Top 25 talk

[John Gleich]

I think there's something unlucky about being ranked #13...

Stevens Point beat both St. Thomas and Whitewater when they were 13th, and Point lost at River Falls last night... after being ranked #13.

And Wheaton rose to #13 in the first poll of the year... and then promptly lost!

Only Mary Hardin-Baylor (#13 in week 2) and Emory (#13 in the preseason) didn't lose the week that they were #13...

[Mr. Ypsi]

I think there's something unlucky about being ranked #13...

Stevens Point beat both St. Thomas and Whitewater when they were 13th, and Point lost at River Falls last night... after being ranked #13.

And Wheaton rose to #13 in the first poll of the year... and then promptly lost!

Only Mary Hardin-Baylor (#13 in week 2) and Emory (#13 in the preseason) didn't lose the week that they were #13...

There's a Friday the 13th this month.  If the #13 team this coming week has a game, they'd better watch out for any opponent named Freddy!

[sac]

I hate to disappoint people but there is no massey WIAC bias, the WIAC just plays good basketball, that's why they always rate so high.


I think Whitewater is probably pretty underrated.

[John Gleich]

I think there's something unlucky about being ranked #13...

Stevens Point beat both St. Thomas and Whitewater when they were 13th, and Point lost at River Falls last night... after being ranked #13.

And Wheaton rose to #13 in the first poll of the year... and then promptly lost!

Only Mary Hardin-Baylor (#13 in week 2) and Emory (#13 in the preseason) didn't lose the week that they were #13...

There's a Friday the 13th this month.  If the #13 team this coming week has a game, they'd better watch out for any opponent named Freddy!

Maybe it's me... Point did give WW and UST their losses... and I, of course, went to SP...

I also grew up in Wheaton.

Hmm....

[Titan Q]

From this point on, Augie, Wheaton, and IWU will all be playing CCIW teams exclusively. The pollsters will start moving those three teams up or down based upon how they do against their league brethren, so pointing out that the CCIW is down seems to me to be a fair caveat in terms of gauging those three teams.

I see Wheaton and IWU as being somewhere in the #20 to #25 range. You yourself said that they're somewhere in the #18 to #24 range. If you want to dispute the difference between the two of us on that matter, then I'd suggest that you're stealing my thunder as CCIW Chat's in-house picker of nits.

I just don't think what you posted above really matches what you posted last night at all...

It's your call, D-Mac, but if you don't want to put either Wheaton or Illinois Wesleyan in your Top 25, this is one CCIW fan who's got your back. For that matter, if you'd like to mark Augie down a bit as well, I'll support that, too.

Wheaton and Illinois Wesleyan are pretty good teams, but they're on the outer margins of the Top 25, at best. The long and short of it is that the CCIW is really down this year, and I'd hate to see any of its teams get promoted on the basis of a league reputation that really isn't deserved this season.

[smedindy]

Now we have a three-way CCIW squibble!

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I hate to disappoint people but there is no massey WIAC bias, the WIAC just plays good basketball, that's why they always rate so high.


I think Whitewater is probably pretty underrated.

Sac - are you running the Massey ratings?  Just curious how you know there is no bias... and there is a lot of good basketball being played around the country - though the WIAC is consistent.

Now we have a three-way CCIW squibble!

There is joke/comment I am resisting very much to say.......... oh.......... Pat would understand... "that's what ..." I CAN'T DO IT!

[Gregory Sager]

From this point on, Augie, Wheaton, and IWU will all be playing CCIW teams exclusively. The pollsters will start moving those three teams up or down based upon how they do against their league brethren, so pointing out that the CCIW is down seems to me to be a fair caveat in terms of gauging those three teams.

I see Wheaton and IWU as being somewhere in the #20 to #25 range. You yourself said that they're somewhere in the #18 to #24 range. If you want to dispute the difference between the two of us on that matter, then I'd suggest that you're stealing my thunder as CCIW Chat's in-house picker of nits.

I just don't think what you posted above really matches what you posted last night at all...

It's your call, D-Mac, but if you don't want to put either Wheaton or Illinois Wesleyan in your Top 25, this is one CCIW fan who's got your back. For that matter, if you'd like to mark Augie down a bit as well, I'll support that, too.

Wheaton and Illinois Wesleyan are pretty good teams, but they're on the outer margins of the Top 25, at best. The long and short of it is that the CCIW is really down this year, and I'd hate to see any of its teams get promoted on the basis of a league reputation that really isn't deserved this season.

I don't know how you don't think what I posted today matches what I posted yesterday.

I hate to disappoint people but there is no massey WIAC bias, the WIAC just plays good basketball, that's why they always rate so high.

I think Whitewater is probably pretty underrated.

This is a good object lesson for me. I haven't practiced what I preach with regard to making summary judgments after seeing only one game. I saw UWW the opening weekend of the season, and I was very underwhelmed by the Warhawks. They didn't look anything like the hyperathletic juggernaut that I'm used to seeing in UWW purple, and I said so. A month and a half later, it looks as though the Warhawks are much better than I thought at first. It's hard to argue not only with their record, but with their results in terms of the teams that they've beaten and the margins by which they've done so.

[Pat Coleman]

I hate to disappoint people but there is no massey WIAC bias, the WIAC just plays good basketball, that's why they always rate so high.


I think Whitewater is probably pretty underrated.

I'm not saying the WIAC shouldn't be rated highly in Massey, don't get me wrong. It's when other conferences get dragged up because they have a couple crossover games that I think doesn't work.

[magicman]

From this point on, Augie, Wheaton, and IWU will all be playing CCIW teams exclusively. The pollsters will start moving those three teams up or down based upon how they do against their league brethren, so pointing out that the CCIW is down seems to me to be a fair caveat in terms of gauging those three teams.

I see Wheaton and IWU as being somewhere in the #20 to #25 range. You yourself said that they're somewhere in the #18 to #24 range. If you want to dispute the difference between the two of us on that matter, then I'd suggest that you're stealing my thunder as CCIW Chat's in-house picker of nits.

I just don't think what you posted above really matches what you posted last night at all...

It's your call, D-Mac, but if you don't want to put either Wheaton or Illinois Wesleyan in your Top 25, this is one CCIW fan who's got your back. For that matter, if you'd like to mark Augie down a bit as well, I'll support that, too.

Wheaton and Illinois Wesleyan are pretty good teams, but they're on the outer margins of the Top 25, at best. The long and short of it is that the CCIW is really down this year, and I'd hate to see any of its teams get promoted on the basis of a league reputation that really isn't deserved this season.

Titan Q,
Maybe I'm missing something but I think both of Greg's statements say pretty much the same thing. Wheaton and IWU being in the 20-25 range or Wheaton and IWU being on the outer margins of the Top 25 (which I took to being in the 20-25 range) seems rather similar to me. Maybe you're interpreting "the outer margins" to be something different than what I am. (or Greg is) Now if Mr. Sager means by the "outer margins of the Top 25", well into the  "others receiving votes" category, I'd have to agree with you. But he did say the Top 25 and not the ORV.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Now we have a three-way CCIW squibble!

Huh?  augie_superfan merely updated his stats (with no commentary), and I'm on a different conversation entirely.  Who is CCIW #3?

Oh all right, I'll squibble JUST a bit to make you happy.   I'll go more with Q.  I think Wheaton and IWU are already shown to be lower top 25.  Greg's initial post (admitting to being 'Benedict Arnold') certainly did not sound like he agreed (despite his later disclaimer).  And if all other CCIW teams are consigned to the trashheap, how could conference play possibly elevate Wheaton and IWU into the Top 25 (If they are not already deserving)?

I guess I kind of started it all by suggesting Wheaton would drop out of the Top 25 (a loss when one is #23 will usually do that, unless the victor is ranked higher), and IWU would not enter (with only 4 points previously [all by Q?], Top 25 would be quite a jump for beating #23 at home in OT).  I was simply predicting voter behavior, not pontificating on where I thought they SHOULD be ranked.

[Mr. Ypsi]

magicman, I won't presume to speak for Greg, but I (like Q, apparently) read "outer margins of the Top 25" akin to "outer margins of the bubble" (i.e., you ain't likely to get in).

Greg?

[magicman]

I hate to disappoint people but there is no massey WIAC bias, the WIAC just plays good basketball, that's why they always rate so high.


I think Whitewater is probably pretty underrated.

I'm not saying the WIAC shouldn't be rated highly in Massey, don't get me wrong. It's when other conferences get dragged up because they have a couple crossover games that I think doesn't work.

I agree with you Pat, that's exactly the problem with Massey. Especially when those other conferences are playing WIAC teams on the lower end of the totem pole. And the WIAC isn't the only conference that this has happened with. The UAA and NESCAC has had that same effect at times.

[magicman]

magicman, I won't presume to speak for Greg, but I (like Q, apparently) read "outer margins of the Top 25" akin to "outer margins of the bubble" (i.e., you ain't likely to get in).

Greg?

Well, that's an entirely different argument isnt it? I didn't think we were discussing Pool C bids.

[Mr. Ypsi]

magicman, I won't presume to speak for Greg, but I (like Q, apparently) read "outer margins of the Top 25" akin to "outer margins of the bubble" (i.e., you ain't likely to get in).

Greg?

Well, that's an entirely different argument isnt it? I didn't think we were discussing Pool C bids.

I said 'akin', not the same thing!  If read as 'akin', it would mean "you ain't likely to be IN the Top 25".