Top 25 talk

[HopeConvert]

I clicked "other" in favor of John Ford's Young Mr. Lincoln. While it examines Lincoln's life prior to his presidency, Ford highlights the qualities in Lincoln's character that arguably made him a good President. It's a terrific piece of film-making.

That's right: I'm choosing a combination of Ford and Lincoln. Part of my plan to get the auto-industry up and running.

[David Collinge]

That's right: I'm choosing a combination of Ford and Lincoln. Part of my plan to get the auto-industry up and running.

How mercurial of you.

[HopeConvert]

That's right: I'm choosing a combination of Ford and Lincoln. Part of my plan to get the auto-industry up and running.

How mercurial of you.

Just trying to keep my Focus.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

IMO, voters and fans usually put way too much emphasis on wins and loses in selecting the order of the Top 25.  Without Kent Raymond, Wheaton is still a very good team but are they still the best in the country?  Would you expect Wheaton to beat all of the other teams in the top 5 without Raymond?  If you can answer "Yes" to both of these questions then Wheaton is still your #1 team.  These are questions that should be asked on a weekly basis in addition to the usual W/L comparison.

KnightSlappy - you raise a good point, but the wins and loses still come into play. I certainly debated about moving Wheaton to a new spot on my ballot this week, but I ultimately decided that I wasn't going to punish let alone assume the team was worse then in the position I had them until it was proven to me otherwise. Sure, my thought is that Wheaton probably isn't as good without Raymond, but many teams have sometimes proven they are just as good when a major contributor has gone down. So to decided in advance that they should be moved downward in my poll before they had a chance to really prove one way or another.

I realize this may not be the best comparison, but remember last year when Wash U lost Sean Wallis to a season-ending injury just a few games into the season? No one knew what to expect from them and while they certainly lost a couple of games (moving them down in the rankings), they ultimately won the national title. Who says that without Raymond for a few weeks or the season Wheaton can't find a way to do the same thing. So until they start showing they are a different team essentially (besides on paper), I wasn't able to convince myself to make the move on Wheaton.

I hope that made sense!

[Pat Coleman]

I am not afraid to move teams down on my ballot who haven't lost, but I won't move a team down solely based on an injury.

If Wheaton had struggled to win at Millikin, though, without Raymond, then the Thunder would have moved down my ballot.

A team that moved down my ballot without losing was Buena Vista.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Yeah - that is a good point. I have moved teams down who haven't lost or played, but that usually means I had another team I wanted to put in their place, not solely because I wanted to just move a team down. However, moving a team due to injury alone is what I was trying to get at.

[Gregory Sager]

Best presidential movie: Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb

[KnightSlappy]

d-mac and Pat,
Your methods aren't wrong, my point was that there are other ways to look at the situation as well.  Some people seem to say that you can't move a team down without losing (I especially hear this with college football).  IMO, a ranking isn't a prize to be won or lost necessarily.  It is more of a measure of the voters confidence in the team.  If my confidence in Wheaton goes down without Kent, I may move them down.  That being said, if they lose without him I may move them back up when/if he returns to his usual effectiveness.

It's certainly not wrong to keep Wheaton #1, I am just trying to say that it isn't wrong for a voter to drop them a place or two.

[April]

I hope we never have an unrelated poll at the top of this board ever again. The pedestrian comments are kinda frustrating even though I am partially to blame. 

Wheaton is up by 12 at home vs Carthage at the half.

They're holding Carthage's star player to a miraculous 2 pts through the first half (thus far this season Steve D has averaged 30.2ppg).

Carthage is shooting a mere 25% from the field to Wheaton's 50% (60% from 3pt range).

Live Stats: http://livestats.internetconsult.com/wheaton/mbball/
TV Broadcast: http://www.wetn.org

[John Gleich]

Carthage comes from 14 down at the half to knock of #1 Wheaton 55-54.

...Now it might be appropriate to talk about what to do with Wheaton...



Up north, Platteville knocks off WW 86-78

[Hugenerd]

I hope we never have an unrelated poll at the top of this board ever again. The pedestrian comments are kinda frustrating even though I am partially to blame. 

Wheaton is up by 12 at home vs Carthage at the half.

They're holding Carthage's star player to a miraculous 2 pts through the first half (thus far this season Steve D has averaged 30.2ppg).

Carthage is shooting a mere 25% from the field to Wheaton's 50% (60% from 3pt range).

Live Stats: http://livestats.internetconsult.com/wheaton/mbball/
TV Broadcast: http://www.wetn.org

Steve D's previous low on the season was 23, but he was held to 17 on the night (15 in the 2nd half).  It didnt matter though, Wheaton just couldnt make their FTs tonight, finishing 11-24 from the line...they had been 79.6% on the season.

[HopeConvert]

Best presidential movie: Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb

Great movie, but I'm not sure about the genre classification.

[Gregory Sager]

Best presidential movie: Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb

Great movie, but I'm not sure about the genre classification.

Why wouldn't it be a "president" movie? Just because amusingly-named Pres. Merkin Muffley wasn't exactly an inspiring leader shouldn't disqualify the whole movie.

[David Collinge]

Best presidential movie: Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb

Great movie, but I'm not sure about the genre classification.

It's got far more presidential screen time than All the President's Men.  Plus fighting in the war room!

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (So Far)

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	618	Wheaton (Ill.)	15-1	LOST (at home) to #36 Carthage, 54-55; 01/24 vs. #19 Elmhurst
#2	602	St. Thomas	16-0	def. Hamline, 64-59; def. Concordia-Moorhead, 83-61; 01/24 at St. Olaf
#3	578	Washington U.	13-1	01/23 at T#37 Rochester; 01/25 at #18 Carnegie Mellon
#4	540	UW-Stevens Point	14-2	def. UW-Eau Claire, 80-60; 01/24 vs. UW-Oshkosh
#5	483	UW-Platteville	15-2	def. #7 UW-Whitewater, 86-78; 01/24 at UW-Stout
#6	478	Buena Vista	15-2	LOST at Wartburg, 66-80; def. Luther, 66-51; 01/24 vs. Simpson
#7	461	UW-Whitewater	14-3	LOST at #5 UW-Platteville, 78-86; 01/24 vs. UW-Superior
#8	444	Capital	15-1	def. Marietta, 84-75; 01/24 vs. Baldwin-Wallace
#9	436	Amherst	13-2	LOST (at home) to Brandeis, 58-73; 01/24 at Trinity (Conn.)
#10	372	Trinity (Texas)	14-1	01/23 vs. Sewanee; 01/25 vs. Oglethorpe
#11	339	Puget Sound	13-2	01/23 vs. Pacific; 01/24 vs. Willamette
#12	305	Ithaca	14-1	01/25 at Stevens
#13	292	Richard Stockton	16-2	def. Rowan, 83-62; 01/24 at New Jersey City
#14	277	Mass-Dartmouth	13-2	LOST (at home) to Rhode Island College, 66-69; 01/24 at Western Connecticut
#15	264	Augustana	13-4	def. Millikin, 51-43; 01/24 vs. Illinois Wesleyan
#16	260	Elms	14-1	def. Lesley, 72-37; 01/24 at Wheelock
#17	240	St. Norbert	12-1	01/23 vs. Illinois College; 01/24 vs. Knox
#18	178	Carnegie Mellon	12-2	def. Lycoming, 71-56; 01/23 vs. Chicago; 01/25 vs. #3 Washington U.
#19	162	Elmhurst	12-4	def. North Central (Ill.), 72-66; 01/24 at #1 Wheaton (Ill.)
#20	147	Texas-Dallas	14-2	LOST (at home) to University of the Ozarks, 66-68; 01/22 at Texas-Tyler
#21	135	Roanoke	15-2	def. Randolph, 76-66; 01/24 vs. Virginia Wesleyan
#22	92	Gettysburg	12-2	def. #24 Franklin and Marshall, 73-66; 01/24 at Haverford
#23	78	William Paterson	14-2	def. Baruch, 70-65; def. Rutgers-Newark, 71-54; 01/24 at New Jersey
#24	65	Franklin and Marshall	13-2	LOST (at home) to #22 Gettysburg, 66-73; 01/24 vs. McDaniel
#25	51	Middlebury	14-2	01/23 at Connecticut College; 01/24 at Wesleyan

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	50	Whitworth	13-3	def. Whitman, 101-70; 01/23 at Lewis and Clark
#27	37	Anderson	13-4	def. Manchester, 100-62; 01/24 vs. Franklin
#28	35	St. John Fisher	12-2	01/23 at Alfred; 01/24 vs. Nazareth
#29	25	Salem State	13-2	def. Framingham State, 97-75; 01/22 vs. Fitchburg State; 01/24 vs. Bridgewater State
#30	21	Randolph-Macon	12-4	LOST at Virginia Wesleyan, 76-82; 01/24 vs. Randolph
#31	20	Centre	12-3	01/23 at Hendrix; 01/25 at Millsaps
#32	10	Carroll	11-3	01/23 vs. Knox; 01/24 vs. Grinnell
T#33	7	DePauw	12-4	01/23 at Millsaps; 01/25 at Hendrix
T#33	7	Worcester Polytech	13-3	def. Babson, 69-65; 01/24 at Wheaton (Mass.)
#35	5	St. Mary's (Md.)	13-3	def. Gallaudet, 84-59; 01/24 at Wesley
#36	4	Carthage	12-4	def. #1 Wheaton (Ill.), 55-54; 01/24 at North Central (Ill.)
T#37	2	Claremont-Mudd-Scripps	10-5	LOST at Pomona-Pitzer, 51-66; 01/24 at La Verne
T#37	2	Rochester	11-3	01/23 vs. #3 Washington U.; 01/25 vs. Chicago
#39	1	Chapman	13-2	01/23 at La Sierra; 01/24 vs. University of Dallas (neutral site); 01/25 at UC Santa Cruz

Other teams to watch (as suggested by posters on this board)

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
---	---	Cal Lutheran	11-4	def. Caltech, 77-52; 01/24 vs. Redlands
---	---	Hiram	11-5	def. Allegheny, 65-61; 01/24 at Oberlin
---	---	Milwaukee Engineering	12-3	def. Wisconsin Lutheran, 88-76; 01/22 vs. Dominican; 01/24 vs. Lakeland