Top 25 talk

[fritzdis]

The vaunted F&M defense didn't stop him much tonight.

The vaunted F&M defense relies on Matt Porter, who was injured 7 minutes into the game.  MIT had scored 5 points.  He didn't return until the second half and was clearly hobbled.

It would have been great to be able to see both teams at full strength.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

The vaunted F&M defense didn't stop him much tonight.

The vaunted F&M defense relies on Matt Porter, who was injured 7 minutes into the game.  MIT had scored 5 points.  He didn't return until the second half and was clearly hobbled.

It would have been great to be able to see both teams at full strength.

It's amazing to see how much difference one player makes.  Didn't even look like the same team out there.  Also, the MIT big guys really figured out what Amherst's bigs didn't and were able to play aggressive without getting into foul trouble.  I guess I can't underestimate MIT anymore.

[Hugenerd]

The vaunted F&M defense didn't stop him much tonight.

The vaunted F&M defense relies on Matt Porter, who was injured 7 minutes into the game.  MIT had scored 5 points.  He didn't return until the second half and was clearly hobbled.

It would have been great to be able to see both teams at full strength.

MIT wasn't at full strength either, their starting 3 didn't play the whole game (he has been out since the first game of the tourney).  Billy Bender is also considered the wing 'stopper' for MIT, but they have been able to adjust without him the last 3 games. Given how short Coach Anderson has his bench, its been amazing to watch the guys adjust to losing one of their starters who has played ~30+ mpg all season.

The vaunted F&M defense didn't stop him much tonight.

The vaunted F&M defense relies on Matt Porter, who was injured 7 minutes into the game.  MIT had scored 5 points.  He didn't return until the second half and was clearly hobbled.

It would have been great to be able to see both teams at full strength.

It's amazing to see how much difference one player makes.  Didn't even look like the same team out there.  Also, the MIT big guys really figured out what Amherst's bigs didn't and were able to play aggressive without getting into foul trouble.  I guess I can't underestimate MIT anymore.

Will Tashman did foul out, although 2-3 of those fouls called on him were on illegal screen called in the last 10 minutes of the game.

That still doesn't explain why F&M couldn't score any points.  Do you think Matt Porter would have helped them score a ton more points (F&M had 44 points through 37.5 minutes when they went to the 'garbage time' style play).  Also, I dont think Porter would have had much to do defensively with Kates, he and Milligan were matched up against eachother the whole night and Kates was getting a lot done, both taking the ball to the rim and with a few pull-ups he knocked down.   If Porter would have helped off Karraker to stop his drives, I am certain that would have only opened more wide open 3s for Karraker, as Kates is very good at finding the open man when he draws help.

[r.w. mcnickels]

Mitch Kates, MIT's PG, also outplayed Milligan pretty thoroughly on both ends of the court (don't let the boxscore fool you, Milligan had 9 points in garbage time to boost his numbers--the first 37.5 minutes of the game Kates held him to 14 points on 5-16 shooting, only 2 assists and 4 TOs). Kates was spectacular in the way he controlled the tempo of the game, if you didn't see it, the boxscore doesn't do it justice (his line was pretty darn good anyway, 21 points, 8 assists, 3 steals, 3 boards, and a block).  Also, I dont want my post to be interpreted as meaning that Milligan isnt good, he is a spectacular, All-American guard. I just think it was clear that Kates outplayed him tonight and he deserves similar national recognition.

Kates is an excellent guard who should be an All-American, and he did outplay Milligan last night. But it would have been nice to see Milligan at 100 percent for this game. He suffered a foot injury against Amherst and had a lot of pain walking. Taking nothing away from MIT, but it was a different Milligan out there last night.

[Knightstalker]

Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda, if your aunt had balls she would be your uncle.  You play with who you got and you don't cry injury.  I can almost guarantee the players aren't crying injury, they are probably all blaming themselves individually for not stepping up and doing more, at least most athletes at every level I have known think this way.

[fritzdis]

The vaunted F&M defense didn't stop him much tonight.

The vaunted F&M defense relies on Matt Porter, who was injured 7 minutes into the game.  MIT had scored 5 points.  He didn't return until the second half and was clearly hobbled.

It would have been great to be able to see both teams at full strength.

MIT wasn't at full strength either, their starting 3 didn't play the whole game (he has been out since the first game of the tourney).  Billy Bender is also considered the wing 'stopper' for MIT, but they have been able to adjust without him the last 3 games. Given how short Coach Anderson has his bench, its been amazing to watch the guys adjust to losing one of their starters who has played ~30+ mpg all season.

That's why I said both teams.

The vaunted F&M defense didn't stop him much tonight.

The vaunted F&M defense relies on Matt Porter, who was injured 7 minutes into the game.  MIT had scored 5 points.  He didn't return until the second half and was clearly hobbled.

It would have been great to be able to see both teams at full strength.

It's amazing to see how much difference one player makes.  Didn't even look like the same team out there.  Also, the MIT big guys really figured out what Amherst's bigs didn't and were able to play aggressive without getting into foul trouble.  I guess I can't underestimate MIT anymore.

Will Tashman did foul out, although 2-3 of those fouls called on him were on illegal screen called in the last 10 minutes of the game.

That still doesn't explain why F&M couldn't score any points.  Do you think Matt Porter would have helped them score a ton more points (F&M had 44 points through 37.5 minutes when they went to the 'garbage time' style play).  Also, I dont think Porter would have had much to do defensively with Kates, he and Milligan were matched up against eachother the whole night and Kates was getting a lot done, both taking the ball to the rim and with a few pull-ups he knocked down.   If Porter would have helped off Karraker to stop his drives, I am certain that would have only opened more wide open 3s for Karraker, as Kates is very good at finding the open man when he draws help.

Not a ton more points, but he would have been more effective offensively than F&M's other guards.  I guarantee Porter would have gotten matched up with Kates with Milligan struggling to stop him.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

The vaunted F&M defense didn't stop him much tonight.

The vaunted F&M defense relies on Matt Porter, who was injured 7 minutes into the game.  MIT had scored 5 points.  He didn't return until the second half and was clearly hobbled.

It would have been great to be able to see both teams at full strength.

MIT wasn't at full strength either, their starting 3 didn't play the whole game (he has been out since the first game of the tourney).  Billy Bender is also considered the wing 'stopper' for MIT, but they have been able to adjust without him the last 3 games. Given how short Coach Anderson has his bench, its been amazing to watch the guys adjust to losing one of their starters who has played ~30+ mpg all season.

The vaunted F&M defense didn't stop him much tonight.

The vaunted F&M defense relies on Matt Porter, who was injured 7 minutes into the game.  MIT had scored 5 points.  He didn't return until the second half and was clearly hobbled.

It would have been great to be able to see both teams at full strength.

It's amazing to see how much difference one player makes.  Didn't even look like the same team out there.  Also, the MIT big guys really figured out what Amherst's bigs didn't and were able to play aggressive without getting into foul trouble.  I guess I can't underestimate MIT anymore.

Will Tashman did foul out, although 2-3 of those fouls called on him were on illegal screen called in the last 10 minutes of the game.

That still doesn't explain why F&M couldn't score any points.  Do you think Matt Porter would have helped them score a ton more points (F&M had 44 points through 37.5 minutes when they went to the 'garbage time' style play).  Also, I dont think Porter would have had much to do defensively with Kates, he and Milligan were matched up against eachother the whole night and Kates was getting a lot done, both taking the ball to the rim and with a few pull-ups he knocked down.   If Porter would have helped off Karraker to stop his drives, I am certain that would have only opened more wide open 3s for Karraker, as Kates is very good at finding the open man when he draws help.

No, that's the point.  MIT stopped their interior scoring, which Amherst was incredibly unable to do.  I was only saying the defense may have kept MIT's scoring down a bit.  With the game I saw last night, there's no doubt that MIT was the better team.  I'm just not sure what happened to F&M from Friday to Saturday - and I was offering some suggestions.

I'm not sure what you want from me.  I was rooting for MIT and I was simply stating my impressions from being there and watching them play.  I don't think MIT from Friday would have beaten F&M from Friday, but they didn't play Friday.  I am not going to underestimate MIT any more.

[Hugenerd]

The vaunted F&M defense didn't stop him much tonight.

The vaunted F&M defense relies on Matt Porter, who was injured 7 minutes into the game.  MIT had scored 5 points.  He didn't return until the second half and was clearly hobbled.

It would have been great to be able to see both teams at full strength.

MIT wasn't at full strength either, their starting 3 didn't play the whole game (he has been out since the first game of the tourney).  Billy Bender is also considered the wing 'stopper' for MIT, but they have been able to adjust without him the last 3 games. Given how short Coach Anderson has his bench, its been amazing to watch the guys adjust to losing one of their starters who has played ~30+ mpg all season.

The vaunted F&M defense didn't stop him much tonight.

The vaunted F&M defense relies on Matt Porter, who was injured 7 minutes into the game.  MIT had scored 5 points.  He didn't return until the second half and was clearly hobbled.

It would have been great to be able to see both teams at full strength.

It's amazing to see how much difference one player makes.  Didn't even look like the same team out there.  Also, the MIT big guys really figured out what Amherst's bigs didn't and were able to play aggressive without getting into foul trouble.  I guess I can't underestimate MIT anymore.

Will Tashman did foul out, although 2-3 of those fouls called on him were on illegal screen called in the last 10 minutes of the game.

That still doesn't explain why F&M couldn't score any points.  Do you think Matt Porter would have helped them score a ton more points (F&M had 44 points through 37.5 minutes when they went to the 'garbage time' style play).  Also, I dont think Porter would have had much to do defensively with Kates, he and Milligan were matched up against eachother the whole night and Kates was getting a lot done, both taking the ball to the rim and with a few pull-ups he knocked down.   If Porter would have helped off Karraker to stop his drives, I am certain that would have only opened more wide open 3s for Karraker, as Kates is very good at finding the open man when he draws help.

No, that's the point.  MIT stopped their interior scoring, which Amherst was incredibly unable to do.  I was only saying the defense may have kept MIT's scoring down a bit.  With the game I saw last night, there's no doubt that MIT was the better team.  I'm just not sure what happened to F&M from Friday to Saturday - and I was offering some suggestions.

I'm not sure what you want from me.  I was rooting for MIT and I was simply stating my impressions from being there and watching them play.  I don't think MIT from Friday would have beaten F&M from Friday, but they didn't play Friday.  I am not going to underestimate MIT any more.

I dont think they would have played the same type of game on Friday if they were playing F&M.  They adjust to their opponents and CSI and F&M are very different teams.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

The vaunted F&M defense didn't stop him much tonight.

The vaunted F&M defense relies on Matt Porter, who was injured 7 minutes into the game.  MIT had scored 5 points.  He didn't return until the second half and was clearly hobbled.

It would have been great to be able to see both teams at full strength.

MIT wasn't at full strength either, their starting 3 didn't play the whole game (he has been out since the first game of the tourney).  Billy Bender is also considered the wing 'stopper' for MIT, but they have been able to adjust without him the last 3 games. Given how short Coach Anderson has his bench, its been amazing to watch the guys adjust to losing one of their starters who has played ~30+ mpg all season.

The vaunted F&M defense didn't stop him much tonight.

The vaunted F&M defense relies on Matt Porter, who was injured 7 minutes into the game.  MIT had scored 5 points.  He didn't return until the second half and was clearly hobbled.

It would have been great to be able to see both teams at full strength.

It's amazing to see how much difference one player makes.  Didn't even look like the same team out there.  Also, the MIT big guys really figured out what Amherst's bigs didn't and were able to play aggressive without getting into foul trouble.  I guess I can't underestimate MIT anymore.

Will Tashman did foul out, although 2-3 of those fouls called on him were on illegal screen called in the last 10 minutes of the game.

That still doesn't explain why F&M couldn't score any points.  Do you think Matt Porter would have helped them score a ton more points (F&M had 44 points through 37.5 minutes when they went to the 'garbage time' style play).  Also, I dont think Porter would have had much to do defensively with Kates, he and Milligan were matched up against eachother the whole night and Kates was getting a lot done, both taking the ball to the rim and with a few pull-ups he knocked down.   If Porter would have helped off Karraker to stop his drives, I am certain that would have only opened more wide open 3s for Karraker, as Kates is very good at finding the open man when he draws help.

No, that's the point.  MIT stopped their interior scoring, which Amherst was incredibly unable to do.  I was only saying the defense may have kept MIT's scoring down a bit.  With the game I saw last night, there's no doubt that MIT was the better team.  I'm just not sure what happened to F&M from Friday to Saturday - and I was offering some suggestions.

I'm not sure what you want from me.  I was rooting for MIT and I was simply stating my impressions from being there and watching them play.  I don't think MIT from Friday would have beaten F&M from Friday, but they didn't play Friday.  I am not going to underestimate MIT any more.

I dont think they would have played the same type of game on Friday if they were playing F&M.  They adjust to their opponents and CSI and F&M are very different teams.

True enough.  They were sloppier Friday, but they didn't need to be quite as "on" as they would have against another team.  I was just much more impressed by Saturday than Friday.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

So the final poll is out.  I think it's interesting that the voters, who thought IWU was not in the top 25 would put them above MIT, who seemed to have respect all season long.

I guess the rationale is that IWU was closer to Cabrini than MIT was to Whitewater?

[sac]

So the final poll is out.  I think it's interesting that the voters, who thought IWU was not in the top 25 would put them above MIT, who seemed to have respect all season long.

I guess the rationale is that IWU was closer to Cabrini than MIT was to Whitewater?

I don't understand either Cabrini or IWU at #2 or #3.......both were one shot away from being eliminated in round two.  They both did well in the tournament but does that erase what other teams were able to accomplish.

Such as......Wheaton beat IWU 2 out of 3 times this season.   North Central beat IWU twice.  I don't really see how IWU's deeper run trumps those two head-to-head results just because IWU went further and won 4 games in the tournament.  One of them an epic 2OT game that could have gone either way a dozen different ways.

I can certainly see why Cabrini was voted #2 by some they looked good and nearly pulled off the title, but again a narrow 2 point win in OT in round 2, and a last second shot win in the semi-final over a previously unranked IWU.  Not to mention an 18 point collapse to Whitewater.  Is this the stuff of a #2? 

A little bit of final four hangover voting here I think.

[Titan Q]

So the final poll is out.  I think it's interesting that the voters, who thought IWU was not in the top 25 would put them above MIT, who seemed to have respect all season long.

I guess the rationale is that IWU was closer to Cabrini than MIT was to Whitewater?

Watching the 4 teams play in Salem, it seemed like UW-Whitewater, Cabrini, and IWU were pretty even...with MIT being just a little bit behind.  That also seemed to be the consensus of the large group of coaches in Salem (that MIT was the 4th best team there).

IWU put 3 great wins on the board since that last Week 13 poll:

- @ #1 Hope
- @ #15 Wooster
- vs #22 Wittenberg

And lost to national runner up Cabrini in the final seconds.

[Titan Q]

So the final poll is out.  I think it's interesting that the voters, who thought IWU was not in the top 25 would put them above MIT, who seemed to have respect all season long.

I guess the rationale is that IWU was closer to Cabrini than MIT was to Whitewater?

I don't understand either Cabrini or IWU at #2 or #3.......both were one shot away from being eliminated in round two.  They both did well in the tournament but does that erase what other teams were able to accomplish.

Such as......Wheaton beat IWU 2 out of 3 times this season.   North Central beat IWU twice.  I don't really see how IWU's deeper run trumps those two head-to-head results just because IWU went further and won 4 games in the tournament.  One of them an epic 2OT game that could have gone either way a dozen different ways.

I can certainly see why Cabrini was voted #2 by some they looked good and nearly pulled off the title, but again a narrow 2 point win in OT in round 2, and a last second shot win in the semi-final over a previously unranked IWU.  Not to mention an 18 point collapse to Whitewater.  Is this the stuff of a #2? 

A little bit of final four hangover voting here I think.

You're telling me that Cabrini didn't lay claim to #2 with the way they played national champion UW-Whitewater??

As far as their OT win @ Hobart, many national championship runs include some kind of last second win vs an inferior team...it happens often.  Off the top of my head, IWU in 1997 vs Rose-Hulman...and Wash U a few years back vs Elmhurst.

[sac]

Its just my opinion Q, not a slight towards IWU.  I was at the Hope/IWU game, you know that.  But it just seems the regular season is being dismissed a little here.

[ronk]

So the final poll is out.  I think it's interesting that the voters, who thought IWU was not in the top 25 would put them above MIT, who seemed to have respect all season long.

I guess the rationale is that IWU was closer to Cabrini than MIT was to Whitewater?

Watching the 4 teams play in Salem, it seemed like UW-Whitewater, Cabrini, and IWU were pretty even...with MIT being just a little bit behind.  That also seemed to be the consensus of the large group of coaches in Salem (that MIT was the 4th best team there).

IWU put 3 great wins on the board since that last Week 13 poll:

- @ #1 Hope
- @ #15 Wooster
- vs #22 Wittenberg

And lost to national runner up Cabrini in the final seconds.

Scranton put 3 great wins on the board since that last Week 13 poll:

- vs Messiah
- vs Becker
@ #4 Middlebury

And lost to national runner up Cabrini in the final minutes.