Top 25 talk

[Mr. Downtown]

Is it time for UW-Platteville, the #1 seed if the season ended today for the WIAC, be ranked?

It's funny, Oshkosh and Platteville, who would be seeds #1 and 2, are on the higher end of the poll, with Whitewater (who lost their best player for the season) and Stevens Point (who also lost their best player for who knows when) are on the lower end.

[Marty Peretz]

Pat and Dave, you're both right in principle, but having seen Emory play, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you. I really don't mean any disrespect to Emory, but they simply are not a very good basketball game. That game against Rochester was as stunning an upset as I've ever heard in D3, or really at any level. Considering that Chicago beat Emory by 26 one week ago, yet only lost to Deis by 2, how can you think that Rochester is markedly better than Deis, especially if Deis beats Wash.U? Basically, I'm saying that a Brandeis loss at home against Chicago and a Brandeis win at home against Wash.U., is still better than a Rochester loss to Emory on the road. If Deis beats Wash.U., they will have beaten Amherst and Wash.U. and have just one bad loss (Chicago). Their other two losses--close one at Rochester and close one at UMD--are MUCH more impressive to me than some of Rochester's wins...

[Jacketfan2011]

"how can you think that Rochester is markedly better than Deis"

I'll go out on a limb and say.......because Rochester beat them.

Are you inferring that UMD has more quality wins than UR?  In your oppinion, which?

[pbrooks3]

Elmhurst is on the ropes in overtime to Wheaton (IL) with 14 seconds left 79-73.

[pbrooks3]

#13 Elmhurst goes down to #22 Wheaton 79-75 in OT.

[Pat Coleman]

Pat and Dave, you're both right in principle, but having seen Emory play, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you.

Ahh yes, but I have seen Emory too, and I have seen Emory at home. You have seen Emory after a flight of how many miles?

You should know full well what the difference is between home and road in the UAA.

[Pat Coleman]

It is dangerous to base your entire opinion of a team on one viewing.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Pat and Dave, you're both right in principle, but having seen Emory play, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you. I really don't mean any disrespect to Emory, but they simply are not a very good basketball game. That game against Rochester was as stunning an upset as I've ever heard in D3, or really at any level. Considering that Chicago beat Emory by 26 one week ago, yet only lost to Deis by 2, how can you think that Rochester is markedly better than Deis, especially if Deis beats Wash.U? Basically, I'm saying that a Brandeis loss at home against Chicago and a Brandeis win at home against Wash.U., is still better than a Rochester loss to Emory on the road. If Deis beats Wash.U., they will have beaten Amherst and Wash.U. and have just one bad loss (Chicago). Their other two losses--close one at Rochester and close one at UMD--are MUCH more impressive to me than some of Rochester's wins...

OK... let me try and explain this with a tale of the tape:
- Rochester has lost ONE game... Brandeis has lost THREE games - advantage Rochester
- Rochester BEAT Brandeis - advantage Rochester
- Rochester's loss was on the road... Brandeis at home - advantage Rochester
- Rochester lost to an bigger underdog in Emory... Brandeis lost to Chicago - push (since Rochester was on the road, and everyone says it is tough to win on the road in the UAA)

With your comparison... it is too narrow for a national Top 25 poll. It doesn't matter if you think Brandeis has had two good losses and one bad one... they have three - period. Sure, the UMD loss now looks more impressive, so based on your arguement, I would put UMD #1.

That being said, Rochester beat Brandies and has one loss. They have also taken everyone's best shot - being as highly ranked as they have - and only tripped once. Brandeis has tripped three times with everyone's best shot and lost three times.

Now... if Rochester losses a few more in the conference and Brandeis continues to win out, I may start to overlook the Rochester win over Brandeis. But right now... I would be shocked if most voters would put Rochester behind Brandeis.

Heck... Rochester came back to tie the game at the buzzer and force overtime on the road.
Brandeis played sloppy basketball and even with help from a friendly home-clock, couldn't tie or win the game at the buzzer against Chicago at home!
(For the record, with that kind of time on the clock - three seconds - I am not a fan of the baseball pass. I have seen two games won with LESS time on the clock with a 1/3 court pass and the attempt to dribble to a better position. Much better chance to get the ball into your team's hands that way!)

Oh... and I can come up with a few other shocking upsets in D3 that are bigger than Emory over Rochester... off the top of my head - Goucher over Lebanon Valley in the 1st round of the NCAA tournament in 1995 (many will understand why I throw that out there) and there have been others!

[Pat Coleman]

Oh... and I can come up with a few other shocking upsets in D3 that are bigger than Emory over Rochester... off the top of my head - Goucher over Lebanon Valley in the 1st round of the NCAA tournament in 1995 (many will understand why I throw that out there) and there have been others!

Let's not go overboard. Goucher wasn't a 9-8 team.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I know... was just trying to have fun ... though it was a big upset!

[sac]

Sounds like maybe DaveC has a new project.

Oh Dave, can you find the biggest upset of a ranked team in the poll era.  Thank you.

[smedindy]

I have a contender! Denison beating Wittenberg on December 11, 2004.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

*SMACK*

The sound of Dave C hitting himself up-side the head for his abilities of finding almost any kind of information a poster may need!

Keep up the good work, Dave! :-)

Denison beating Wittenberg - that could be a contender!

[smedindy]

There may be one larger, but in our area there was not one more surprising. Denison was 6-20 in 2004, they stood at 2-5 and had just lost to HIRAM (who wound up 4-21) of all teams before beating Witt.

The Big Red later won 8 out of 10 late in the year and wound up 13-12 on the season. But Witt beat them in the rematch 87-49.

[magicman]

I have to agree with Dave. He pretty well summed it up point by point. Dave, just not sure if you meant  you would put UMD #1 because you believe they should be or based on what Marty said HE would have to put UMD #1 instead of Brandeis. I believe Rochester should remain #1 despite  the upset at Emory. Amherst #2, followed by Hope and Washington at #4 if they beat Brandeis on Sunday. UMD moves up to #5 but their weak schedule makes me feel as if that's a gift. And of their remaining 8 games they will only face 2 teams that might spoil that perfect record. They could go 28-0 and lose big in the 1st round of the NCAA's. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. in part because last year's Conference champion Rhode Island College did make it to the great 8 losing to eventual champion Amherst. On another note (and I'm beating the drums for my hometown team) the Plattsburgh State Cardinals have won 7 in a row and now stand at 14-2. Their last three games have been against the top contenders for the conference crown with last night's win coming against Brockport State, a team that came close to making the final four last year and returned just about everybody from that squad. The Cardinals only 2 losses were against a couple of decent teams 1 of them being Occidental after the Cards made that "short" road trip from Northern N.Y. State to Calif.  Hopefully they'll continue to climb up the rankings from their current #17 spot. They were the last team to beat Rochester, before the upset by Emory, taking out the Yellowjackets in the 1st round of the NCAA's last year in the Rochester area. Both UR and the Cards have returned basically the same teams as last year and we might very well have to duke it out again. But I sure wish we could play UMass-Dartmouth in the 1st round.