Top 25 talk

[sac]

Hope avenges their only loss with a fairly confortable win over NAIA Aquinas. 

Glad you thought it was comfortable, I saw 3000+ today who would disagree.

[sac]

I think its possible both Amherst and Brandeis may not be in the top 5, although unlikely.  We'll see if the voters have the guts to put 7-0 Williams ahead of both.

Hope may(or should) crack the top 10 this week

I'm thinking Capital might be underrated at #15.

[Greek Tragedy]

I think Oshkosh is underrated at not being rated.  They should be coming into this week after taking care of Whitewater.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Hope avenges their only loss with a fairly confortable win over NAIA Aquinas. 

Glad you thought it was comfortable, I saw 3000+ today who would disagree.

At the time, all I had was the score, and a 9-point gap seemed fairly comfortable.  I have since read that few Hope fans were apt to be toasting victory early!

[ILive4This]

Here is my feeling, Brandeis had they not lost to UMD would be Number 1, perhaps even unanimously. However I think with the loss, and the win over Amherst, Rochester gets the number one spot, with a good majority of the number 1 votes. I am shocked that Rochester is not included in the front page poll. The fact that the loss to UMD was in overtime, should not hurt the judges as much had it been in regulation, especially with it being on the road, without deluca and followed up by double digit win over amherst. So a few questions,

With a loss to an unranked team, could Brandeis possibly be ranked below Amherst after beating them. Could they be outside the top 10? My guess...
1. Rochester
2. Stevens Point
3. Brandeis
4. Amherst
5. MHB
6. Williams
....
UMD falls in around 20.

It is also very possible the williams could be as high as 3, but i think that would be a shame as I think they would be handled by Brandeis and Amherst with relative ease.

[Greek Tragedy]

In DC's How They Faired post, I saw that Rochester was #2.  Then I was trying to remember if they were on the front page poll...apparently not.  Ummm.  Naturally, I would guess they would be #1.  I do think, and I'm sure I'll sound like a homer here, that Point has a slight shot at getting the #1 spot back.  They traveled to La Crosse and won by double-digits (though the Eagles aren't nearly as good as last year IMO-did beat Augie on the road this year) and then handled a solid and previously undefeated Lawrence team (a team that is the only challenger to Grinnell in the MWC).

Brandeis, though losing this week, probably won't drop too much since they just beat the #1 team in the nation.  Amherst and Brandeis should still be in the top 5.  Honestly, I would prefer Stevens Point NOT be in #1.

[David Collinge]

Here is my feeling, Brandeis had they not lost to UMD would be Number 1, perhaps even unanimously.

Amherst itself was not the unanimous #1 this week, despite being the only team in the preseason top 8 still to be unbeaten.  I'm quite sure that Brandeis would not be unanimous, either, had they won that game.  My guess is that the new poll will be close at the top, with the #1 votes split closely between Brandeis, Point, and Rochester, but that Rochester will be #1, and would have been #1 even if the Judges were still unbeaten. 

[Titan Q]

Here is my feeling, Brandeis had they not lost to UMD would be Number 1, perhaps even unanimously.

...my guess is that the new poll will be close at the top, with the #1 votes split closely between Brandeis, Point, and Rochester, but that Rochester will be #1, and would have been #1 even if the Judges were still unbeaten. 

I disagree with that, David.  If #3 Brandeis was undefeated with a win over #1, I'm almost positive they'd leapfrog #2 Rochester and be the new #1.  It'd be different if Rochester had a "signature win" of some sort, but I don't think any of these Rochester wins mean that much...

New Paltz State
Oneonta State     
Nazareth     
Cortland State     
Ohio Wesleyan     
Carnegie Mellon     
Hobart

My 12/4 ballot top five was:

1 Amherst
2 Brandeis
3 Guilford
4 Lewis and Clark
5 UW-Stevens Point

I have no idea what I'll do at this point.

[smedindy]

Throw darts! Thankfully, there's a tournament at the end of the season!

[David Collinge]

Here is my feeling, Brandeis had they not lost to UMD would be Number 1, perhaps even unanimously.

...my guess is that the new poll will be close at the top, with the #1 votes split closely between Brandeis, Point, and Rochester, but that Rochester will be #1, and would have been #1 even if the Judges were still unbeaten. 

I disagree with that, David.  If #3 Brandeis was undefeated with a win over #1, I'm almost positive they'd leapfrog #2 Rochester and be the new #1.  It'd be different if Rochester had a "signature win" of some sort, but I don't think any of these Rochester wins mean that much...

New Paltz State
Oneonta State     
Nazareth     
Cortland State     
Ohio Wesleyan     
Carnegie Mellon     
Hobart

My 12/4 ballot top five was:

1 Amherst
2 Brandeis
3 Guilford
4 Lewis and Clark
5 UW-Stevens Point

I have no idea what I'll do at this point.

Rochester had 556 points and 1 first place vote last week.  That translates to an average ballot position of slightly better than #4, even if you disregard the #1 vote.  That's approximately the same as Brandeis (551, without the #1 vote), so you're probably right that Brandeis would have passed them after beating the team that was #1 or #2 on every ballot.  Although your reasoning about where to slot Rochester is sound, it's not clear that the other voters go along with you.  Your #4 vote for L&C, which provided 14% of the Pioneers' support this week (the other 24 voters gave them 134 points, an average ballot position of 20-21) suggests that you think somewhat differently from at least some of the other voters.

Regardless, it's sure to be an interesting poll!

[Titan Q]

[Rochester had 556 points and 1 first place vote last week.  That translates to an average ballot position of slightly better than #4, even if you disregard the #1 vote.  That's approximately the same as Brandeis (551, without the #1 vote), so you're probably right that Brandeis would have passed them after beating the team that was #1 or #2 on every ballot.  Although your reasoning about where to slot Rochester is sound, it's not clear that the other voters go along with you.  Your #4 vote for L&C, which provided 14% of the Pioneers' support this week (the other 24 voters gave them 134 points, an average ballot position of 20-21) suggests that you think somewhat differently from at least some of the other voters.

Regardless, it's sure to be an interesting poll!

Well hopefully there are 25 pretty different opinions and ways of thinking...that's kind of the point.  If you were to dig into all 25 ballots, you'd find all kinds of examples like the Lewis & Clark situation.

And regarding Lewis & Clark, the fact they played Division I Portland State (6-3) to a 1-point game this week makes me feel pretty good about where I have them.  I hope the voters don't just see a "L" there and drop them.  Both of their losses now are to Division I teams (Pacific being the other, also 6-3)...I thought it was a little unfair the Pioneers dropped after losing to Pacific.

PS I read Undaunted Courage this fall...I hope this isn't affecting my placement of Lewis & Clark!!

[Ralph Turner]

Titan Q, thank you for your perspective of L&C. 

I think that we can get "6 degrees of Kevin Bacon" with the NWC teams as they play thru the Christmas Holidays tourneys.

[David Collinge]

PS I read Undaunted Courage this fall...I hope this isn't affecting my placement of Lewis & Clark!!

I'm sending you some P.G. Wodehouse for Christmas. 

[ILive4This]

While I am not sure exactly what was said on WBRS and how, but being at the game, my guess is that it was a mix of excitement, and just letting the listeners know what was being chanted on the court by the 1700+ crowd that rushed the court. Most of these people don't know much about d3 ball, and may not have even known about the OT loss on thursday. I am not sure Brandeis will/or should be number 1, but I know the game yesterday was exciting and it shows that with or without deluca, Brandeis is a real title threat.

[Mr. Ypsi]

PS I read Undaunted Courage this fall...I hope this isn't affecting my placement of Lewis & Clark!!

I'm sending you some P.G. Wodehouse for Christmas. 

David, I'm not quite sure how to take this - that the Scots are lovable bumblers in constant need of rescue from their own foibles?  [Would anyone really place Bertie in their top 25 of something that generally requires competence? ]