Top 25 talk

[scout]

Hugenard, I was indeed assuming some losses at the bottom of the pack. Whether that train of thought is warranted or not, we'll see as the week develops.

Nevertheless, there's an argument to be made that we've all heard before. A team can only play the games it has scheduled. With that said, there does need to be accountability for strength of schedule, and I think it plays a significant factor with those who vote.

Still, clearly Gordon has made some sort of an impression thus far to garner any votes at all, let alone 40 from none in the first poll. A win over Endicott should not play a part in accumulating any additional votes, whereas a loss would almost certainly lose Gordon a bunch of those it had. However, two additional wins including Endicott and Salem State (a solid program, though perhaps down this year) combined with losses from those at the bottom of the Top 25 (even if it's only one) can do nothing but boon Gordon at least one additional vote, etc.

I'm just approaching the issue from a logic perspective. And, as always, I respect your point of view and relative seniority on the boards.

[Walter17]

It is nice to see Trinity, TX (4-1) get some votes this year.  Had a buzzer beater fallen for them against #6 Stevens Point, I think they would be placed in the top 25 for sure!

To touch on the topic of accountability for strength of schedule, I think you have to take into consideration that when a school schedules their games, they are not taking D3hoops polls into consideration.  Many schools want to rack up as good of a regional record as they can, because that is what will get them an at-large bid if they don't win their conference.

[Ralph Turner]

It is nice to see Trinity, TX (4-1) get some votes this year.  Had a buzzer beater fallen for them against #6 Stevens Point, I think they would be placed in the top 25 for sure!

To touch on the topic of accountability for strength of schedule, I think you have to take into consideration that when a school schedules their games, they are not taking D3hoops polls into consideration.  Many schools want to rack up as good of a regional record as they can, because that is what will get them an at-large bid if they don't win their conference.

Good points, but the regional record needs to balance the impact seen in the OWP/OOWP.

Beating the "Weak Sisters of the Poor" doesn't help the OWP.

I have always admired the schedule that Coach Cunningham puts together.  He knows what he wants to do with the slot in his schedule, and he can accomplish that very frequently.

I have mentioned this before.  Trinity TX and UT-Dallas are the teams to watch now from this part of the South Region.  The team with the most talent that needs to "gel" is Mississippi College.  And, the ASC West will come down to HSU, UMHB and McMurry.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I'm amazed Gordon got up so high so quickly.  Granted 40 points is not a lot, but they did have an uncharacteristically strong start to the season.

There's a lot of talent, but a good amount of inexperience as well.  We'll see how they do the rest of the way.

They did beat William Patterson, MIT, and Oneonta State in the span of a single week. Granted, these teams weren't ranked, but considering the mixed results of the teams at the bottom of the preseason Top 25, and a solid 5-0 start, getting some votes was warranted, I would think.

Still, I'm about as surprised as you are that it happened so quickly.

They have a rivarly non-con matchup at Endicott on Thursday followed by another early season test as they host Salem State on Saturday. Two wins and they should crack the rankings. A loss, and they'll lose what votes they had.

They arent going to jump over anyone based on just the merits of those two wins (if they win both) this coming week.  They would additionally need  a couple of teams in the 20-25 range to lose, then they may break the rankings.  This may have been what you meant but I just wanted to clarify.  It looks like they would need about 50 points to get into the rankings and that would require each voter, on average, to rank them 2 spots higher.  This may not sound like much but considering that most of the voters never see them play, dont know much about the team, and dont know much about the teams they play, it becomes a bit more difficult.

Looking at Gordon's schedule, they dont really play any teams that would be eye-opening wins on the national stage (like against a ranked team).  Therefore, if they want to get ranked they need to (obviously) continue to win but they also need to have people ahead of them lose.  If they break into the rankings, it will be due to a cumalative effect of winning a lot of games in a row, compared to a team with a stronger record or reputation who may sustain their ranking, even with some losses. For example, WPI beat 2 ranked teams over the past couple of weeks, showing that they are one of the best teams in the northeast (arguably top 2 with Amherst).  None of the teams Gordon plays carries that distinction, so you will always be able to make an argument against them (strength of schedule) and for them (potentially their record) and it will be up to the individual voter to decide which factor weighs more in their mind.  It will be difficult to post a signature win with their schedule.

Their only hope for some decent notice is beating Salem State and having Salem continue to win their non-con games.  I think Salem State plays WPI this weekend.

Gordon does have the advantage of live online video for their games, so voters could check them out if they so desired.

[Hugenerd]

Some interesting results in that 20-25 range we were discussing earlier. 

#20 UMD loses to Bridgewater State, which should hurt them and help #25 RIC.  RIC has already beaten Bridgewater and their only loss is to undefeated (#17) WPI.  That result would probably put RIC back ahead of UMD in voters mind and push them up a little bit in the rankings (they obviously wont be ranked any higher than WPI).

*22 Transylvania loses to a previously 1-4 Hanover squad.  This will likely drop both them and (possibly) #23 Centre from the rankings, because Translvania beat Centre (on Centre's court) less than 2 weeks ago.  Centre went from #13 to #23 with the loss, pulling Transylvania up one spot ahead of them.  But with Transylvania's loss to a seemingly weak opponent, there may not be much justification for either team to be ranked in the top 25.

This may open the door for some of the other teams receiving votes in this weeks poll to crack the top 25.

[John Gleich]

If Centre keeps winning, I wouldn't put too much weight on what the team that beat them did.  There are far too many variables in one game to another to give comparative scoring tons of merit.  If Center does not lose this week, I think they stay put or move up, depending on what others do ahead of them.

[Gregory Sager]

Some interesting results in that 20-25 range we were discussing earlier. 

#20 UMD loses to Bridgewater State, which should hurt them and help #25 RIC.  RIC has already beaten Bridgewater and their only loss is to undefeated (#17) WPI.  That result would probably put RIC back ahead of UMD in voters mind and push them up a little bit in the rankings (they obviously wont be ranked any higher than WPI).

That won't happen, however, unless the Anchormen are able to take care of their own business by traveling up to Waltham, MA tomorrow night and beating a highly-touted (preseason #9) Brandeis team that looks like it is bouncing back from a rough start.

If the Anchormen lose, we might see both Little East teams get bounced from the next rankings.

[scottiedawg]

Is David Collinge planning on continuing his wonderful "How They Fared" posting?

In the meantime:
#7 UW Stevens Point loses to #49 Lawrence
#13 Illinois Wesleyan loses to Olivet Nazarene
#17 WPI loses to Salem State
#20 UMD loses to Bridgewater State
#22 Transylvania loses to Hanover
#25 RIC loses to #39 Brandeis
#31 Bethel loses to St. Johns College
#40 Guilford loses to #24 NC Wesleyan

[David Collinge]

Is David Collinge planning on continuing his wonderful "How They Fared" posting?

No, he is not.  Feel free to take over.

[Hugenerd]

If the last couple of nights tells us anything, it is about the parity of the northeast.  WPI (who has beat Lasell, Brandeis and RIC) had their first loss tonight to Salem State, who's only loss is to Wheaton (MA), who's only loss is to Emerson, who's only loss is to Babson, who has only lost to Trinity (CT) and Brandeis.

Brandeis beat RIC tonight (RIC's only losses are to WPI and Brandeis).  Brandeis has lost to WPI, Lasell and UMD.  UMD had their first loss last night to Bridgewater State, who's only loss is to RIC. Lasell has lost to Western Conn, WPI and Amherst.  Amherst is the only team of those listed above that are undefeated.

Some other teams of significance, although none of these teams have played the top teams listed above (except Bowdoin):
Elms (7-0)
Gordon (6-0),
Springfield, only loss to Elms.
Bowdoin, who's only loss is to Salem State.
Westfield State, only loss to Elms.

[Ralph Turner]

Is David Collinge planning on continuing his wonderful "How They Fared" posting?

No, he is not.  Feel free to take over.

Please do, scottiedawg!  It's worth lots of karma points from grateful readers.   

[scottiedawg]

Is David Collinge planning on continuing his wonderful "How They Fared" posting?

No, he is not.  Feel free to take over.

Please do, scottiedawg!  It's worth lots of karma points from grateful readers.   

I'll do my best. 

[Ralph Turner]

Thanks, scottiedawg!  +1!   

[Greek Tragedy]

Is David Collinge planning on continuing his wonderful "How They Fared" posting?

No, he is not.  Feel free to take over.

Why not?!  I loved that stuff!

[LogShow]

As did I.  But as long as someone does it, I will be happy