Top 25 talk

[Pat Coleman]

Except the math is wrong. It's only 90% if you don't bother to play non-conference in-region games. Otherwise if you're in an eight-team conference, playing 14 conference games plus let's say the high of three in the conference tournament, that's 17 out of 28 games that are against conference teams. It gets a bit higher in the SCAC and if you're the ASC, which weighs ease of scheduling over national competition, then that's a different story.

[sac]

"Up to"

[fcnews]

If Fontbonne has two games on their schedule next year, DI SIU-E and DII Chaminade, why should this not count towards their SOS. They are both NCAA opponents. I understand it's not what the DIII wants. But, it doesn't make any sense. These two games are much tougher then adding a couple of mid level "in region" DIII contests. Plus these two games help the programs bottom line and allows for them to do some traveling.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

fc - this one is easy... how do we compare a team that plays a couple of non-D3 games with teams that play in the division? We can't! There is no comparison. So, smartly, we throw those games out. If we go to pick teams based on games outside of the division for an in-division championship tournament, how is that fair to anyone? I hope the NCAA Committee doesn't sit on a conference-call saying, "sheesh, we better get that team in for beating Chaminade, since they were the only team to do so and I can't compare them to the other at-large team who didn't play Chaminade."

This is Division III... play teams out of division if you want to, but when we compare the teams in this division and pick those worthly of playing in the national championship, understand if those games out of division shouldn't be considered. If you want those games to count, change divisions.

Realize that might be harsh, but it just doesn't make any sense to me - award a team for playing OUT of the division! Or heck, out of the NCAA (NAIA)!

[fcnews]

Dave - I think your explanation took things alittle to extremes. No one said the committee needed to use these games as comparisons to anyones games. I said that they could be figured into OWPI or SOS pretty easily. As for strength of schedule it's easy to give a value for a game played against either of the teams mentioned. Games played for guarantees have been part of scheduling, in all divisions, for years.

I can handle harsh. Just look at the question with an open mind. Do these games have value to SOS.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Understand your point... I just don't think games outside of the division should count for comparision sakes in SOS or anything.

[Marty Peretz]

Give credit to the voters. Three of the final four teams have held the number one spot this year. That ain't too bad.

[John Gleich]

Give credit to the voters. Three of the final four teams have held the number one spot this year. That ain't too bad.

I totally agree... ESPECIALLY this year, where so many top 25 teams were beaten.  I'm not really even sure "upset" is the right word, because there were so many teams playing at roughly the same level.

[sac]

I think everyone has a team or two they'd rather see in Salem but its hard to be disappointed with a tournament that produces a Final Four with #1, #3, #11 and #16.

Three of them having spent time at #1, the pre-season #1, and 3 of the 4 being presumebly the top seed in their Section, the 4th having beaten that sectionals top seed.

D1 will be hard pressed to do better.

[Ralph Turner]

Dave - I think your explanation took things alittle to extremes. No one said the committee needed to use these games as comparisons to anyones games. I said that they could be figured into OWPI or SOS pretty easily. As for strength of schedule it's easy to give a value for a game played against either of the teams mentioned. Games played for guarantees have been part of scheduling, in all divisions, for years.

I can handle harsh. Just look at the question with an open mind. Do these games have value to SOS.

fc, thanks for the discussion.

I will weigh in on Fontbonne's non-conference schedule.  Within a five-hour drive of St Louis, you have so many more teams from which to choose non-conference, in-region games.

I will concede a D-1 "money game" that helps fund the program.  If you have one nearby NAIA or D-II school whom you can schedule around "dead week", then I can justify that for your student-athletes.  (You know, play a game to keep the skills up, but not an "in-region" game that counts against you.)

D-III needs to promote D-III.

[Greek Tragedy]

Other former #1s...ONE!

Rochester:  WK 3, WK 4, WK 5, WK 6, WK 7, WK 8

Washington U.: Preseason, WK 9
Amherst:  WK 1, WK 2, WK 10, WK 11, WK 12, WK 13
Hope:  WK 14

Rochester was in the other bracket, so we could've had all former and current (Hope) #1s in the Final Four.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Well, the way Rochester played on Friday... they didn't deserve to move on. I was disappointed.

[ILive4This]

Another response to FCnews, my feeling is it would work both ways. If they got the advantage of a higher SOS, then you also would have to face their OWP which would most likely be fairly low as it would be a d1 team that gets beat up on in the regular season. Chaminade is a d2 with some history, but since they face 7 tough d1 teams during the EA sports tourney, and have not had a big impact in d2 as of late, i think this would hurt FC more than it would help.

to help the bottom line and promote travel more, than perhaps look for a big d3 tourney over the holidays with a decent guarantee and some strong d3 teams.

[nwhoops1903]

If Fontbonne has two games on their schedule next year, DI SIU-E and DII Chaminade, why should this not count towards their SOS. They are both NCAA opponents. I understand it's not what the DIII wants. But, it doesn't make any sense. These two games are much tougher then adding a couple of mid level "in region" DIII contests. Plus these two games help the programs bottom line and allows for them to do some traveling.

Maybe they can get a game against the Boston Red Sox or the Miami Dolphins, too.  Would that help their SOS or OWPI?  Stick to the benefits these games provide (you mention) and leave it at that.

[Gregory Sager]

Dave - I think your explanation took things alittle to extremes. No one said the committee needed to use these games as comparisons to anyones games. I said that they could be figured into OWPI or SOS pretty easily. As for strength of schedule it's easy to give a value for a game played against either of the teams mentioned. Games played for guarantees have been part of scheduling, in all divisions, for years.

I can handle harsh. Just look at the question with an open mind. Do these games have value to SOS.

fc, thanks for the discussion.

I will weigh in on Fontbonne's non-conference schedule.  Within a five-hour drive of St Louis, you have so many more teams from which to choose non-conference, in-region games.

I will concede a D-1 "money game" that helps fund the program.  If you have one nearby NAIA or D-II school whom you can schedule around "dead week", then I can justify that for your student-athletes.  (You know, play a game to keep the skills up, but not an "in-region" game that counts against you.)

D-III needs to promote D-III.

I agree with you, Ralph, but it should be mentioned that games against D2 teams are also "money games". NCAA rules stipulate that when a team from one of the two scholarship divisions hosts a game against a lower-division team (D2 @ D1, D3 @ D1, or D3 @ D2), the host has to pay out a guarantee to the visitor.