Top 25 talk

[sac]

Rip Engle was the football coach at Penn State preceding Joe Paterno.  Seems a little old to see that many minutes.    (also kind of dead)

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

+k sac!

The early struggles I think were more the team finding themselves. Expectations are always high and I think the Frostburg State game (some call it the worst home loss in RMC history) definitely seemed to wake them up. Sometimes teams need those moments.

My struggle with the number one vote is I do start considering this time of the year whether I think the team has a legitimate chance of making the final four in Salem and whether they can win a championship. I am just not sure about RMC. It has been awhile since an ODAC team has made the run and honestly many have been disappointed over the years.

The other side of that coin is I couldn't find any team I was that sure would be in Salem... it is just that kind of year.

[y_jack_lok]

+k sac!

The early struggles I think were more the team finding themselves. Expectations are always high and I think the Frostburg State game (some call it the worst home loss in RMC history) definitely seemed to wake them up. Sometimes teams need those moments.

My struggle with the number one vote is I do start considering this time of the year whether I think the team has a legitimate chance of making the final four in Salem and whether they can win a championship. I am just not sure about RMC. It has been awhile since an ODAC team has made the run and honestly many have been disappointed over the years.

The other side of that coin is I couldn't find any team I was that sure would be in Salem... it is just that kind of year.

A valid concern after the first round exit on their home court last year.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Randolph-Macon was, in my opinion, far and away the most impressive team at the Hoopsville Classic in November.  Obviously everybody's had some issues this year.  I imagine the long winning streak got them this position.

I tend to think St. Thomas is still #1 - they lost a trap game (with the St. Olaf matchup tonight), which isn't great, but there aren't usually trap games in the tournament - I don't know that this will matter in the long run.

In any event, no one really "deserves" the #1 spot, so it's tough to argue with any of a half dozen teams getting #1 votes.

To be honest... number one teams shouldn't be losing trap games. That is why I took UST off of my number one slot.

And I do think there are trap games sometimes in round one or two... depending on the match-ups. We have seen some games that shouldn't be close become nail bitters because clearly the top team didn't take the AQ team very seriously.

And I agree, I was very impressed with RMC at the Hoopsville Classic, but some of their results after that weekend worried me. I gave them the nod because they have won 18 straight and they have taken on a lot of good teams and won. Sometimes simply winning matters the most.

Did they keep starting that freshman PG?  If so, that might explain early struggles, right?

From what I can determine, R-MC's freshman pg Rip Engle has not started any games. He is averaging 13.3 mpg for the season.

My bad.  I guess he was playing a few more minutes early in the season and, looking at the boxscore, there may have been an injury in play for the starter at the Hoopsville Classic.

[y_jack_lok]

^^^ R-MC's senior pg Marcus Badger has started all 23 games for the Jackets and is averaging 24.0 mpg, more than anyone else on the team. I'm not aware of any injury he's had, but backup senior pg Trent Walker was injured for a while the first half of the season.

[sac]

Alfred 60  # 16 St. John Fisher 59

Alfred lost this same game by 31 three and a half weeks ago

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Caltech won a third conference game last night.  Not sure if that puts them in consideration or not.

[gordonmann]

I think that puts them in the category of "teams we don't have to talk about like it's a space shuttle launch when they win a conference game."

Seriously, Caltech has been extremely bad in the past. Now they are just another well below average team so they can exchange their punchline status for anonymity.

[Pat Coleman]

For now -- it only takes one season to slide right back into the other category, though. Don't be too quick to push them out of ignominy.

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (So Far)

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	603	Randolph-Macon	22-2	def. Shenandoah, 103-72; 02/21 at Emory and Henry
#2	594	UW-Whitewater	21-3	def. UW-Oshkosh, 69-47; 02/21 at UW-Stout
#3	547	St. Thomas	21-3	def. #15 St. Olaf, 66-49; LOST to Bethel, 65-71; 02/21 vs. Hamline
#4	522	St. Norbert	21-1	02/21 vs. Cornell
#5	494	UW-Stevens Point	20-4	02/21 at UW-Superior
#6	492	Babson	22-2	def. Coast Guard, 66-51; 02/21 vs. MIT
#7	484	Albertus Magnus	22-1	def. Emmanuel, 99-89; 02/19 vs. Mount Ida; 02/21 at Anna Maria
#8	442	Augustana	20-4	02/21 at Wheaton (Ill.)
#9	414	Marietta	22-2	def. Otterbein, 95-69; 02/21 vs. Ohio Northern
#10	404	Virginia Wesleyan	20-4	def. Hampden-Sydney, 68-58; 02/21 vs. Guilford
#11	355	Dickinson	20-4	def. Muhlenberg, 53-43; 02/21 at #27 Franklin and Marshall
#12	352	WPI	20-4	won at Wheaton (Mass.), 89-43; 02/21 vs. Clark
#13	309	Johns Hopkins	21-3	won at McDaniel, 70-56; 02/21 vs. Washington College
#14	263	Catholic	21-3	won at Juniata, 75-60; 02/21 at Scranton
#15	254	St. Olaf	21-4	LOST at #3 St. Thomas, 49-66; def. Concordia-Moorhead, 65-60
#16	221	St. John Fisher	20-3	LOST at Alfred, 59-60; 02/20 at Hartwick; 02/21 at Stevens
#17	206	Ohio Wesleyan	20-4	def. Oberlin, 106-76; 02/21 at DePauw
#18	201	Emory	17-5	02/20 at Case Western Reserve; 02/22 at Carnegie Mellon
#19	192	Whitworth	20-3	02/20 at Pacific Lutheran; 02/21 at Puget Sound
#20	157	Washington U.	17-5	02/20 vs. New York University; 02/22 vs. Brandeis
#21	111	Elmhurst	19-5	02/21 at #35 Illinois Wesleyan
#22	74	Chapman	18-4	LOST at Redlands, 59-62; 02/19 vs. T#32 Cal Lutheran; 02/21 vs. La Verne
#23	71	Richard Stockton	20-5	def. Montclair State, 77-56
#24	68	Wooster	19-5	def. Allegheny, 80-63; 02/21 at Oberlin
#25	51	Eastern Connecticut	20-4	won at Western Connecticut, 70-60; 02/21 vs. Southern Maine

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	50	Penn State-Behrend	22-2	def. Hilbert, 64-62; 02/21 vs. Pitt-Greensburg
#27	40	Franklin and Marshall	19-5	LOST at Gettysburg, 62-76; 02/21 vs. #11 Dickinson
#28	29	NYU	16-6	02/20 at #20 Washington U.; 02/22 at #36 Chicago
#29	20	William Paterson	19-6	LOST to Rowan, 60-62
T#30	16	Trinity (Conn.)	19-5	02/21 vs. Colby
T#30	16	Centre	18-4	02/20 at Berry; 02/22 at Oglethorpe
T#32	11	Bates	19-5	won at St. Joseph's (Maine), 62-57; 02/21 vs. Wesleyan
T#32	11	Mount Union	18-6	LOST at #37 John Carroll, 81-88; 02/21 at Wilmington
T#32	11	Cal Lutheran	17-4	02/19 at #22 Chapman; 02/21 at Claremont-Mudd-Scripps
#35	10	Illinois Wesleyan	17-7	02/21 vs. #21 Elmhurst
#36	9	Chicago	15-7	02/20 vs. Brandeis; 02/22 vs. New York University
#37	6	John Carroll	18-5	def. T#32 Mount Union, 88-81; 02/21 at Muskingum
#38	5	Amherst	18-6	02/21 at Tufts
#39	4	Bowdoin	17-7	LOST to Husson, 61-72; 02/21 vs. Williams
T#40	2	Calvin	18-6	won at Olivet, 87-74; 02/21 at Albion
T#40	2	East Texas Baptist	19-4	02/19 at Howard Payne; 02/21 at Sul Ross State
T#42	1	Dubuque	19-5	LOST to Buena Vista, 80-94; 02/21 vs. Luther
T#42	1	Sage	20-4	won at Mount St. Mary, 93-91; 02/19 at Sarah Lawrence

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Week 2's regional rankings made an early appearance today: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/?p=2630

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (Complete)

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	603	Randolph-Macon	23-2	def. Shenandoah, 103-72; won at Emory and Henry, 82-63
#2	594	UW-Whitewater	22-3	def. UW-Oshkosh, 69-47; won at UW-Stout, 86-77
#3	547	St. Thomas	22-3	def. #15 St. Olaf, 66-49; LOST to Bethel, 65-71; def. Hamline, 89-62
#4	522	St. Norbert	22-1	def. Cornell, 58-48
#5	494	UW-Stevens Point	21-4	won at UW-Superior, 70-60
#6	492	Babson	23-2	def. Coast Guard, 66-51; def. MIT, 62-51
#7	484	Albertus Magnus	24-1	def. Emmanuel, 99-89; def. Mount Ida, 97-68; won at Anna Maria, 75-68
#8	442	Augustana	21-4	won at Wheaton (Ill.), 89-55
#9	414	Marietta	23-2	def. Otterbein, 95-69; def. Ohio Northern, 74-65
#10	404	Virginia Wesleyan	21-4	def. Hampden-Sydney, 68-58; def. Guilford, 85-64
#11	355	Dickinson	20-5	def. Muhlenberg, 53-43; LOST at #27 Franklin and Marshall, 53-69
#12	352	WPI	21-4	won at Wheaton (Mass.), 89-43; def. Clark, 61-56
#13	309	Johns Hopkins	22-3	won at McDaniel, 70-56; def. Washington College, 87-58
#14	263	Catholic	21-4	won at Juniata, 75-60; LOST at Scranton, 71-83
#15	254	St. Olaf	21-4	LOST at #3 St. Thomas, 49-66; def. Concordia-Moorhead, 65-60
#16	221	St. John Fisher	21-4	LOST at Alfred, 59-60; won at Hartwick, 69-68; LOST at Stevens, 54-60
#17	206	Ohio Wesleyan	21-4	def. Oberlin, 106-76; won at DePauw, 86-77
#18	201	Emory	19-5	won at Case Western Reserve, 71-65; won at Carnegie Mellon, 75-63
#19	192	Whitworth	22-3	won at Pacific Lutheran, 68-39; won at Puget Sound, 66-63
#20	157	Washington U.	19-5	def. New York University, 97-75; def. Brandeis, 72-44
#21	111	Elmhurst	19-6	LOST at #35 Illinois Wesleyan, 66-96
#22	74	Chapman	20-4	LOST at Redlands, 59-62; def. T#32 Cal Lutheran, 86-70; def. La Verne, 81-40
#23	71	Richard Stockton	20-5	def. Montclair State, 77-56
#24	68	Wooster	20-5	def. Allegheny, 80-63; won at Oberlin, 58-45
#25	51	Eastern Connecticut	21-4	won at Western Connecticut, 70-60; def. Southern Maine, 67-53

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	50	Penn State-Behrend	23-2	def. Hilbert, 64-62; def. Pitt-Greensburg, 91-64
#27	40	Franklin and Marshall	20-5	LOST at Gettysburg, 62-76; def. #11 Dickinson, 69-53
#28	29	NYU	16-8	LOST at #20 Washington U., 75-97; LOST at #36 Chicago, 60-77
#29	20	William Paterson	19-6	LOST to Rowan, 60-62
T#30	16	Trinity (Conn.)	20-5	def. Colby, 66-63
T#30	16	Centre	20-4	won at Berry, 71-61; won at Oglethorpe, 63-61
T#32	11	Bates	19-6	won at St. Joseph's (Maine), 62-57; LOST to Wesleyan, 59-66
T#32	11	Mount Union	19-6	LOST at #37 John Carroll, 81-88; won at Wilmington, 74-71
T#32	11	Cal Lutheran	17-6	LOST at #22 Chapman, 70-86; LOST at Claremont-Mudd-Scripps, 54-64
#35	10	Illinois Wesleyan	18-7	def. #21 Elmhurst, 96-66
#36	9	Chicago	16-8	LOST to Brandeis, 63-78; def. New York University, 77-60
#37	6	John Carroll	19-5	def. T#32 Mount Union, 88-81; won at Muskingum, 101-79
#38	5	Amherst	19-6	won at Tufts, 92-66
#39	4	Bowdoin	18-7	LOST to Husson, 61-72; def. Williams, 87-74
T#40	2	Calvin	19-6	won at Olivet, 87-74; won at Albion, 71-54
T#40	2	East Texas Baptist	20-5	LOST at Howard Payne, 77-81; won at Sul Ross State, 77-70
T#42	1	Dubuque	20-5	LOST to Buena Vista, 80-94; def. Luther, 77-63
T#42	1	Sage	21-4	won at Mount St. Mary, 93-91; won at Sarah Lawrence, 72-35

[ronk]

Rip Engle was the football coach at Penn State preceding Joe Paterno.  Seems a little old to see that many minutes.    (also kind of dead)

If I remember correctly, Rip Engle was the coach of Brown and Paterno was his smartest player so Engle hired him as an assistant coach when he got the Penn St job.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

With the new Top 25 comes my ballot: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/?p=2636

Continues to be a challenging season as a voter.

[mailsy]

A thought that came to me. When was the last time, if ever, did an unranked team going into the tourney ever win the national championship?