just don't have the time right now to look at all the teams and make a poll yet.

Mr. Turner-
I know the top 25 poll as nothing to do with selection, (I am sure the d3hoops top 25 had many teams left out in years past when the tournament was much smaller.)

I am a very forward thinking person if you can say that.  I don't think anybody should be ranked in any poll during the season if I don't think they can make it to postseason play. Which is why I won't do a "poll" until regional rankings come out.  (I am a fan of GC and this is d3hoops poll not mine.  My poll probably wouldn't have them in it because I don't know what future brings for them.)

[PrideSportBBallGuy]

So since this is d3hoops poll.  Get me a vote for greensboro in the next poll 

[Pat Coleman]

I don't know why regional rankings are relevant to a Top 25 poll. They ignore games between regions, which are only the best games for national comparison.

PSBBG, you can't ignore the fact that Averett beat VWC then had a rash of injuries. The team that played VWC is not the same lineup that you are asking us to "look what (they) are doing now."

[PrideSportBBallGuy]

I don't know why regional rankings are relevant to a Top 25 poll. They ignore games between regions, which are only the best games for national comparison.

PSBBG, you can't ignore the fact that Averett beat VWC then had a rash of injuries. The team that played VWC is not the same lineup that you are asking us to "look what (they) are doing now."

I am just using that to narrow my field down.  i can't sit here and crunch the numbers for the 300 or so (What is the number?) teams.  NCAA thinks they are good then they probably will be the ones more likely to get into the tournament.  example on the women's side with greensboro last year they weren't among the ones listed in the top of the region despite they had a very good record in the region, and hence they were not in the top 25.  You get what I am trying to say.  I am only using it to narrow my field of teams.

That way I can crunch my numbers to create my poll.

[PrideSportBBallGuy]

Pat-

If I could get last years regional rankings.  The last one before selection sunday.  I can give you what my top 25 would have looked like coming into the tournament.

It will take me an hour or so to crunch my numbers and I will share it all with you.

[Pat Coleman]

Check the Daily Dose for last February.

[Ralph Turner]

Mr. Turner-
I know the top 25 poll as nothing to do with selection, (I am sure the d3hoops top 25 had many teams left out in years past when the tournament was much smaller.)

Good.  For the sake of new posters, I wonder if that fact can ever be emphasized enough.

The Regional Rankings will include 58 teams so we can find the Top 25 out of those, and with some degree of consensus.

(I am always interested in anyone's statisitical power rankings.)

Feburary Daily Dose Link

[PrideSportBBallGuy]

Its going to take me a little longer.  Unless anyone can get me the statistics right before the tournament started of all the regional ranked teams.  Otherwise I have to go in and hand and sort the games that were tournament games.

[Pat Coleman]

This is the last rankings the NCAA released:
http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/?p=141

[David Collinge]

Top 25 Schedules and Results, Jan. 8-14 (FINAL):

#1 UW-Stevens Point (14-1) def. Lakeland 97-59 and won at UW-Eau Claire 77-43
#2 Amherst (14-0) won at Wesleyan 76-52, won at Tufts 96-92 (OT), and won at #12 Bates 79-64
#3 St. Thomas (13-1) def. Augsburg 80-63, def. Gustavus Adolphus 74-57, and won at Concordia-Moorhead 68-65
#4 Ohio Northern (12-3) won at Wilmington 63-62 and lost at John Carroll 63-61
#5 Wooster (13-2) won at Allegheny 97-87 and def. Wabash 96-52
#6 Whitworth (14-1) lost to #17 Puget Sound 77-72 and def. Pacific Lutheran 80-56
#7 Virginia Wesleyan (12-2) won at Lynchburg 79-57
#8 Wittenberg (13-2) won at Earlham 71-60 and won at Hiram 72-50
#9 Mississippi College (13-1) def. Texas-Dallas 66-54 and def. Texas-Tyler 66-45
#10 UW-Oshkosh (13-3) lost at #20 UW-La Crosse 48-47 and won at UW-River Falls 69-66
#11 Hope (12-2) def. Albion 94-58 and won at Calvin 65-62
#12 Bates (11-2) def. U. New England 90-46, lost to Trinity (CT) 68-63, and lost to #2 Amherst 79-64
#13 William Paterson (10-5) lost at New Jersey City 56-42 and lost to Ramapo 72-69
#14 Elmhurst (13-1) won at #18 Carthage 72-62 and def. Illinois Wesleyan 76-57
#15 Augustana (12-3) won at #21 Wheaton (IL) 74-69 and def. #18 Carthage 70-54
#16 Washington U. (12-1) won at Case Western Reserve 73-56 and won at Emory 78-73
#17 Puget Sound (12-2) won at #6 Whitworth 77-72 and won at Whitman 102-88
#18 Carthage (9-5) lost to #14 Elmhurst 72-62 and lost at #15 Augustana 70-54
#19 Johns Hopkins (13-2) lost to Haverford 64-59, won at Ursinus 66-50, and def. Muhlenburg 78-58
#20 UW-La Crosse (11-4) def. #10 UW-Oshkosh 48-47 and won at UW-Superior 77-62
#21 Wheaton (IL) (9-5) lost to #15 Augustana 74-69 and won at North Park 73-60
#22 Occidental (9-3) def. Caltech 103-40 and def. Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 71-56
#23 Worcester Polytech (12-1) won at Springfield 82-75, def. Babson 59-53, and won at Clark 77-61
#24 NYU (11-2) lost at Brandeis 52-48
#25 Aurora (12-1) def. Dominican 90-66 and won at Clarke 72-63

As a group, 41-12 (.774), but 6 of those losses (and wins) were against other top 25 teams.  Otherwise, 35-6 (.854).

[gordonmann]

Like Averett, William Paterson is struggling with injuries.  They are missing two starters.

[PrideSportBBallGuy]

For those that are looking for this poll leading up until the tournament of last year.  It is taking longer then expected.  Ralph my statistical formula is 25 spots long on a excel spreadsheet.  I have gotten through about half of the teams right now.

[sludge]

For a very average region among the 8, the South should not expect much more love.  I see Guilford contending for the Conference championship, or trying to get one of the 19 Pool C bids, if they only lose to VWC, here on out.

Grasshopper say, funny very average region produce national champion in tournament, not beauty contest winner.

Grasshopper say, maybe heavy weight on past reputation in past years, big factor?

Grasshopper say, maybe if Averett or Randolph-Macon or Hampden-Sydney be 11-1 with loss only to VWC, they be in top 25.  Neh?

Grasshopper say good thing fate still in hands of players if they make big effort, chop-chop.

Grasshopper say maybe better team is out of top 25, young men work hard, lift eyes towards Heaven.