Top 25 talk

[Mr. Ypsi]

'Ranked opponents' refers only to those teams ranked in the FINAL regional rankings (which, alas, we never see).  It has nothing to do with poll rankings.

[ILive4This]

I mean that is the nature of d3, brackets are geographic, and they do not do seedings, if they did and used some sort of RPI system, I think it would be safe to say that Amherst, Hope, Brandeis, (maybe centre and white water) would have had byes. I would actually like to sit down some day with those power rankings that were put up and then put out a bracket.

If you want an RPI type rating (which takes into account strength of schedule etc.), you could just use the Massey Ratings.  According to Massey the top 5 teams are (without MOV): Millsaps, Ursinus, Brandeis, Rochester, and WashU; with MOV: Brandeis, Hope, Ohio Wes., Amherst, Chicago.   Although the MOV ratings include the 3 teams you listed, they also include Ohio Wesl and Chicago and I dont think anyone would argue that they deserve byes.  Therefore, a purely mathematical bracket really wouldnt work either, some common sense also needs to be used.  However, I think it is hard to judge the records of all the teams in the country, through all of the regions, because a given record in one region doesnt mean the same as in another region.  It is also too much to expect that all of the committee members will see each of the tournament candidates play.  This isnt DI where it is easy to watch each NCAA tourney candidate on TV at some time during the season.  Sometimes they just have to go by these regional factors, primary criteria, and secondary criteria to make assignments without knowing anything about the team or their opponents.  The OWP or OOWP is not a good measure for comparing teams between regions, so there is really no good metric to compare how teams stack up from region to region when both teams have similar records.

I got to be honest, its nice to see Brandeis in the top 5 of both massey ratings, and yes clearly you use the math as a guide then some common sense, i mean polls should be considered as well, quality wins and losses etc..

[Hugenerd]

I think the Massey ratings you cite include the first two tournament games, so that's probably why OWU is so high.

That is correct, the massey ratings were updated and I didnt feel like looking for last weeks.  Regardless, Chicago is still in there with their loss, which still illustrates my point that you cant go just by the RPI numbers.

[LogShow]

So where should/will UW-WW end up in the final Top 25?   

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Any chance we can wait to see how the rest of the teams complete the season?
It has a lot to do with teams above and below them!

[ILive4This]

well, there was only one team above them, and I do not see white water passing them. My guess as of right now is top 15 somewhere, they are helped since only 7 ranked teams made the sweet 16

[LogShow]

Any chance we can wait to see how the rest of the teams complete the season?
It has a lot to do with teams above and below them!

Of course!   I was just interested...and very suprised by UW-WW early exit, I mean they were 2nd in the nation and had a home game.  But historically they have seemed to struggle in the NCAA

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Pretty impressive performance by the ranked teams last night, as 6 of the 8 advance to the elite eight.

[smedindy]

OWP & OOWP = pooh, it doesn't measure anything and should be dropped as a primary criteria.  Secondary maybe. 

It measures quite a bit more than QOWI, of course the regionality thing waters it down big time.

[fcnews]

After watching the two games in the STL last night, three teams really impressed me. 1.) of course Wash U. and their ability to never be out of a game. 2.) Millsaps is a very well coached squad and extremely athletic. 3.) BV, I think this squad has been underrated the last month. Size galore and great speed at the guards. Just my thoughts.

[sac]

OWP & OOWP = pooh, it doesn't measure anything and should be dropped as a primary criteria.  Secondary maybe. 

It measures quite a bit more than QOWI, of course the regionality thing waters it down big time.

It doesn't measure anything

[Pat Coleman]

Sac -- you have to be kidding me. Heck, even Division I uses this as a metric.

It only measures in-region games, that's for sure, but by now the NCAA's philosophy should be clear to schools about what games "count" and which are ignored.

Without a strength of schedule component, Green Mountain looks better than Hope. Simply using regional record isn't enough. And using QOWI, which measured regional record twice, ignored the basic question as to how your opponents got the record they got, giving a team the same credit for playing Green Mountain or Amherst.

[fcnews]

Excuse me for my ignorance, but I don't understand the DIII philosphy of forcing "in region games" on the schools. If a school can do the fundraising and schedule a few trips that don't take away from classes, why should this count against them. Isn't part of being a student-athlete a chance to experience the most out of their playing days.

Also, strength of schedule penalizes teams for their conference teams down falls. These are games that are musts on their schedules.

I think it is fairly easy to tell who has a tough non-conference schedule and who doesn't.

[sac]

Sac -- you have to be kidding me. Heck, even Division I uses this as a metric.

It only measures in-region games, that's for sure, but by now the NCAA's philosophy should be clear to schools about what games "count" and which are ignored.

Without a strength of schedule component, Green Mountain looks better than Hope. Simply using regional record isn't enough. And using QOWI, which measured regional record twice, ignored the basic question as to how your opponents got the record they got, giving a team the same credit for playing Green Mountain or Amherst.

No they don't use OWP, they use RPI which has OWP, OOWP and your winning % combined in a formula.


Up to 90% of a D3 schedule is going to come from conference games, for most teams all OWP is going to tell is how well the conference did.

[fcnews]

well said sac +1 K