Top 25 talk

[John Gleich]

#5 Point beats River Falls 73-61.
#7 WW leads Stout 34-29.  Live Video Here

Check out the WIAC in game updates for updates on this game.

[John Gleich]

#5 Point beats River Falls 73-61.
#7 WW leads Stout 34-29.  Live Video Here

Check out the WIAC in game updates for updates on this game.

Warhawks getting all they can handle from Stout.  54-49 UWW leads with 8 mins.

[John Gleich]

#5 Point beats River Falls 73-61.
#7 WW leads Stout 34-29.  Live Video Here

Check out the WIAC in game updates for updates on this game.

Warhawks getting all they can handle from Stout.  54-49 UWW leads with 8 mins.

Whitewater survives 62-57 thanks to some timely rebounding.

[nescac1]

Posted this (in shorter form) in NESCAC board:

With Elms, Amherst, Bridgewater State (who never had any business in the top 25 to begin with, and certainly doesn't now) and WPI all losing, hopefully Williams can crack the top 25 this week.  The Ephs are now 6-0 with an average margin of victory of 22.  They have played a weak schedule to date (it does get much tougher starting in late December), but have two decent wins against  Wesleyan and Cortland and have blown everyone else out.  They really should be ranked above Brandeis, who hasn't looked all that great.  Brandeis has one loss and exactly zero impressive wins.  It lost the top two scorers from an 18-9 team, and clearly looks worse this year. Brandeis beat Salem by 15 (and were down at halftime), and the Ephs beat them by 30.  Brandeis beat Vassar by 27, the Ephs beat them by 37.  Brandeis barely eeked out wins over Clark and Framingham.  They only really play seven guys, none of whom are exactly all-Americans.  Brandeis is a solid team but do they really deserve to be ranked over undefeated Williams, undefeated MIT, and undefeated Colby?  I'd say all three clearly belong above Brandeis and Bridgewater State, and arguably above Amherst and Elms as well.  I'd say based on early season results along with the rosters on paper, Brandeis should be behind UMD, Midd, Williams, MIT, Colby, Elms, Amherst in New England.   

[Pat Coleman]

Brandeis vs. Salem State, on a neutral floor.
Williams vs. Salem State, at Williams.

Just some other facts to keep in mind.

I don't think anyone is impressed by the difference between a 37-point win and a 27-point win, by the way. They're both blowouts.

Williams has its own claim to Top 25 status. It doesn't have to come by tearing down Brandeis.

[nescac1]

I just don't think Brandeis belongs in the top 25 regardless of Williams' claim (and it's not just Williams, it's unbeaten MIT and Colby as well, considering there are -- realistically -- only so many spots for New England teams).  Brandeis just hasn't looked all that great, putting up unimpressive stats to date against less-than-stellar competition overall.   And when you only have seven guys averaging more than one point per game, that is going to be seriously problematic later in the year once guys start to wear down, get nicked up, get into foul trouble, etc.  I just think Brandeis' reputation is based on how it played two and three years ago, rather than its current roster, which hasn't really been replenished despite the graduation of two really talented classes and the transfer of a few guys who would have been in this year's rotation. 

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared -- through December 6.

Results in italics were not posted; I looked them up and entered them myself.  In those cases, I tried to fix that team's record, but I might have missed something.

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	625	Washington U.	5-0	def. McKendree, 82-67; def. Pomona-Pitzer, 76-50
#2	579	John Carroll	6-0	def. Baldwin-Wallace, 96-73; def. Muskingum, 76-66
#3	570	St. Thomas	5-0	def. Concordia-Moorhead, 73-55; def. St. Olaf, 70-61
#4	557	Guilford	4-1	def. North Carolina Wesleyan, 83-66; LOST at T#46 Virginia Wesleyan, 68-71
#5	519	UW-Stevens Point	7-0	def. UW-Stout, 80-59; def. UW-River Falls, 73-61
#6	480	Wheaton (Ill.)	5-1	def. T#46 Chicago, 72-54; LOST at #27 Hope, 54-76; def. Calvin, 74-69
#7	450	UW-Whitewater	7-0	def. T#38 UW-La Crosse, 71-59; def. UW-Stout, 62-57
#8	432	Richard Stockton	5-2	LOST to New Jersey City, 71-76
#9	405	Randolph-Macon	6-0	def. Randolph, 76-64; def. Emory and Henry, 85-60
#10	389	Franklin and Marshall	5-2	def. #12 St. Mary's (Md.), 72-61; def. T#42 Ursinus, 78-74; LOST at McDaniel, 51-60
#11	319	Mass-Dartmouth	5-1	def. #19 Bridgewater State, 81-62; def. Plymouth State, 67-63
#12	310	St. Mary's (Md.)	5-1	LOST at #10 Franklin and Marshall, 61-72; def. Marymount, 63-51; def. Stevenson, 103-71
#13	259	Amherst	4-1	def. Westfield State, 86-68; LOST at #20 Elms, 79-88; def. Springfield, 80-61
#14	225	Texas-Dallas	6-1	def. Concordia-Austin, 81-62; def. Sul Ross State, 75-52; def. Howard Payne, 99-83
#15	200	Middlebury	7-0	def. Castleton State, 88-58; def. St. Lawrence, 79-57; def. Union, 76-56
#16	189	Illinois Wesleyan	5-2	def. Monmouth, 65-55; LOST at T#46 Chicago, 60-68
#17	155	Carthage	6-2	def. Ind.-Northwest, 104-67; LOST to (n) Calvin, 69-72; def. #27 Hope, 83-77 OT
#18	129	Chapman	7-0	def. UC Santa Cruz, 74-44; def. #33 Cal Lutheran, 52-45; def. George Fox, 73-45
#19	118	Bridgewater State	3-3	LOST at #11 Mass-Dartmouth, 62-81; LOST to Wheaton (Mass.), 66-68
#20	113	Elms	5-1	def. Western New England, 84-65; def. #13 Amherst, 88-79; LOST to Westfield State, 69-73
#21	106	Augustana	5-0	def. Knox, 73-56
#22	102	Wittenberg	4-1	LOST at Hiram, 74-92
#23	97	Brandeis	7-1	def. Clark, 51-47; def. Framingham State, 76-73; def. Salem State, 88-73; def. Tufts, 54-41
#24	94	DeSales	5-2	def. Manhattanville, 66-42; def. Delaware Valley, 75-73
#25	92	Wooster	4-3	def. Ohio Wesleyan, 80-72; def. Kenyon, 66-65

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	80	St. Norbert	6-0	def. Lake Forest, 69-58; def. Monmouth, 70-58
#27	74	Hope	4-2	def. Trinity Christian, 97-80; def. #6 Wheaton (Ill.), 76-54; LOST to #17 Carthage, 77-83 OT
#28	72	Whitworth	2-2	LOST to (n) Pomona-Pitzer, 54-55; def. McKendree @ St. Louis,, 72-69
#29	67	Williams	6-0	def. Salem State, 100-71; def. Vassar, 111-74
#30	60	Mississippi College	5-0	def. McMurry, 73-62; def. Schreiner, 85-69
#31	53	UW-Platteville	6-2	def. Viterbo, 62-60; def. UW-Superior, 75-63
#32	37	Worcester Polytech	6-1	def. Curry, 76-62; def. Lasell, 81-67; LOST at Thomas, 82-92
#33	34	Cal Lutheran	1-3	def. Willamette, 83-69; LOST to (n) #18 Chapman, 45-52; LOST at Redlands, 68-95
#34	21	MIT	8-0	def. Emerson, 66-51; def. Newbury, 76-50; def. Gordon, 78-73 OT
#35	20	St. John Fisher	3-1	LOST to Hobart, 83-90; def. Rochester Tech, 60-46
#36	16	Defiance	5-1	LOST at Anderson, 70-88; def. Rose-Hulman, 82-61
#37	15	DePauw	5-1	def. Rhodes, 86-64; LOST at Birmingham-Southern, 68-84
T#38	11	Puget Sound	2-4	IDLE
T#38	11	UW-La Crosse	6-2	LOST to #7 UW-Whitewater, 59-71; def. UW-Eau Claire, 69-64
T#38	11	Widener	5-2	def. Arcadia, 80-67; LOST to Lycoming, 85-91
#41	5	Cabrini	6-0	def. Philadelphia Bible, 84-53; def. Marywood, 65-52; def. Baptist Bible, 76-54
T#42	4	Centre	2-4	LOST at Berea, 59-71; LOST at Birmingham-Southern, 44-53; def. Rhodes, 69-62
T#42	4	Ursinus	3-3	LOST at #10 Franklin and Marshall, 74-78; LOST at Swarthmore, 74-68
T#44	3	Eastern Mennonite	8-0	def. Lynchburg, 89-82; def. Penn St.-Brandywine, 97-44
T#44	3	Whittier	4-0	def. Holy Names, 103-101 OT
T#46	2	Baruch	4-1	def. Medgar Evers, 91-82
T#46	2	Carroll	5-1	def. Illinois College, 80-67; def. Lake Forest, 80-67
T#46	2	Chicago	5-1	LOST at #6 Wheaton (Ill.), 54-72; def. #16 Illinois Wesleyan, 68-60
T#46	2	Transylvania	4-3	def. Hanover, 85-71; def. Bluffton, 54-49
T#46	2	Virginia Wesleyan	7-1	def. Methodist, 83-66; def. Apprentice School, 76-73 OT; def. #4 Guilford, 71-68
#51	1	Rochester	6-1	LOST at Rochester Tech, 58-63; def. Emory, 83-62

[Hugenerd]

MIT and Eastern Mennonite with the most Ws in the country right now!

[augie77]

http://www.augustana.edu/x17589.xml  

Augustana wil be playing at Gonzaga Wednesday night (6:00 Pacific time).  Check out this link for information on the game and Augustana team activities in preparation.

After Gonzaga, Augustana will have a breather.  Saturday night they will step down in competition and will play at # 1 Washington University in St Louis.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

http://www.augustana.edu/x17589.xml  

Augustana wil be playing at Gonzaga Wednesday night (6:00 Pacific time).  Check out this link for information on the game and Augustana team activities in preparation.

After Gonzaga, Augustana will have a breather.  Saturday night they will step down in competition and will play at # 1 Washington University in St Louis.

Can we all agree... most difficult four day stretch for any d3 team this season?

[Flying Dutch Fan]

http://www.augustana.edu/x17589.xml  

Augustana wil be playing at Gonzaga Wednesday night (6:00 Pacific time).  Check out this link for information on the game and Augustana team activities in preparation.

After Gonzaga, Augustana will have a breather.  Saturday night they will step down in competition and will play at # 1 Washington University in St Louis.

Can we all agree... most difficult four day stretch for any d3 team this season?

Not sure you needed the last 2 words of that sentence

[Hugenerd]

New polls are out:

http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Let's see, Hope starts the week at ORV (27).  So what did we accomplish in that week?

- beat a non-D3 opponent on the road that we should beat
- knocked off the #6 team in the nation by 25
- and then lost to #17 in OT (who was coming off a loss to an NR D3 team). 

What could possibly happen.....    Who wouldn't consider that to be a pretty good week...   

The number 6 team, well they drop ALL THE WAY to 8 - Are the voters really serious?  Wheaton was clearly the 3rd best team in Holland last week.

The number 17 team, well they drop to all the way to 24

And us, well we get 2 more points, which drops us to ORV (28)

I've long thought the d3hoops poll to be a fine representation of the best teams in d3, but this is an absolute joke

[Gregory Sager]

What you didn't mention, FDF, was that Hope was home for games #2 and #3 last week, which colors how the outcomes of those games are perceived by the voters. You also didn't mention that Wheaton had an 18-point win earlier in the week over ORV Chicago.

For the record, I have believed all along that Wheaton is most likely not a top ten team -- I still haven't seen the Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance play yet, so I'm holding off on saying anything definitive about them -- and I think that they're still overrated at #8.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

GS - your right, I didn't mention those things.  I did however see the S.A.D. play 2 games, and if they are a top 20 team, then D3 hoops (basketball at the D3 level, not this website) have taken a couple of huge steps backwards.