Top 25 talk

[Darryl Nester]

Sager, do you have a computer program the picks out when a poster mixes up preseason and noncoference?

No, but if some ambitious software writer would like to construct one ... 

Sorry, Greg, but I do better with computer programs that manipulate numbers, not words. As an old Speed Bump comic strip put it:

There are two kinds of people in the world:  Those who are good with numbers, those who are good with words, and those who ain't good with neither.

(I'm quoting from memory, but that's pretty close.)

[Marty Peretz]

I think Wash.U. should regain the top spot in the poll. Two convincing road wins over top 40 opponents, I believe, is worthy of them jumping the two spots. It will be interesting to see how the voters respond. I can't say I know anything about St. Thomas, so I don't want to cast judgement on their abilities. I'm sure they're quite good, but they haven't played nearly as quality a schedule as Wash.U and that's why I'd give the nod to the Bears.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Personally, I jumped them over St. Thomas on my Posters' Poll ballot, but I predict that St. Thomas will narrowly take #1 on the d3 poll, with UWP and UWSP (in whichever order) as #3 and #4.  (How far to drop Wheaton was my toughest call - I ended up slotting them 8th.)

[Pat Coleman]

A no-report on a score is a sure way to lose your Top 25 votes. Nobody is going to vote for a borderline team that you can't get a result on.

[Greek Tragedy]

Just to help you out a little...I don't think you need to type the extra (at home) in your results..

Simply saying LOST TO...tells us that they lost at home.  When you say, "LOST AT" that tells us it was on the road.  We're smart guys, we can figure it out! lol...just trying to make it a little easier for you.  Appreciate the efforts for sure.

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	618	Wheaton (Ill.)	15-2	LOST (at home) to #36 Carthage, 54-55;

[Ralph Turner]

Just to help you out a little...I don't think you need to type the extra (at home) in your results..

Simply saying LOST TO...tells us that they lost at home.  When you say, "LOST AT" that tells us it was on the road.  We're smart guys, we can figure it out! lol...just trying to make it a little easier for you.  Appreciate the efforts for sure.

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	618	Wheaton (Ill.)	15-2	LOST (at home) to #36 Carthage, 54-55;

For the sake of convention on these boards, I am comfortable with a poster using lost, or lost at, or lost at (n) to signify where the game was played.  Thanks for all that you do. +1! 

[magicman]

Chapman beats UC Santa Cruz on Sunday 81-71.

[Darryl Nester]

Just to help you out a little...I don't think you need to type the extra (at home) in your results. ...

For the sake of convention on these boards, I am comfortable with a poster using lost, or lost at, or lost at (n) to signify where the game was played.  Thanks for all that you do. +1! 

Thanks for the feedback, Tom and Ralph.  I changed my program to follow this convention.

For any programming geeks, the relevant part of the program now reads:

Code Select Expand


fprintf(reportfile, "[b]LOST[/b] ");
switch (g.location) {
    case 'H': fprintf(reportfile, "to "); break;
    case 'A': fprintf(reportfile, "at "); break;
    case 'N': fprintf(reportfile, "to (n) ");
}
(Sorry, I really just wanted an excuse the try out the "code" tag.)

[sac]

Add Transylvania to the "ones to watch list"  13-4.... 1st tie HCAC.

[OxyBob]

Last night on "Hoopsville," also known as "The CCIW Hour(s)," Titan Q was in shameless homer mode while applying the CCIW Theory of Perpetual Greatness, by which "greatness begets greater greatness," in explaining Wheaton's losses to Carthage and Elmhurst:

Without Kent Raymond, Wheaton really is not a dominant team. I'm not sure they're a Top 25 team even without Kent Raymond. I thought they would beat Carthage at home but they ended up losing of course to Carthage and then they just got drilled by Elmhurst last night, so I would say not a huge surprise. I just don't think they're a Top 25 team without Kent Raymond.
...

I think their resume still dictates that they're a highly ranked team, and he'll be back. It's not like he's going to be gone. I think he might miss another game or two, but they're not a one-man team by any stretch. They're a great team but that one man makes them a great team ... without him I don't think they're a Top 25 team without him.

So without Kent Raymond, Wheaton is not a Top 25 team but they're still a great team though not a one-man team even though it's the one man who makes them great. Pure, unadulterated, unabashed shameless homerism at its shameless best.

The show's host's reply to Titan Q: "I'm with you there!"

OxyBob

[Ethelred the Unready]

Add Transylvania to the "ones to watch list"  13-4.... 1st tie HCAC.

I don't know....I hear they suck.  Get it?   Probably the FIRST time anyone has ever referenced vampires and the Tranny's.   OK, maybe I shouldn't refer to them as Tranny's.....damn I'm tired.....

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Last night on "Hoopsville," also known as "The CCIW Hour(s)," Titan Q was in shameless homer mode while applying the CCIW Theory of Perpetual Greatness, by which "greatness begets greater greatness," in explaining Wheaton's losses to Carthage and Elmhurst:

Without Kent Raymond, Wheaton really is not a dominant team. I'm not sure they're a Top 25 team even without Kent Raymond. I thought they would beat Carthage at home but they ended up losing of course to Carthage and then they just got drilled by Elmhurst last night, so I would say not a huge surprise. I just don't think they're a Top 25 team without Kent Raymond.
...

I think their resume still dictates that they're a highly ranked team, and he'll be back. It's not like he's going to be gone. I think he might miss another game or two, but they're not a one-man team by any stretch. They're a great team but that one man makes them a great team ... without him I don't think they're a Top 25 team without him.

So without Kent Raymond, Wheaton is not a Top 25 team but they're still a great team though not a one-man team even though it's the one man who makes them great. Pure, unadulterated, unabashed shameless homerism at its shameless best.

The show's host's reply to Titan Q: "I'm with you there!"

OxyBob

So you missed me say "are you going to remove them from your Top 25 if they were Number 1?" Bob's reply corrected his point, that he wasn't going to completely punish them when their resume of the season, along with the fact that Raymond is NOT out for the season (could be back as early as Wednesday and probably Saturday for sure) makes them a team that is in the Top 25.

If Raymond was not on the team at all this season or was out for the season due to injury, they probably aren't a Top 25 team. Since Raymond has been on the team except for two games and is coming back, that entire resume is considered and many voters (including myself) aren't going to drop the former #1 team completely out of their polls. Should they go 0-2 this week and Raymond is back in the line-up for one or both of those games, this discussion takes on a much more serious tone.

The show's host (WHO IS ME, PAL!), stated "I'm with you there (without the exclemation point, since it was a comment not filled with excitement)" because I understood the point and agreed. Since I am in Baltimore, not sure that bias you keep throwing around plays out here.

OB, I am so tired of your constant BS when it comes to other people's opinions and the fact that you are convinced there are 25 voters out there all of like-mind. By the way, Bob talked a lot about the WIAC and even the HCAC last night, not just the CCIW. And if you heard the show, did you hear the comments by others about Wash U, St. Thomas, UW-Platteville, and even Wheaton? Just curious. At least you listened to part of the show... so I thank you for that!

[April]

That is admittedly a terrible quote. I think it's interesting that Bob is still apparently the Midwest reporter despite not getting to see most of these teams in person this season... it kinda shows in that vague backpedaled answer he doesn't know enough about what he's talking about to speak as an authority on any of this stuff. Greg, are you available to be the Midwest Reporter...  since, you know, I have so much right to decide who the reporters are when I don't even listen to the show anymore?

My personal guess is that Wheaton is probably a 15-25 team without Raymond... IF Wiele had never been injured. There are two seperate factors affecting Wheaton's performance right now... one is the fact that Wiele is still not 100%, the other is the loss of Raymond.

Let's not forget that we only had to shoot very slightly better from the line last Wednesday vs. Carthage and we would have won. We were a ridiculous 11-24 and lost by 1 point. We could have shot 54% from the line and won. Yes, we should have won; no, I am not really making excuses.... I am pissed as heck about a stupid loss like that (as annoyed as I am at CLU for that silly loss earlier this season, OxyBob). I don't think that this loss disproves we are Top 25 quality, however, just like I don't think that the CLU crazy loss to Buena Vista necessarily disproved their worthiness to be in the ORV category (though other things later have... they're just too young... this year!) However, Wiele is definitely an All-American caliber player, and it's fairly normal in DIII for a team to be a 15-25 team when they have just one higher team AA and a good supporting cast.

Elmhurst has the talent to be a much higher ranked team than they are. However they have been extremely talented AND extremely streaky this season... as they have been for as long as I have been following DIII basketball, come to think of it. Against us (after the 10 minutes delay that flattened a strong Wheaton open to the game) they happened to be on fire, which is logical since they were playing the #1 team.

With all that out of the way... I would be surprised if Wash U was not #1 this week, hopping over St. Thomas. They have been the #1 team since day one to me, and that view only very briefly changed during the short stint when Elmhurst looked like a more solid and stable team than they clearly are, and their defeat of Wash U seemed like more than a fluke. As a Wheaton fan, I think this is as much "our year" as it has ever been... however, I am not foolish to think we had earned the #1 based on our schedule and results.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

That is admittedly a terrible quote. I think it's interesting that Bob is still apparently the Midwest reporter despite not getting to see most of these teams in person this season... it kinda shows in that vague backpedaled answer he doesn't know enough about what he's talking about to speak as an authority on any of this stuff. Greg, are you available to be the Midwest Reporter...  since, you know, I have so much right to decide who the reporters are when I don't even listen to the show anymore?

Bob is doing just fine and I appreciate his contributions to the show. For the record, not many people get out and see tons of games each season... traveling is tough not only on teams but also on us "reporters." Thanks to the internet for radio and video (I watched two games at the same time on Sunday) and banter in the chat-rooms, someone who knows the area can still give a good breakdown on what is going on.

At the same time, no one said any of the reports or myself are experts. Bob's opinion is just that... his opinion. Just as Mark's opinion about the Northeast is just that as well. However, I value those opinions and they give the show and those listening some insight on what is going on. We also bring along other guests to add to the conversation. Last night we chatted with Anderson Head Coach Tom Slyder who gave his two-cents on the topic of who is the better team (Wash U., Elmhurst, UW-Platteville), along with JC DeLass' opinion on the Bears and Pat Coleman who called the Wheaton-Elmhurst game. I also talk to my fair share of individuals off the air to get thoughts and opinions. So it isn't just one person's side we are taking.

Also, I forgot to mention in the "CCIW Hour" side of OB's comments... did you notice we have split the show up... so tuning in on Sunday is going to be a lot about the Midwest - though Bob's conversation lasted maybe 15 minutes due to technical problems.

[Titan Q]

Last night on "Hoopsville," also known as "The CCIW Hour(s)," Titan Q was in shameless homer mode while applying the CCIW Theory of Perpetual Greatness, by which "greatness begets greater greatness," in explaining Wheaton's losses to Carthage and Elmhurst:

Without Kent Raymond, Wheaton really is not a dominant team. I'm not sure they're a Top 25 team even without Kent Raymond. I thought they would beat Carthage at home but they ended up losing of course to Carthage and then they just got drilled by Elmhurst last night, so I would say not a huge surprise. I just don't think they're a Top 25 team without Kent Raymond.
...

I think their resume still dictates that they're a highly ranked team, and he'll be back. It's not like he's going to be gone. I think he might miss another game or two, but they're not a one-man team by any stretch. They're a great team but that one man makes them a great team ... without him I don't think they're a Top 25 team without him.

So without Kent Raymond, Wheaton is not a Top 25 team but they're still a great team though not a one-man team even though it's the one man who makes them great. Pure, unadulterated, unabashed shameless homerism at its shameless best.

The show's host's reply to Titan Q: "I'm with you there!"

OxyBob

Come on, Bob.  My points were simply that,

1) Without Kent Raymond, possibly the best player in Division III, Wheaton may not be a Top 25-caliber team.  I have watched every Wheaton CCIW home game this season via video stream and while I think Wheaton is a legitimate #1 candidate with Raymond, I think they may fall somewhere below #25 without him.  Their losses to Carthage and Elmhurst were not huge surprises.

2) When I said Wheaton's "resume still dictates them being a highly ranked team", I was simply referring to the fact that they are 15-2 with some very impressive wins.  They deserve to be ranked high based on results.  Wheaton should not penalized before they actually lose games (they will fall today based on the 2 losses, and then we will see what happens moving forward).  And as I said, Raymond is pretty close to returning.

3) Wheaton is not a one-man team, but that one man (Kent Raymond) is who creates the opportunities for Ben Panner, Andy Wiele, Jake Carlwell, Tim McCrary, etc...without Raymond, those players have a much harder time carrying the load.  The championship Chicago Bulls were by no stretch a one-man team, but take #23 away, and Pippin, Grant, & Co. struggle to fill their roles the same.


I don't get paid a dime for working on Hoopsville as the Midwest reporter.  With my job, I am typically on the road every Sunday and have to rearrange a lot things and make sacrifices to make it work.  I do it to support a) D3hoops.com and b) Dave McHugh, who puts in countless hours providing a show dedicated to Division III basketball.  I take my role seriously - I've driven to St. Louis 5 times this year to watch Wash U, twice to see Fontbonne (once to watch Elmhurst as well), traveled to Fulton, Mo. last weekend to watch Westminster play Maryville in a big SLIAC game.  As I said above, I have watched every single one of Wheaton's league home games via video stream.  I do my best to evaluate the Midwest region (and the WIAC as best I can).

If you want to pick apart every quote of mine and twist it around using your "CCIW homer" line over and over again, that's fine.  I do my best.