Top 25 talk

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I don't like NYU in the Top 25 at all... if Hakeem Hicks was there, I'd probably be voting for them, but not without (he is focusing on his studies this semester so he can graduate in a few weeks and apparently is on the Knicks practice squad from what I heard). But NYU has proven year in and year out to play well against an average to below-average out-of-conference schedule and then lay an egg when it comes to conference play. How many times have we seen NYU ranked in the out-of-conference part of the season and then disappear as voters scramble to get them off their ballots. Their only win I take note in is a three-point victory over Arcadia... the only team with a winning record ... and the rest of their non-conference slate is pretty easy. Now, I get they have dominated those opponents... but the schedule and opponents does NOTHING to prepare NYU for the UAA. Nothing. Never has; never will.

Current out-of-conference opponents record: 18-33 with ONE winning record (Arcadia's 5-1) for a .353 winning percentage. What is rest for NYU (not counting who they have already played): 6-22 (.214).

I'm not really sure why people keep buying in to NYU... but I am sure there are people who wonder why I buy into other teams I vote for, so I probably shouldn't cast any stones. However, when was the last time NYU actually ended up as good as their out-of-conference record made them look? They aren't even in the UAA conversation last year if not for Hicks showing up for the second semester.

[David Collinge]

The crazier thing to me, I don't see a single ODAC team worth voting for.  Roanoke is probably the best right now.  That's pretty unusual.

Man, do I wish Jim Loesel were still around to read this. (He's not, is he?)

[oldknight]

OK... finally got my ballot and blog posted. There was a lot to talk about this week, obviously. I do enjoy when we get further into the season and get into weekly voting as I don't have to write capsules on every single team. LOL

Here you go if you are interested: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/?p=2680

Dave: You have a far better handle nationally on teams than I do but let me give a couple of observations. Putting Hope third (or is it second?) seems about right. The Dutchmen clearly deserve a top 5 ranking. Putting OWU at 6 seems a bit too high for me. From what I've seen of these two teams, Hope is definitely better than the Bishops.  And speaking of team nicknames, you put Amherst at 5 and then boldly call them "Lord Jeffs." Apparently you're unaware some on the Amherst campus would consider that to be a microaggression for your insensitive mention of an inherently racist mascot. Or so we're told by the group Amherst Uprising: http://amherstuprising.com/demands.html (see demand 7).

Amherst President Martin refused to renounce Lord Jeffrey Amherst so stand strong Dave!

In case it's not obvious, I am teasing.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I was unaware of what was going on with the students at Amherst. There are so many protests at so many schools, I simply can't keep up... so I focus on what grabs my attention (i.e. Washington College and University of Chicago scares recently).

It is is certainly interesting per the Lord Jeffs (especially since I think the Washington NFL team should get rid of their mascot name)... but I will have to read up on it more (though, I get it has to do with smallpox and the French and Indian War). It also will be interesting to hear what the board of trustees has to say while the President continues to say no. In the meantime, I will patiently wait for the hate mail from the Amherst student-body. And I love a good natured tease. LOL

As for Hope and Ohio Wesleyan. I get your point... I would say OWU is in the area I am nervous about as well. But that isn't to say a number three team and a number six team are close together... they may be worlds apart because the difference between four and five might be just as wide. We see it in women's basketball all of the time - a large gap between the top tier and the middle tier even if they are ranked close together. Same in football.

[Titan Q]

Having watched #5 Hope and #6 OWU, I agree with oldknight that Hope is the better team...by a decent margin in my opinion.  For me, Hope's bigs are the difference.  But that said, I think OWU is ranked right where they should be.  I can't really make a case for a single team below #6 to be ranked ahead of the Bishops.

There are always tiers/separating points in the poll.  Right now, I think there is a break after #5.  Whatever the right order is for the top 5 - I think Hope might be better than Augustana, but want to see a few more games - those 5 seem to be the elite teams at this point.  I think Ohio Wesleyan on down there is a whole bunch of parity.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

In my mind, Augie, Hope, and St. Thomas are in a mini group at the top, with Whitworth and OWU behind.  Whitworth might be in the first group - they appear that way on paper - but we need some better results to know.  There might be a gap between those teams, but I'm not sure who else to make a Top 10 squad at this point.

As for NYU - I think that Arcadia win is better than most undefeated teams have.  Maybe they won't end up as a Top 25 team, but they deserve to be there right now - at least as much as anyone.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I can't buy into a team with an OOP of .353 right no even if they have a win against an Arcadia team that certainly could be beat. NYU always has a win like that in their out-of-conference and then gets lit-up in the UAA. I'm not sure it's warranted to rank a team in the Top 25 if I have no confidence they are going to win, or be in the upper tier, of their conference. I bought in to NYU last year after seeing them in person dismantle Wash U with Hicks leading the way. They were good. Hicks isn't back.

Is the Arcadia win better than others who are undefeated? Possibly, but those other teams also have either a proven track record of keeping up that winning ability in conference or have far better out-of-conference schedules in general.

It also doesn't help that when I talk to those who know NYU well, they aren't impressed, either.

Who knows... they may prove me completely wrong and I welcome that actually.

[Mr. Ypsi]

d-mac, keep up the good fight re: NYU.  I gave up on them years ago running the fan poll.  They always had a great record early; they always disappointed when push came to shove.  A steady diet of cupcakes gets you diabetes, not a UAA title or a run in the national tourney.

[WUPHF]

Thanks for discussing NYU.

I was surprised to see them in the Top 25.

Just for reference, NYU is No. 31 in Massey with a No. 321 strength of schedule.

There used to be an NYU fan who would appear midseason and complain about the terrible non-conference schedule before disappearing for the season.  He or she did not like Joe Nesci.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Massey is utterly irrelevant until at least mid-January.  At this point his data-based system has almost no data.

And in football, he is a bad joke.  He includes NESCAC in his 'data-based' system, even though they not only don't participate in the playoffs, they don't ever play anyone outside of NESCAC.  There is NO data!

[WUPHF]

Massey is utterly irrelevant until at least mid-January.  At this point his data-based system has almost no data.

I thought that went without saying but I guess I better remember to throw in the disclaimer.

[smedindy]

Massey is utterly irrelevant until at least mid-January.  At this point his data-based system has almost no data.

And in football, he is a bad joke.  He includes NESCAC in his 'data-based' system, even though they not only don't participate in the playoffs, they don't ever play anyone outside of NESCAC.  There is NO data!

That's not a bad joke. You know his reasoning. Why can't you just ignore those teams....

[sac]

Massey is utterly irrelevant until at least mid-January.  At this point his data-based system has almost no data.

A little under 20% of the season's games have been played, that's not totally irrelevant.  By this weekend it should pop over 20%.  I find Nov/Dec to be the most relevant since this is the time of the year the majority of non-conference games are played.

[Greek Tragedy]

Big game as #1 Augie heads to Whitewater tonight. The Warhawks are flying under the radar, imo, as they've won some low-profile games: coming from behind to top Ripon, and cruising over Finlandia and Ohio Northern. They hung tough and lost to #3 NAIA II Davenport (Hope losing to #2 Cornerstone recently).

Whitewater literally lost their entire roster and has several nice transfers come in and Southeast Conference  POTY Andre Brown. I think Brown was hurt last game as he started but just played 3 minutes. That could factor into tonight's game. Massey actually has Whitewater winning 71-69. I expect Augustana to win but I wouldn't be surprised if Whitewater pulls one out.

[magicman]

St John Fisher can't stand prosperity as the D3hoops 10th ranked team goes down in the first round of the Wendy's College Classic Tournament. The top seeded Cardinals matched up against the 8th seeded Tigers from RIT. The Tigers opened up a 20 point lead on Fisher at 52-32 with 14 minutes left in the game. Fisher went on a 28-6 run to take a 60-58 lead with 4 minutes remaining but the Tigers hung tough and managed to complete the upset by winning 69-64.