Top 25 talk

[John Gleich]

UWRF leads #15 St Thomas 52-49 with 11:29 left in the 2nd half

[John Gleich]

#2 IWU trails Loras 75-70 with 3:35 in the 2nd

[John Gleich]

Loras leads #2 IWU by 4 with under a minute, 1 FT coming.  Good, 77-72

2 top 5 teams going down in a week?

:25.3 left, IWU to the line for 2

[John Gleich]

UWRF leads #15 St Thomas 52-49 with 11:29 left in the 2nd half

UST leads 66-64 over UWRF under 4:00

[John Gleich]

Loras takes down their second top 5 CCIW team... Is North Central next?

Loras wins 80-75 over #2 IWU

[sac]

Three cheers for pre-season polls.

[WUPHF]

Whitman playing Washington University close in St. Louis.  Bears lead 55-49.

[WUPHF]

WUSTL defeats Whitman 76-68.

[John Gleich]

I was going to call it a night and sum everything up... there's one more top 25 game of consequence:

Colorado College @ #12 Whitworth

Live Stats  CC is currently leading 37-29 with 0:49 remaining in the first half.


#2 IWU - 11/23 vs Loras L 80-75
#3 Williams - 11/15 vs S. Vermont (neutral) L 88-87
#5 Wheaton - 11/19 @ Loras L 74-73; 11/23 @ #8 Wooster L 77-73
#6 North Central - 11/16 vs DePauw L 77-64; 11/23 @ Aurora L 91-82
#9 WPI - 11/23 @ Castleton St L 77-65
#10 St Mary's MD - 11/22 #19 Cabrini L 84-78 (neutral)
#15 St. Thomas - 11/15 @ Pomona-Pitzer L 80-77
#16 Randolph Macon -11/16 @ Scranton L 78-76; 11/19 vs Christopher Newport  L 84-83
#18 Middlebury - 11/22 @ Stevenson L 80-69
#20 Morrisville St - 11/17 @ NYU L 80-63;11/20  @ Geneseo St L 89-82
#21 Alvernia - 11/15 vs #18 Middlebury L 81-71 (neutral)
#22 Rhode Island College - 11/15 vs Skidmore L 79-70 (neutral); vs Lasell L 98-94
#23 Centre - 11/18 @ Franklin L 102-97


And either #10 St. Mary's or #18 Middlebury is going to pick up loss #2, as they play on Sunday.


That's at least 19 losses by top 25 teams (would be 21 if Whitworth loses tonight and Salisbury takes out Cabrini tomorrow). Pretty crazy...

[Gregory Sager]

Three cheers for pre-season polls.

Precisely. More than anything else, PS's chart o' losses posted above indicates that a preseason poll holds no value other than as a conversation piece and/or a promotional tool.

What has always gotten my dander up is the fact that the first in-season poll is based in large part upon the preseason poll, as well as actual early-season results. That taints the first poll; and because the first poll is tainted, the second poll (which is based upon the first poll plus another week's worth of results) is also tainted, albeit somewhat less so. And so on and so forth, until you finally get to the point somewhere in late December (hopefully) when the stink of the preseason poll has finally been leached out of the current Top 25.

[John Gleich]

Down goes Whitworth 65-60 to Colorado College


#2 IWU - 11/23 vs Loras L 80-75
#3 Williams - 11/15 vs S. Vermont (neutral) L 88-87
#5 Wheaton - 11/19 @ Loras L 74-73; 11/23 @ #8 Wooster L 77-73
#6 North Central - 11/16 vs DePauw L 77-64; 11/23 @ Aurora L 91-82
#9 WPI - 11/23 @ Castleton St L 77-65
#10 St Mary's MD - 11/22 #19 Cabrini L 84-78 (neutral)
#12 Whitworth - 11/23 Colorado College L 65-60
#15 St. Thomas - 11/15 @ Pomona-Pitzer L 80-77
#16 Randolph Macon -11/16 @ Scranton L 78-76; 11/19 vs Christopher Newport  L 84-83
#18 Middlebury - 11/22 @ Stevenson L 80-69
#20 Morrisville St - 11/17 @ NYU L 80-63;11/20  @ Geneseo St L 89-82
#21 Alvernia - 11/15 vs #18 Middlebury L 81-71 (neutral)
#22 Rhode Island College - 11/15 vs Skidmore L 79-70 (neutral); vs Lasell L 98-94
#23 Centre - 11/18 @ Franklin L 102-97


And either #10 St. Mary's or #18 Middlebury is going to pick up loss #2, as they play on Sunday.


That's at least 19 20 losses by top 25 teams (would be 21 if Whitworth loses tonight and Salisbury takes out Cabrini tomorrow). Pretty crazy...

[David Collinge]

..a preseason poll holds no value other than as a conversation piece and/or a promotional tool.

What other value is it supposed to hold? Even when highly accurate, in D3 hoops at least, that's all a voter poll is meant to achieve.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

By the way... it really doesn't matter where teams were ranked or who was ranked... when we have had this many losses in the top fifty teams in the country. You may go through that list and see losses and assume they shouldn't be ranked... but even if we did the list over and over and over and over again... there would be quite a number of losses in the preseason Top 25 this season... because no one seems to be getting off on the right foot.

[Charles]

Polling is over rated at this time of the year. who came back, who didn't what is the stregnth of the opponents?

I saw the #9 team lst year have to travel to the #8 team in the NCAAa in the seond round.

Team in NE play many more bad teams night in night out than mid atlantic, or midwest.

Polling is more for us fans at this point.

[John Gleich]

#2 IWU - 11/23 vs Loras L 80-75
#3 Williams - 11/15 vs S. Vermont (neutral) L 88-87
#5 Wheaton - 11/19 @ Loras L 74-73; 11/23 @ #8 Wooster L 77-73
#6 North Central - 11/16 vs DePauw L 77-64; 11/23 @ Aurora L 91-82
#9 WPI - 11/23 @ Castleton St L 77-65
#10 St Mary's MD - 11/22 #19 Cabrini L 84-78 (neutral)
#12 Whitworth - 11/23 Colorado College L 65-60
#15 St. Thomas - 11/15 @ Pomona-Pitzer L 80-77
#16 Randolph Macon -11/16 @ Scranton L 78-76; 11/19 vs Christopher Newport  L 84-83
#18 Middlebury - 11/22 @ Stevenson L 80-69; 11/23 #10 St. Mary's 81-78 (OT) (Neutral)
#20 Morrisville St - 11/17 @ NYU L 80-63;11/20  @ Geneseo St L 89-82
#21 Alvernia - 11/15 vs #18 Middlebury L 81-71 (neutral)
#22 Rhode Island College - 11/15 vs Skidmore L 79-70 (neutral); vs Lasell L 98-94
#23 Centre - 11/18 @ Franklin L 102-97


#10 St. Mary's beat #18 Middlebury today 81-78 in OT

#19 Cabrini survived against Salisbury




That's 20 losses by top 25 teams since the preseason poll came out.

It may be more fruitful to see who from the top 25 DIDN'T lose...

1. Amherst (3-0)
4. UWSP (3-0)
7. UMHB (1-0)
8. Wooster (3-0)
11. Wash U (4-0)
13. UWW (3-0)
14. Hampden-Sydney (3-0)
17. Calvin (3-0)
19. Cabrini (3-0)
24. St. Norbert (2-0)
25. Virginia Wesleyan (3-0)


And just for giggles, let's check ORV teams:

Bald Wally - (2-1) (loss @ #8 Wooster)
Wittenberg (3-1) (loss @ #5 Wheaton in OT)
Emory (3-2) (loss @ Birmingham-Southern; loss @ #25 VWC)
Augustana (3-1) (loss @ UW Platteville)
Catholic (3-1) (loss vs RV E Conn)
Trinity (Tx) (2-3) (loss vs #12 Whitworth; loss vs Pac Lutheran, loss vs RV Ohio Wesleyan)
Christopher Newport (3-1) (loss vs RV Emory)
Concordia (Tx) (1-0)
UW Stout (2-1) (loss vs NAIA Mount Mercy)
DeSales (3-1) (loss @ Arcadia)
Rochester (1-3) (loss vs Oneonta St; loss @ RV Hobart; loss @ Nazareth)
Plattsburgh St (2-1) (loss @ RV Richard Stockton)
Ithaca (2-3) (loss @ Haverford; loss @ Oswego St; loss @ RV Hobart)
Eastern Conn (3-1) (loss vs SUNY Purchase)
Transy (0-2) (loss vs Heidelberg; loss @ Thomas More)
Frank & Marsh (2-2) (loss vs Baruch; loss vs Alvernia)
Hobart (2-0)
Wesley (3-0)
Ohio Wesleyan (2-1) (loss vs La Verne)
Del Valley (3-1) (loss @ Widener)
Tufts (4-1) (loss @ Emerson)
Brandeis (3-1) (loss vs #22 RIC)
Dickinson (3-1) (loss vs Juniata)
Rich Stockton (3-0)


This is pretty unbelievable... out of a sample of 49 programs (roughly 1/6 of D-III) only 15 are undefeated after a week and a half of games.

73 programs (48 others) ARE indeed undefeated, with 2 more not having played a game up to this point.