Top 25 talk

[Titan Q]

An injury that will probably affect a Top 25 team pretty significantly...

#10 Augustana's starting 2-guard, and leading scorer, Jordan Delp (15.2 ppg) suffered a ruptured achilles tendon yesterday vs St. Norbert.  Last season as a junior, Delp made the 2nd Team All-CCIW.  On the year he made 53 of 118 3-pt attempts (.449) and led the CCIW champion Vikings in scoring (13.1 ppg). Augie has a lot of depth, but this will hurt them a lot.

As far as the poll, I'm a firm believer a team should not drop after a key injury until their play merits it.  But in terms of the CCIW race, I certainly look at things differently now.  Augustana is still very much a contender for the league title, but they're probably right on par with Elmhurst and Wheaton now, or maybe even a notch behind those two teams. Before the injury to Delp I had some questions about Augustana as a Top 10 team (they recently lost at home to UW-La Crosse), and those questions just doubled for me.

[ScotsFan]

I'm thinking Capital might be underrated at #15.

Capital finally seems to be playing up to their expectations over their last 3 games.  Starting with a hard-fought win on the road at OWU, the Crusaders have opened the OAC campaign in impressive fashion.  Starting with an easy win over a Wilmington team that had been playing some good basketball and then following that up with a nice win over JCU on the road.   

However, Cap had not been playing up to expectations prior to these last 3 games.  Starting with a loss to an average at best Mt. St. Joseph team.  Then the Crusaders struggled to put away a struggling Wittenberg.  And then it took overtime for Cap to defeat Kenyon and while the Lords are showing signs of improvement, I still didn't expect them to take Cap to OT.

So, I guess I wouldn't say that Cap might be underrated  based on their early season struggles.  If they keep playing like they have in their last 2 games especially, it won't take them long to get back into the top 10.

[David Collinge]

HOW THEY FARED (week of Dec. 3-9) (final)

#   1   Amherst (6-1) def. MIT 66-60 and lost at #3 Brandeis 72-62
#   2   Rochester (7-0) won at Hobart 70-57
#   3   Brandeis (8-1) won at Clark 82-71, lost at Mass.-Dartmouth 71-64 (OT), and def. #1 Amherst 72-62
#   4   UW-Stevens Point (5-1) won at UW-La Crosse 76-61 and def. Lawrence 75-56
#   5   Mary Hardin-Baylor (3-0) is idle
#   6   UW-Whitewater (5-1) lost at UW-Oshkosh 80-74 and def. UW-Superior 92-85
#   7   Guilford (4-1) def. Methodist 74-48 and won at N.C. Wesleyan 91-80
#   8   Williams (7-0) def. Springfield 71-66
#   9   Virginia Wesleyan (4-2) lost to Newport News Apprentice 76-75
#   10   Augustana (6-1) def. St. Ambrose 85-68 and won at St. Norbert 77-70 (2 OT)
#   11   Hope (5-1) def. Marygrove 100-52 and def. Aquinas 68-59
#   12   Washington U. (6-2) def. Illinois Wesleyan 69-66
#   13   Plattsburgh St. (6-0) won at Clarkson 77-63 and def. Oswego St. 86-81
#   14   Puget Sound (6-0) plays at Warner Pacific Tue.* and def. Cal St.-Stanislaus 121-101
#   15   Capital (7-1) def. Wilmington 89-68 and won at John Carroll 87-72
#   16   Keene St. (5-2) lost to Tufts 81-67 and lost to Rhode Island College 96-91 (OT)
#   17   Stevens (8-0) def. Elmira 62-59 and def. Ithaca 83-74
#   18   Calvin (4-3) lost at Aquinas 78-62
#   19   Brockport St. (4-1) def. Roberts Wesleyan 91-77 and won at Oneonta St. 79-74
#   20   Lewis & Clark (3-2) lost to Portland St. 61-60 at the Rose Garden in Portland
#   21   Trinity (CT) (6-1) lost to Springfield 62-57
#   22   St. Thomas (7-2) def. Hamline 72-64, lost at Macalester 72-70, and won at St. Olaf 85-78
#   23   Elmhurst (3-1) is idle
#   24   Wheaton (IL) (7-1) won at Illinois Tech. 66-47 and won at Wartburg 69-66
#   25   Wooster (4-2) won at Oberlin 94-54 and won at Ohio Wesleyan 80-77

* Puget Sound's game at Warner Pacific, scheduled for Tue., has been postponed indefinitely (thanks, LogShow!)

[Marty Peretz]

Does Wash.U. move up, stay the same, or again fall down in the poll after this week's three point win over IWU. IWU, by the way, is MUCH better than advertised. Don't be fooled by their youth. Particularly with Augie's early struggles and now devestating injury, IWU should make a lot of noise in the CCIW. I would say Wash.U. could move up, but their losses to Augi and more specifically, Calvin (who now has 3 losses), aren't nearly as quality as I initially suspected. Still, beating IWU, UW-Platteville, and Ohio Northern, I believe qualify them for top ten consideration.

[fcnews]

For underrated how about Puget Sound? Just by looking at their sechedule and results it appears they are pretty tough. They should be competitive in the West picture.

[iwumichigander]

Does Wash.U. move up, stay the same, or again fall down in the poll after this week's three point win over IWU. IWU, by the way, is MUCH better than advertised. Don't be fooled by their youth. Particularly with Augie's early struggles and now devestating injury, IWU should make a lot of noise in the CCIW. I would say Wash.U. could move up, but their losses to Augi and more specifically, Calvin (who now has 3 losses), aren't nearly as quality as I initially suspected. Still, beating IWU, UW-Platteville, and Ohio Northern, I believe qualify them for top ten consideration.

I don't see them moving down.  Wash U was #12 last week with the same losses you cite.  Yes, IWU did win most of the measurable statistic battles, but Wash U got the "W".  Experienced teams defend their home court even when faced with adversity.  With four teams above Wash U last week posting an "L", I think voters culd very easily move Wash U up.

[sac]

Calvin (who now has 3 losses), aren't nearly as quality as I initially suspected.

2 losses to NAIA II Aquinas who is 10-1, once in double overtime, the other by 1 point to Wheaton (7-1)

(By the way the only team to beat AQ and Wheaton was Hope)

They beat pre-season #1 Washington U with Sean Wallis.

Calvin's the best 4-3 team in the country, I wouldn't poo poo them so quickly.

[LogShow]

For underrated how about Puget Sound? Just by looking at their sechedule and results it appears they are pretty tough. They should be competitive in the West picture.

Giving Puget Sound some love

They are 2-0 aginst D2 and also beat UW-Stout in Stout's own tournament...guess we will see with the new poll on tuesday

[Greek Tragedy]

Giving Puget Sound some love

They are 2-0 aginst D2 and also beat UW-Stout in Stout's own tournament...guess we will see with the new poll on tuesday

I may give Puget Sound some love, but it won't be because they beat Stout.  The Blue Devils suck and their own posters will agree.  They almost lost to Finlandia before winning in OT.  They have a couple of D1 transfers that think they are God's gift to D3 basketball and jack up shots like they're going out of style.  One Stout poster said they didn't even need a shot clock and another suggested tearing up the hardwood and putting down blacktop because they play like their on the playground.  It was painful to watch them get smoked by Oshkosh on Saturday...just ask the Blue Devil alumnus (who played) I was sitting next to!

[kiltedbryan]

Calvin's the best 4-3 team in the country, I wouldn't poo poo them so quickly.

Speaking of that, after watching Ohio Wesleyan suffer another tough loss to a ranked opponent this weekend, I think OWU might be the best 3-4 team in the country. OWU's last two games have seen them lose to #15 Capital and #25 Wooster by a combined 5 pts. in games that could easily have gone the other way.

OWU also led (soon-to-be?) #1 Rochester for the wrong 3/4 of the game in a seven point loss on the road at Rochester.

Its other loss? To 6-0 Trinity (TX) in the season-opening lid-lifter on a neutral floor.

Combined record of the teams that defeated them: 24-3.

I'm not arguing that OWU should be in the poll somewhere at 3-4 (they needed to beat a few of those teams to earn serious voting support), but this team is probably Wooster's primary competition for the NCAC crown, and, like Wooster, should be able to amass numerous victories against a very lackluster conference. That 3-4 record is likely to improve.

[Gregory Sager]

I thought Ohio Wesleyan was decent when I saw the Bishops on opening weekend, but I wouldn't say that I was bowled over by them. They have nice balance, but they seem awfully streaky as far as shooting is concerned. I've seen a number of other teams this season that I think are better.

Still, I do have a liking for balanced teams. OWU could be one of those teams that gets better as the year goes on just by virtue of keeping everyone involved in the scoring; I've seen teams like that from time to time.

[ScotsFan]

Greg,

I'd say your description of OWU is pretty spot on.  The balance in scoring they bring is definately their strength.  Against Wooster on Saturday, they put 5 players in double figures and they have 4 averaging double figures in scoring on the season. 

However,  they do seem to be a very streaky shooting team, especially from beyond the arc.  In their game vs. Wooster, they managed to shoot a respectable 47% from the floor, but they were only 7-28 from downtown.  Compare that to Wooster going 9-14 from downtown!

If OWU starts to dial it in from the outside, they could become quite good as the season progresses.

[theBroadcaster]

While I am not sure exactly what was said on WBRS and how, but being at the game, my guess is that it was a mix of excitement, and just letting the listeners know what was being chanted on the court by the 1700+ crowd that rushed the court. Most of these people don't know much about d3 ball, and may not have even known about the OT loss on thursday. I am not sure Brandeis will/or should be number 1, but I know the game yesterday was exciting and it shows that with or without deluca, Brandeis is a real title threat.

ILive, I am the one who made those comments on WBRS, and your guess is basically dead on.  Objectively, Brandeis still did lose to an unranked team this week, so for them to jump and undefeated Rochester whose already ahead of them in the polls probably isn't logical.  However, when you take into account where the Brandeis program used to be, and then look at where it is now, I was simply trying to show just how much the win meant to the Brandeis faithful.  I know on paper it was only #3 beating #1, but in the eyes of people who follow the team it did still feel like a david beating a goliath.  Brandeis isnt acustomed to things like this happening, so for us it really felt like winning the super bowl.  There were a good 4 times as many people than average at the game, and if Brandeis had lost most of them probably would never have gone to a game again.  Most of the student body just isn't educated about school sports, and there isn't much pride in the school.  But with the win, it really did feel like Brandeis was #1, and in my 4 years as a student I've never seen or felt students being that proud of their school.  I guess in the end that was what I was trying to express at the end of the game.

[scottiedawg]

Top Vote Getting Movers
+21 UW Oshkosh
+13 Emerson
+6 Rowan
+5 Trinity (Texas)
+5 Rhode Island Col
+4 Wheaton
+4 Hope
-6 Calvin
-6 St. Thomas
-7 UW LaCrosse
-7 Centre
-9 Virginia Wesleyan
-9 Trinity (Conn)
-10 Widener
-13 Keene State

This ignores teams that went from zero votes to some votes (Mass Dartmouth), and those that went from some votes to zero votes (DePauw). 

[Knightstalker]

I wonder if the voters that gave votes to Rowan actually looked at who Rowan has beaten since losing to NJCU.  Two of the games are a Junior college and Valley Forge Christian and another was Neuman.  To gain points after beating up on St Agnes sisters of the blind, someone is not looking.