Top 25 talk

[LogShow]

Nothing wrong with being idle...just ask Ohio State football!!

[Ralph Turner]

Greensboro knocked off crosstown rival Guilford.  Front page

Those rivalry games are big!

Guilford now must re-focus, but we South Region teams appreciate the extra in-region loss on Guilford's record!

[LogShow]

as far as the voting goes is there any difference in the voters eyes if a team loses to a D1 as opposed to a D2?  Lewis and Clark (lost to D1 Pacific and won their other 2 games against D3 comp) dropped 4 slots in the polls

[ChicagoHopeNut]

#22 Wheaton 53
#16 Hope       83
Final

It really wasn't that close even. Wheaton had 21 first half turnovers and 33 overall that kept them from having any chance in the game.

[Ralph Turner]

Miss College lost to UMHB at UMHB 90-81 today.  UMHB had control of this game entirely.  UMHB is in the driver's seat at least  until McMurry in late January.  UMHB plays at (beatable)  D-2 University of Incarnate Word (D-2 in San Antonio) on Dec 12th.

[golden_dome]

I put this post on the ASC board about the MC-UMHB game so I thought I would drag it over here.

Ralph, thanks for putting up the score. I told you this was going to be a tough trip playing at tough venues and with so many new players having played just one game. I was actually encouraged we made it a game having shot the ball so poorly. We were #2 nationally in FG % defense last year, so letting UMHB shoot 56% doesn't make me feel good, but I think we can fix that.

Just a few notes from the MC-UMHB game. Biggest early season game I can remember in the league in quite a while with UMHB ranked #9 and MC #23.

Long night for MC shooting as they just couldn't buy a shot and UMHB shot over 50 percent both halves. MC trailed 41-24 at the half after hitting 10-36 shots (27%). MC got back in the game and trailed 69-64 with four minutes remaining, but still shot bad in the second half and hit 28-83 for the game (33%). UMHB was 29-52 from the field (56%).

The Cru were 27-37 from the foul line, MC was 17-24. UMHB sealed the game with 12-13 free throws in the final 3:30. MC outrebounded UMHB 49-40 with 28 offensive boards and actually only had 13 turnovers to 17 for UMHB, but just couldn't score.

Tyler Winford had 20 points and 14 rebounds for the Choctaws. UMHB was led by Tillman Gaddy (23) and Tim Lytle (21). Several new players played well for UMHB, they have another very good team.

I thought MC would have a hard time this week having played just one game entering this week and playing in two tough venues, particularly at UMHB where everyone has trouble. MC actually suffered their only regular season loss two years ago at UMHB when they went 29-2 so losing there is nothing to be ashamed of, especially considering this could be the best team they have had.

I'm really excited about the ASC this year with a some good nonconference wins already. MC has very good players again but with 9 new players in the 12 man rotation, it might be after Christmas when they start to play well together. UMHB is getting a lot of national attention and LeTourneu looks like they picked up where they left off. McMurry, UTD, and Sul Ross also have good teams so far. I wouldn't be surprised if Concordia surprises some people this year, very good athletes on that team.

MC has one game next week, Wesley College, and then hosts McMurry and HSU the next week.

Clarification for those unfamiliar with colleges in Mississippi...

The Wesley College to which Chris refers is the same Wesley College (Mississippi) that upset Miss College in OT in the early season in 2006-07.  -- Ralph Turner

[Mr. Ypsi]

Wow!  With #2-5 all taking a loss, suppose Amherst will be unanimous #1?  And might the UAA get 3 in the top 5?

[atn alum]

2 thru 5 losing....oy vey, starting to look like d1 football

As a voter, I'm prob not gonna punish UWSP too much for a close loss at another ranked wiac. Certainly will keep them top 5, but as for who the heck my other 3 within top 5 are gonna be...it's anyone's guess.

And by the way: Amherst-Brandeis next saturday in potential #1 vs # something good matchup.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

As for Guilford losing... that too was on the road against a very good Greensboro team (despite their battle Friday against Goucher). I don't think Guilford should be punished too harshly - Strong did have 29 points in that game.

As for Virginia Wesleyan, though... I think their loss to a good Roanoke team maybe hurts more and reveals they are not as good a team as many thought.

[Titan Q]

Speaking from a Midwest/"near West" perspective (excluding SCIAC/NWC)...

Coming into the season, I was 100% sold on Wash U being the best team in this part of the country by far.  With their 3 All-American candidates at different positions - 6-3 point-guard Sean Wallis, 6-7 wing Tyler Nading, and 6-6 center Troy Ruths - and impressive depth, I viewed them as clearly the best team in the region and as the national preseason #1.

The injury to Wallis has really shaken things up though.  Now I think we have a number of pretty even teams and no single clear dominant team.  My D3Hoops.com Top 25 ballot tomorrow will probably include the following teams, in this order:

UW-Stevens Point (WIAC) -  I had Stevens Point #7 on my preseason ballot and #4 last week.  Losing on the road in a close game to the team picked #2 in the WIAC isn't much of a negative for me at all.  That game does, however, make me think the Pointers are not a #1/#2 caliber team yet though.  I think this is a very good team, but not as complete as the 2004, 2005 national championship Pointers - this team doesn't seem to have that inside horse.  I'll probably have them near #5 and watch them closely. 

UW-Whitewater (WIAC) - the Warhawks have been on my radar...#19 in the preseason and #17 last week.  This has been a hard team to read the last few years, as Whitewater has disappointed with a lot of talent.  Their home win over Stevens Point yesterday is a sign that they're legit in 2007-08.  I'll probably move them up to the #10 range.

Augustana (CCIW) - I had Augie #11 in my preseason ballot (where I felt good about them) and then due to upsets at the top of the poll in Weeks 1-2, I uncomfortably moved the Vikings up to #7 last week.  I felt I was putting them too high, but this is where they fell for me relative to the teams around them.  Augustana is a solid team that plays tremendous defense, but I believe they're closer to #10 than #5.  Their home loss to UW-La Crosse this week, like their 1st Round NCAA tournament loss to Carroll at home last year, shows how vulnerable they can be.  Again, I'm probably looking at them near #10.  They're clearly the CCIW favorite right now, but I don't think the CCIW has a real national championship contender this year.

Wash U (UAA) - I dropped the Bears to #8 in the last ballot and am trying to evaluate them post-Wallis injury.  This is still a very talented team -- Ruths and Nading are a ton and they have several other very good players as well.  The problem, however, is that Wallis really made this team tick.  They're now starting two pure 2-guards (Aaron Thompson, Danny O'Boyle) and that is always a concern for me...and a 2-pt win over Babson indicates they're clearly not the team they were.  When evaluating Augusutana vs Wash U, keep in mind that Augie beat the Bears by 6 on a neutral court on Nov. 24 (with Wallis out).  I will not rank Wash U ahead of Augustana at this point, so will keep them about one spot below the Vikes on my ballot.

Elmhurst (CCIW) - I moved the Bluejays up from #13 preseason to #12 last week I and feel pretty good about them somewhere in this range, despite their 2-pt loss @ UW-Oshkosh this week.  Elmhurst has one of the best inside/outside combos in the country in 6-9 Brent Ruch and 6-4 Ryan Burks but they're struggling with guard play right now.  Actually, Elmhurst looks a lot like Wash U right now -- great center and great wing with some solid role players, but no true point-guard.  I'll keep them near #15 for now on the strength of Ruch and Burks.  If they don't sort out the ball-handling problems soon though, I'll drop them.

St. Thomas (MIAC) - the Tommies are now 5-1 with wins @ NCAA DII #1 Winona St and @ UW-La Crosse (the team that won at Augustana).  Their only loss is at Wooster, by six.  St. Thomas was picked 3rd in the MIAC preseason poll behind Bethel and Gustavus Adolphus but appears poised to contend for the title.  I had the Tommies #23 last week and may move them up to about #19.

Wheaton (CCIW) - I had the Thunder #20 last week after not including them in my preseason ballot.  This week they won by 2 at home Wednesday over a Chicago team playing without its best player...then got their doors blown off Friday by Hope on a neutral court in a game they played without their 6-8 star center Andy Wiele...and then defeated #15 Calvin at Calvin the next day with Wiele returning and grabbing 17 rebounds.  The Thunder have possibly the best perimeter player in Division III (Kent Raymond), 6-8 Wiele who has become a force, and 2-guard Ben Panner, who was 7-7 from 3 at Calvin...but very little depth after that.  Wheaton is probably right where they should be at #22 and could go either way - need to keep an eye on them.


For now, these are the teams from the Midwest and West (excluding the NWC and SLIAC) that I view as Top 25 teams.  I had Aurora #25 last week, but after seeing them Wednesday @ Millikin I'm confident they're not a Top 25 team right now (they have 2 key players out).  I'm keeping a close eye on several teams, like Grinnell, Lawrence, and Hanover.

We will discuss tonight on Hoopsville.

[John Gleich]

Great post TQ.  I agree with lots of what you said there.

One of the tough things so early on in the season is this:  Which teams really DO deserve to be in the top 5-10?  With so many teams losing that had sat in these spots, it almost has to be a kind of wait and see about who shuffles to the top. 

I had been planning on going to the SP/WW game, but ended up not because of the weather.  It will be very interesting to see what happens with the Warhawks this season.  I'm not sure that they will be able to shoot as well as they did consistently, but from listening to the broadcast, they seemed to have a much more conventional type game, which allows them to use the added athleticism that they always have versus a more conventional team like Stevens Point.

Perry was huge for the Warhawks, and in a league this year with scant few dominant big men, he just may be able to carry the Warhawks this year.  And if the guys around him can take advantage of open shots like they did last night, it could mean trouble for the rest of the WIAC.

[LogShow]

looks like there should be some moving and shaking in the next poll

[David Collinge]

HOW THEY FARED (week of Nov. 26-Dec. 2) (complete)

#   1   Amherst (5-0) def. Emmanuel 99-49, def. Westfield St. 98-49 (at Springfield), and def. WNEC 63-51 (at Springfield)
#   2   UW-Stevens Point (3-1) lost at #20 UW-Whitewater 83-77
#   3   Guilford (2-1) lost at Greensboro 71-66 and won at Lynchburg 101-55
#   4   Augustana (4-1) lost to UW-La Crosse 66-64 and won at Coe 58-45
#   5   Virginia Wesleyan (4-1) lost at Roanoke 68-67 and won at Washington & Lee 68-53
#   6   Rochester (6-0) def. Carnegie Mellon 64-50
#   7   Brandeis (6-0) def. Babson 72-57 and won at Framingham St. 63-59
#   8   Washington U. (5-2) def. Earlham 94-64 and def. Babson 68-66
#   9   Mary Hardin-Baylor (3-0) def. Louisiana College 82-59 and def. #23 Mississippi College 90-81
#   10   Williams (6-0) def. Framingham St. 60-56 and def. So. Vermont 87-38
#   11   Plattsburgh St. (4-0) def. St. Lawrence 84-70 and won at Morrisville St. 111-69
#   12   Puget Sound (5-0) is idle
#   13   Elmhurst (3-1) lost at UW-Oshkosh 88-86 (game vs. Alma PPD. until Jan. 6)
#   14   Wooster (2-2) lost at Cedarville 65-61
#   15   Calvin (4-2) def. Carthage 75-63 and lost to #22 Wheaton (IL) 68-67
#   16   Hope (3-1) def. #22 Wheaton (IL) 83-53 (at Calvin) and def. Carthage 85-75 (at Calvin)
#   17   Brockport St. (2-1) def. New Paltz St. 74-59
#   18   Capital (5-1) won at Ohio Wesleyan 70-68
#   19   Keene St. (5-0) def. Colby-Sawyer 76-60 (at RHIT/Concord, NH) and def. Southern Maine 106-83
#   20   UW-Whitewater (4-0) def. #2 UW-Stevens Point 83-77
#   21   Stevens (6-0) won at CCNY 70-57, def. Alfred 78-53, and def. St. John Fisher 80-65
#   22   Wheaton (IL) (5-1) def. Chicago 75-73, lost to #16 Hope 83-53 (at Calvin), and won at #15 Calvin 68-67
#   23   Mississippi College (2-1) won at Concordia-Austin 99-89 and lost at #9 Mary Hardin-Baylor 90-81
#   24   Rhode Island Coll. (4-1) lost at Fitchburg St. 64-62 and def. Mass.-Boston 81-70
#   25   Lewis & Clark (3-1) def. Walla Walla 95-66

[David Collinge]

Interim version of 'How They Fared'...
None of the current top 25 plays on Monday.  Of those on the cusp who may end up in the rankings, St. Thomas has a Monday game, hosting Hamline.

***UPDATE***
St. Thomas 72, Hamline 64

[ILive4This]

Not sure what this new poll will bring but next saturday should pit two top 5 teams against one another, if not a 1 v 3 match up