Top 25 talk

[David Collinge]

#21 Puget Sound is flirting with a third consecutive loss; they trail 7-10 Pacific Lutheran 37-31 with 5:38 left in the first half.  Live stats

[Greek Tragedy]

WLC upsets Aurora 87-82

Wow.  I wish I could say I was impressed with both teams and WLC dug in deep and came out with an impressive win against a solid conference foe...but, I'd be lying.

What a mess.  Now, before I go on my rant, remember this...this is the first time I've seen Aurora play, and the first time this year I've seen WLC play.  Not to be too bias, I'll try not to compare or reference Stevens Point or Oshkosh in my opinion of this game.  For all I know, this could've been the best game WLC has ever played or the worst game Aurora has ever played. 

This site and the Aurora site had the game scheduled for 7:30, while the WLC site had the game set for 7:00.  I got there about 10 after and the game had already started.  Apparently, Aurora missed the TPS Report memo and didn't show up until 7:30 as well. 

Going in, I didn't think I was going to be impressed with WLC, considering I saw them last year against a horrible Eau Claire team...and they lost that one.  I think the first half, WLC basically played on adrenaline.  To paraphrase Swampgoon, "They didn't know where they were going, but they were getting there pretty damn quick."  They were all over the place, usually doubling the ball-handler on defense and launching shots left and right on offense.  They went up 33-22 and it looked all over for Aurora.  But, to their credit, they fought back were down just 40-39 at the break.  After the break, Aurora seemed to slow things down a little bit (or WLC ran out of gas) and they actually took a brief lead before going on a cold spell that they would never recover from.

WLC wanted this game a lot more and they showed it with emotion and hustle.  On the other hand, Aurora must have been reading too much D3hoops because it seemed like they didn't want to be there and WLC should just give them the win.  I wasn't impressed with Aurora at all.  They played literally no defense at times and you could tell coach Lancaster wasn't too happy about it.  There were several ocassions when he would yell, "Watch the back door" and guess what, back door cut = easy lay up.  The defenders rarely  had their hands up or in the face of the ball handlers, making easy passing lanes.  They were slow on help defense, lacking team defense and just overall forgot to play defense most of the time.  There were a couple of times when Aurora turned the ball over and some of the players were walking back on defense with their heads down not even looking at the ball as it flew past them!  Seriously.  Not very disciplined at all, IMO.

I think Aurora would get eaten alive by any team with a disciplined offense like Lawrence.  Any opponent with a big guy in the middle, Aurora would also have problems.  Aurora is not very big with Mike Leonard  (6'6" but thin) and Larry Welton (about the same size) their only "inside" players.  They are very guard oriented and I'm surprised WLC didn't try to pound it inside more with the likes of Nate Sorum (6'7) or Brian Hagel (6'8"), both with more meat than Leonard or Welton.  I know their only other loss was to Edgewood and they have a nice post presence in Averkamp, and a solid forward in De Marco.  Looking at that boxscore, those two ate them up, Averkamp and De Marco combining for 44 of Edgewood's 68 points.  Averkamp also had 19 rebounds!  To compare, nearly any team in the WIAC, even the mid-level ones like Stout (Jacob Nonemacher & Heisler), Platteville (Gossens & when Skemp was healthy) and even La Crosse (Werner is probably WIAC POTY) would just destroy Aurora inside. 

I think Aurora would be better suited against a more up tempo team like IWU, Carthage or Carroll, rather than trying to defend a team like Lawrence or Platteville.  But, with that said, Carthage has a stud in Schlemm...at least from what I saw on Saturday.  IWU does have Freeman, but I don't think he's a "back to the basket" post presence.  He plays more like Leonard or Welton, facing the basket, using their quickness etc, IMO. 

I wasn't impressed with Aurora's guards either.  They had trouble facing in-your-face pressure, shown by their 16 first half TOs (20 total, so they improved drastically) and Darrick Leonard tried to hard to do it all...usually running with his head down and trying to make something out of nothing.  Even without looking at the boxscore, Mike Leonard (#31) was by far the best player Aurora had tonight.  IMO, Larry Welton was nonexistent. 

Apparently trying to keep my eye on Welton and watching Mike Leonard do well underneath, I missed the fact that guard Chad Trudo had a quiet 16 points, 4 asts and only 1 TO.  5-7 FGs including 4-5 from 3.  I guess when Lambert is coughing the ball up four times (seemed like more) and Leonard and Leonard launching 26 shots combined, I missed those 7 Lambert took!  My apologies.

Anyway....that's neither here or there.  Hardly an impressive showing by Aurora.  Since nearly every WIAC team has a good to great post presence and most actually play some sort of defense, I don't think Aurora would have any shot in the WIAC.  Carthage (with Schlemm and quick guards) and IWU (with Freeman in the post) would beat Aurora, from what I saw Saturday and Lawrence (because of their style) and Carroll (with Drury and some good inside players) would also take care of Aurora.  I think Aurora would have a shot at Grinnell, simply because of the up and down pace they play, though their ball-handling skills would come into question against Grinnell's pressure defense. 

Well, this was WAY TOO LONG and I apologize.  I was probably just rambling.  Sorry.

On a side note, the famous "6th Man" was very entertaining and loud the entire game.  They had some funny moments.  There were about 50-75 of them and stood the whole game.  The boxscore said 232, but I swear, they were the only ones there.  I don't even remember the "general public" clapping or cheering, even after WLC upset the #16 team in the nation!

[Titan Q]

IWU does have Freeman, but I don't think he's a "back to the basket" post presence. 

OS, Andrew Freeman is the face-the-basket twin.  Zach (the preseason All-American) has become primarily a back-to-the-basket player.  While he is a very good jump shooter out to about 17 feet, most of his points come from right around the basket.

Nice recap of the game, by the way...thanks.

[Greek Tragedy]

Really, that didn't seem that way on Saturday.  Sure, he gets a lot of looks around the basket, but I didn't have the impression that they "threw it down in the block" to Zach all the time!    Maybe he just ended up facing the basket all the time! lol.  You'd obviously know more than me about that.

[Titan Q]

Really, that didn't seem that way on Saturday.  Sure, he gets a lot of looks around the basket, but I didn't have the impression that they "threw it down in the block" to Zach all the time!    Maybe he just ended up facing the basket all the time! lol.  You'd obviously know more than me about that.

It depends on matchups, of course.  Against a big, strong, physical post player like Brian Schlemm, they like to face Zach up at the FT line where he can shoot the 15 footer, or use his quickness and athleticism to drive to the basket and finish.  But against most opposing post defenders, Zach sets up on the blocks and the ball is dumped down to him.

[David Collinge]

#21 UPS, down 15 with 6:42 left, outscores Pac Lute 23-5 down the stretch to pull out an 89-86 victory.

[Gregory Sager]

Wow.  I wish I could say I was impressed with both teams and WLC dug in deep and came out with an impressive win against a solid conference foe...but, I'd be lying.

OS, I addressed your post at length in the NAthC room (where you had also posted it), and in that post I made the same point as Bob about Zach Freeman. But I also think that you might've drawn some conclusions about Aurora that don't really do justice to the Spartans, based upon seeing them only once in what was almost certainly a very atypical performance by them. I made particular mention of your point about Aurora having problems handling teams with big players, since their trouncing of North Central (an extremely inside-oriented team that has two outstanding big men plus a very capable role-playing big man) earlier this year belies your conclusion about the Spartans.

[Greek Tragedy]

But I also think that you might've drawn some conclusions about Aurora that don't really do justice to the Spartans, based upon seeing them only once...

And that was the key...I'll read up on it.  Thanks.

[Greek Tragedy]

depends on matchups, of course.  Against a big, strong, physical post player like Brian Schlemm, they like to face Zach up at the FT line where he can shoot the 15 footer, or use his quickness and athleticism to drive to the basket and finish.  But against most opposing post defenders, Zach sets up on the blocks and the ball is dumped down to him.

Thanks, that explains Saturday...and I think Freeman wouldn't have had any problem setting up in the blocks, as long as the rest of the IWU team helped out in terms of moving around.

[Gregory Sager]

depends on matchups, of course.  Against a big, strong, physical post player like Brian Schlemm, they like to face Zach up at the FT line where he can shoot the 15 footer, or use his quickness and athleticism to drive to the basket and finish.  But against most opposing post defenders, Zach sets up on the blocks and the ball is dumped down to him.

Thanks, that explains Saturday...and I think Freeman wouldn't have had any problem setting up in the blocks, as long as the rest of the IWU team helped out in terms of moving around.

FWIW, this is standard operating procedure against a powerful big man who is a lot less mobile than whichever big man you have on the floor at the moment, as long as your big man can handle the ball a bit and shoot the midrange shot. When North Park played Carthage last week and Schlemm was guarding NPU's Stephano Jones (a traditional back-to-the-basket center), Jones exclusively posted down low to take advantage of his strengths. But when Jones was out of the game and Schlemm was put on Anthony Lenoir -- a big man who is much quicker than Jones, has good handles, and can hit the midrange shot -- NPU coach Paul Brenegan did with Lenoir what Illinois Wesleyan coach Ron Rose did with Zach Freeman in terms of having him face up against Schlemm farther from the basket.

That doesn't mean that Lenoir can't back people in, because he's very good at that aspect of the game. But he has the skills that allow for other options offensively, and in this instance facing up from midrange was a better option with that particular player (Schlemm) guarding him. I suspect that when other quick-footed big men who can handle the ball and have a good midrange J face Schlemm (e.g., NCC's Anthony Simmons), the strategy employed is the same.

(It also helps that Schlemm is foul-prone and doesn't always move his feet well on defense, as refs are more likely to call a hack or reach-in on a drive to the basket than on a back-in in the low post.)

[keith45]

Is there a D3HOOPS front page curse??

I deserve all the abuse you give..OS and others have been very polite...go ahead, let it out

[Titan Q]

Is there a D3HOOPS front page curse??

I deserve all the abuse you give..OS and others have been very polite...go ahead, let it out

I don't think you're going to get abuse here, Keith.  Your passion for AU is appreciated.

[dman]

Gustavus played in the title game in 2003. Nearly won. Kind of an unfortunate call at the end didn't help.

Pat,
i will be the first person to state that williams was incredibly lucky to win the national championship and had some major breaks go their way.  but to insinuate that the refs had something to do with the outcome of the national championship that year comes across as pretty cheesy.  from my perspective it looked like williams played with poise down the stretch, while ga forgot some of the fundamentals- such as drew demuth stripping their center from outside the 3pt. line so folan could score on a breakaway; tim brown short-arming a put-back; chris tebrake,an 80% freethrow shooter missing 2 with 1:10 to go;  failing to box out on a missed free throw with the score tied and 4 seconds left; folan got that rebound and scored both ft's to win; ga had 2 timeouts left- why didn't they call timeout to ice coffin and then folan??  both fouls that were called were legit, and i actually replayed the tape to refresh my memory.  it is clear that both were good calls and the refs had to call it the way they saw it.  i think the look of disbelief on the ga players is just as much shock at their lead slipping away as it was questioning whether the calls were fortunate or unfortunate.....

[diehardfan]

Is there a D3HOOPS front page curse??

I deserve all the abuse you give..OS and others have been very polite...go ahead, let it out

I concur with Bob, we're not vindictive people, you're not going to get mean spirited comments. I couldn't help but laugh at the irony, and posted as such, but that's just cause I am one of those weird people who are basically always open about what I feel and think. Because of the nice gesture of Larry Welton last season at our opening weekend tourney (if you don't know what I'm talking about, I'll be happy to elaborate), it would be pretty much impossible for me not to have anything but the best wishes for the Aurora program. Besides, DIII needs more committed fans. Those of us who love this sport would be fools to scare those who also love it away.

A bad night doesn't necessarily mean that Aurora is the worst team in the world either. Yes, it sucks when you team loses, and/or they're not playing to potential (I know that feeling this year, I'm a Wheaton fan!) but that doesn't mean that the team deserves to be berated. Aurora is still in pretty good position based on in-region record alone to host a playoff game, and i doubt their loss drops them out of the Top 25 completely... and being a Top 25 team in the nation is nothing to scoff at.

Have confidence in the voters, that's all we were saying. They're obviously human and can't do things perfectly or magically know how everything's going to shake down in advance, but they do know what they are doing.

[Pat Coleman]

dman,

I was seated about 20 feet from the play. I feel confident in what I saw.

All I said was it didn't help. Can you really argue that point? I specifically did NOT say it was the sole cause, or the cause at all, of the loss.