Top 25 talk

[ElRetornodelEspencio]

And please stop pretending I don't understand the Division III landscape. I work very, very hard to educate myself and then inform people of what is going on in the Division. You keep trying to pretend, apparently, that I don't know anything... yet, I don't think you could find anyone in this Division that feels that way. I do far more than just cover basketball in this division and your constant attempts to disrespect me and what I know is getting annoying. Maybe I should just ignore you for my own sake, but I had to at least say something before I do.

I don't believe I have said that, but if you think the games reduction in baseball was about class time, then you really don't understand that occurrence in particular, and that's demonstrable.

[ElRetornodelEspencio]

Not sure why they say they would have more expenses in Division III, unless they are in an area no where close to Division III schools - but in the south there are a lot of DIIIs.

Not really wanting to give away who I'm talking about here, but honestly I'm not sure they have a lot of good solutions either way. None of the existing D3 conferences would really work for them, but I don't think their D2 one does either. Which to me means they should be D1 (though the post about not fully funding has some merit; in D2 it's probably easier to get away with that), but they aren't.

What I mainly don't get for D2s is that it seems like a straddle strategy, which is not a strategy at all, unless it's a bad one. All in or all out.

Anyhoo, I don't think I would want to see a lot of their current league go D3 anyway.

[smedindy]

But it's not a straddle strategy. It's finances and realism in recruiting. I think a lot of the lower D-1 conferences really should be D-2 or D-3.

[ElRetornodelEspencio]

But it's not a straddle strategy. It's finances and realism in recruiting. I think a lot of the lower D-1 conferences really should be D-2 or D-3.

It is. You might not think it is, but it is.

But you're right, there's not a big difference between D1 and D2, most of the time. But there is a difference, especially in basketball, and when it comes into play, it's significant. Even low D1 is on TV a lot more than D2. Through NCAA tournament, NIT, the other tournaments now, FCS playoffs, regular season games again major conference teams (there are a few of those against D2s, but nearly not many).

D2 is the worst of both world. None of the high-end exposure potential, all of the expense (well, most of the expense).

[smedindy]

Well, the big problem is that D-2 can offer partial scholarships and D-1 can't. That's something that will help a great deal for smaller school budgets.

The only thing keeping a lot of these programs afloat are the 'guarantee games'. Most SWAC and MEAC teams are designated opponents in November and December, and that's not really fair for them or their team. And, no one really watches those anyway except the fans of the team that's buying the games.

I don't think a lot of Alabama A&M or Maryland-Eastern Shore games are on anything but ESPN 3 or a very regional network.

Example: Mississippi Valley State. I looked them up since my wife is a Michigan State alum.

They play 13 non-conference games, 12 on the road and one neutral site game at Liberty against U Mass - Lowell.

Not only do they play teams like Michigan State, West Virginia, Gonzaga and Indiana, but also Liberty, Seattle U, Grand Canyon and Drake. Those last four aren't gonna get you any exposure, and the first four will only be watched by die hard fans of those four schools, if then.

[ElRetornodelEspencio]

Wow, that was a blitzkrieg. Marietta down 42-34 with 16 min to go, just dismantled a ranked team on the road by 28 the rest of the way. 84-64 final I think it was.

Started out riding Edwards (who got 2 early fouls and didn't play a lot in the first half), which BW initially dealt with pretty well with some very physical post defense, then he got a few, then a few 3s went down and then guards were going to the basket off the dribble at will.

BW has some good players, but Marietta's improvement on defense was really evident and they dominated the boards again. Holding a team like BW to 29 in a half is just outstanding.

5 in double figures for Marietta. Keith Richardson and BW's Cam Kuhn (really good scorer) tied for game high with 17.

MC now has a win over a ranked opponent at home, on the road and on a neutral court, all by blowout. Not sure what else you can do to earn a #1 ranking.

[ElRetornodelEspencio]

Well, the big problem is that D-2 can offer partial scholarships and D-1 can't. That's something that will help a great deal for smaller school budgets.

The only thing keeping a lot of these programs afloat are the 'guarantee games'. Most SWAC and MEAC teams are designated opponents in November and December, and that's not really fair for them or their team. And, no one really watches those anyway except the fans of the team that's buying the games.

I don't think a lot of Alabama A&M or Maryland-Eastern Shore games are on anything but ESPN 3 or a very regional network.

Example: Mississippi Valley State. I looked them up since my wife is a Michigan State alum.

They play 13 non-conference games, 12 on the road and one neutral site game at Liberty against U Mass - Lowell.

Not only do they play teams like Michigan State, West Virginia, Gonzaga and Indiana, but also Liberty, Seattle U, Grand Canyon and Drake. Those last four aren't gonna get you any exposure, and the first four will only be watched by die hard fans of those four schools, if then.

Very few such things as bad publicity. The end.

Grand Canyon is actually a fantastic example of the argument for playing D1.

[smedindy]

What?

I was talking about MVSU, playing at Grand Canyon as part of their 12-game roadie to start the year. No one will watch that game, except alumni.

[smedindy]

Well., wishing Marietta to be ranked #1 is fine, but Babson just beat Tufts. So Tufts voters will probably vote up Babson at #2 or #1, and thus making it harder for Marietta to be ranked #1.

I see no reason not to have Amherst and Babson behind Marietta, if I was already voting that way.

Also, maybe B-W shouldn't have been ranked? Sometimes teams show up in the Top 25 early on, and by the end of the year you wonder why.

Wooster was probably overrated, as they barely beat a Wabash team that isn't even shaving yet.

[ElRetornodelEspencio]

What?

I was talking about MVSU, playing at Grand Canyon as part of their 12-game roadie to start the year. No one will watch that game, except alumni.

Great, now I'm talking about Grand Canyon, who drew more total fans than Arizona State last year (and it was 5806 to 5805 in per game). They're actually playing Louisville at home.

There's more than one possible experience, you know.

MVSU isn't even a reclassification -- they've been in D1 for years, so not sure what your point is. That we're even talking about an HBCU from Itta Bena, Mississippi on a D3 board really tells its own story. They've been in the tournament twice since 2008, which is probably part of why they get good guarantee games.

Both cases really prove my point that D2 is a poor choice. It would be a worse choice for both of them, and is for the vast majority of cases.

To tell the story another way, which school gets more out of their athletics -- MVSU, or nearby D2 Delta State? For that answer, I'll refer to to some guy named Jerry Rice.

[ElRetornodelEspencio]

Well., wishing Marietta to be ranked #1 is fine, but Babson just beat Tufts. So Tufts voters will probably vote up Babson at #2 or #1, and thus making it harder for Marietta to be ranked #1.

I see no reason not to have Amherst and Babson behind Marietta, if I was already voting that way.

Also, maybe B-W shouldn't have been ranked? Sometimes teams show up in the Top 25 early on, and by the end of the year you wonder why.

Wooster was probably overrated, as they barely beat a Wabash team that isn't even shaving yet.

So? Tufts is overrated too. They tried to lose at home earlier in the week to a team ranked comparably to BW.

Take down 3 ranked opponents in 6 games by 20+ points each, only 1 of them in your gym. Two of them top 10.

If the poll is about this season, which team has proven the most in their games this year, there's only one choice. If it's about who the old money is, then I guess there's more than one.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Well., wishing Marietta to be ranked #1 is fine, but Babson just beat Tufts. So Tufts voters will probably vote up Babson at #2 or #1, and thus making it harder for Marietta to be ranked #1.

I see no reason not to have Amherst and Babson behind Marietta, if I was already voting that way.

Also, maybe B-W shouldn't have been ranked? Sometimes teams show up in the Top 25 early on, and by the end of the year you wonder why.

Wooster was probably overrated, as they barely beat a Wabash team that isn't even shaving yet.

So? Tufts is overrated too. They tried to lose at home earlier in the week to a team ranked comparably to BW.

Take down 3 ranked opponents in 6 games by 20+ points each, only 1 of them in your gym. Two of them top 10.

If the poll is about this season, which team has proven the most in their games this year, there's only one choice. If it's about who the old money is, then I guess there's more than one.

Tufts is unproven and quite possibly over-ranked.  They haven't played anyone at all until today.  Amherst is, quite frankly, in the same boat.  They get Babson next week.  We'll see how it goes.

[ElRetornodelEspencio]

Babson has played a lot of oil cans and hasn't stepped in an opposing team's home gym yet. Pretty amazing considering they're more than 1/3 of the way through the schedule.

I have always said you treat every season on its own. You have a decent body of work on every team now, so no reason not to rank based on what has actually been accomplished this season rather than where you started out ranking someone.

Massey has Amherst and Babson 13 and 15 (before yesterday's games, so not include today or Whitman's win over Willamette) because they just haven't played anyone. He has Tufts 22.

He has Marietta #1 at #362 in all divisions. Whitman #2 and 410. You start getting to other D3s around 450. So basically those two are playing low D1/high D2 caliber ball. Marietta after today would be probably ranked around 30 among D2s.

Why is it that the top 3 teams in the poll are all from MA even though the computer rankings indicate much more strength in the midwest and west? Is there a regional bias among the voters?

[Mr. Ypsi]

#6 NCC 84, #16 IWU 75.  Final margin is misleading - wheels came off for the Titans over the last 5 minutes of an otherwise extremely tight contest.

[Titan Q]

#21-UW-Eau Claire 64
#9-Washington U. 50
(at Wash U)

UW-Eau Claire is now 6-0 with wins over current #10 and #9.