Top 25 talk

[Titan Q]

What's up with Wooster? I haven't been following them but was told this was their year to make a real run. I was really looking forward to the Wooster-Wash.U game but with 3 L's in the early going,  a WUSTL victory would seem to virtually be a foregone conclusion. Anyone have a scoop?

This post says something about just how much the good times are rolling with the Wash U men's basketball program!  It would seem to take back-to-back national titles, and an undefeated start, for a fan to actually come on here and post that a win @ Wooster "would seem to virtually be a foregone conclusion."

Yikes.

[David Collinge]

David,
It wasn't a knock on Wooster or meant as trash talk. I'm genuinely curious how they have lost 3 times because I was expecting them to be excellent. On paper, it would seem a 3 loss team would loset to the undefeated, number 1, and 2 time defending national champs. That's not trash talk; it's just a logical conclusion based on available information. I was asking the question though because I figured their L's might be anomalous and was hoping for some context. Not to mention, I don't think a great program like Wooster needs a message board to get them fired up to play the top team in the land. If they do, they're probably looking at loss number 4...

Your hubris renders me speechless, something that's admittedly hard to do.

[Titan Q]

Video links:

#1 Wash U vs #15 Augustana (7:00pm Central)

http://bearsports.wustl.edu/mensbball/mensbball.html


#8 Wheaton vs Grinnell (7:30pm Central)

http://www.wheaton.edu/wetn/


I assume the Thunder will handle 1-6 Grinnell fairly easily, but Wheaton is a very thin team...depth is a real problem.  Could be interesting to watch for a while, who knows.

[ScotsFan]

David,
It wasn't a knock on Wooster or meant as trash talk. I'm genuinely curious how they have lost 3 times because I was expecting them to be excellent. On paper, it would seem a 3 loss team would loset to the undefeated, number 1, and 2 time defending national champs. That's not trash talk; it's just a logical conclusion based on available information. I was asking the question though because I figured their L's might be anomalous and was hoping for some context. Not to mention, I don't think a great program like Wooster needs a message board to get them fired up to play the top team in the land. If they do, they're probably looking at loss number 4...

Your hubris renders me speechless, something that's admittedly hard to do.

Well David, I took your bait you left for us on the NCAC board and I pretty much echo your thoughts above.

Not trying to make excuses, but in case you missed it Marty, two of Wooster's three losses were to the #2 and the #3 team in the country...

BTW, Wooster could also meet up with R-MC in the finals a tournament they are hosting this weekend making it the 3rd top six team Wooster has faced in this young season!  And if Wooster and WashU happen to meet up in the finals of Woo's Mose Hole Tournament, that will be the 4th top six team Wooster will have faced before the new year! 

Wooster's record may not be all that great now, but part of the reason Coach Moore has assembled such a difficult schedule is to help this team at the end of the season.  Wooster may be struggling to win theses games now, but they are also learning a lot about themselves at the same time and that should go a long way to help this team grow and be prepared as they move forward into conference play and hopefully NCAA postseason play...

[Gregory Sager]

What's up with Wooster? I haven't been following them but was told this was their year to make a real run. I was really looking forward to the Wooster-Wash.U game but with 3 L's in the early going,  a WUSTL victory would seem to virtually be a foregone conclusion. Anyone have a scoop?

This post says something about just how much the good times are rolling with the Wash U men's basketball program!  It would seem to take back-to-back national titles, and an undefeated start, for a fan to actually come on here and post that a win @ Wooster "would seem to virtually be a foregone conclusion."

Well, that plus Marty's refusal to click through to the Wooster page on this site to find out who beat the Scots (information later provided by ScotsFan).

[David Collinge]

What's up with Wooster? I haven't been following them but was told this was their year to make a real run. I was really looking forward to the Wooster-Wash.U game but with 3 L's in the early going,  a WUSTL victory would seem to virtually be a foregone conclusion. Anyone have a scoop?

This post says something about just how much the good times are rolling with the Wash U men's basketball program!  It would seem to take back-to-back national titles, and an undefeated start, for a fan to actually come on here and post that a win @ Wooster "would seem to virtually be a foregone conclusion."

Well, that plus Marty's refusal to click through to the Wooster page on this site to find out who beat the Scots (information later provided by ScotsFan).

...or to browse the NCAC thread, where the subject of Wooster hoops comes up once in a while.

[Marty Peretz]

Sorry gang for taking a cursory glance at Wooster's record, asking a few questions, and making a few inferences based on an admittedly very quick glance. I guess I should be tarred and feathered for having the audacity to inquire about Wooster's 3 losses. Thank you for informing me that two of the L's were to top clubs. That helps and explains pretty much everything. That said, there is no need to flip out on me for not spending my time looking at the details; if you have an informational advantage and can answer a question, do so and move on. No need to rip me for asking a question. I didn't have the information and that was, of course, why I asked the question in the first place. Admittedly "foregone conclusion" might have been harsh in tone, but it was not meant as a knock on Wooster. I initially foresaw the Scots game as a likely 'L' for Wash.U and simply wanted to gain information.

TitanQ, thank you for having a sense of humor and keeping me honest in a light hearted way rather than assailing me for my alleged arrogance. You are right that I've been quite spoiled these last few years and while laudatory of my team, I generally try to look at things with some semblance of objectivity. Reality is, objectivity lends itself to an awfully favorable analysis of a team that's won 2 straight titles, been to Salem 3 years in a row, and returns 2 first team all Americans and four starters. If I'd noted those things with any other team, it likely wouldn't have elicited such a hostile reaction from the forum regulars.

[David Collinge]

No need to rip me for asking a question.

When the question is "why does your sucky team have no chance against my invincible champions?" you should probably expect some degree of intransigence. 

Anyway, there's a lot of water to be crossed between then and now, including some very tough games for both of these teams.  Let's holster our weapons until the game gets a little closer, okay?

[Hugenerd]

I am hoping MIT breaks into the polls for the first time ever this week.  They are off to their best start in school history at 11-0 and they were ranked 27th last week, just 4 points out of the top 25.  At least two teams ranked 21-26 have lost this week giving them both at least 2 losses(DeSales and Elms), so I am thinking it could be a real possibility.  Anyone more familiar with the poll have any thoughts?

[sac]

I am hoping MIT breaks into the polls for the first time ever this week.  They are off to their best start in school history at 11-0 and they were ranked 27th last week, just 4 points out of the top 25.  At least two teams ranked 21-26 have lost this week giving them both at least 2 losses(DeSales and Elms), so I am thinking it could be a real possibility.  Anyone more familiar with the poll have any thoughts?

Maybe, doesn't look like more than 1 team will drop out of the top 25 unless Augustana loses to WashU and gets severely punished for losses to Gonzaga and D3's #1 team.

[sac]

#2 John Carroll takes its second loss of the week at Wilmington  107-105 in triple OT.

Wilmington is now 8-1, its only loss to D1 Cleveland State.  http://d3hoops.com/school/WILM/mens/2010

[WUPHF]

You Wooster fans are way too sensitive.

I hope you don't mind if I attach this post to the bulletin board in Wooster's locker room, Marty.  Thanks for the help. 

Yeah, go post this in the locker room.  I have no doubt that the players will be extremely motivated by what an anonymous fan posts (sarcasm).  Talk about hubris.

[nescac1]

I think MIT is in for sure.  DeSales is definitely going to drop out.  Stockton probably should as well, with three losses already to three mediocre teams ... yes they had a great run last year, but based on this year's results to date, they don't belong anywhere near the Top 25.  UMDartmouth is also performing well below how good they looked on paper -- even their wins have been generally unimpressive.  Based on THIS year's results, and with 1/3 of the season down, there are enough to no longer need to rely on last year, the top New England teams look something like Williams, Midd, MIT, and Amherst in that order (and probably those four, and only those four, deserve top 25 votes in New England), with a big logjam after the top four between Bowdoin, Colby, Elms, UMD, Western CT, and Brandeis, in some sort of order ...

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared -- Final report for December 13

As usual, games in italics were not posted to d3sports.  Please let me know if you spot any problems.

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	625	Washington U.	7-0	def. #8 Wheaton (Ill.), 64-62; def. #15 Augustana, 71-53
#2	586	John Carroll	6-2	LOST at Mount Union, 62-67; LOST at T#35 Wilmington, 105-107 3OT
#3	582	St. Thomas	6-0	def. Augsburg, 77-61
#4	550	UW-Stevens Point	8-1	LOST at #5 UW-Whitewater, 60-67 OT; def. Elmhurst, 81-73
#5	514	UW-Whitewater	9-0	def. #4 UW-Stevens Point, 67-60 OT; def. UW-Superior, 92-73
#6	490	Randolph-Macon	7-0	def. Alvernia, 92-64
#7	448	Guilford	5-1	def. Hampden-Sydney, 77-72
#8	374	Wheaton (Ill.)	6-2	LOST at #1 Washington U., 62-64; def. Grinnell, 127-100
#9	359	Middlebury	7-0	IDLE
#10	349	Mass-Dartmouth	6-2	def. Worcester State, 90-78; LOST at Western Connecticut, 86-90
#11	324	Texas-Dallas	6-1	IDLE
#12	319	Chapman	8-1	LOST to Claremont-Mudd-Scripps, 56-57; def. La Verne, 64-63
#13	254	Richard Stockton	6-3	def. T#43 Albright, 72-62; LOST to (n) Susquehanna, 66-69
#14	251	St. Mary's (Md.)	6-2	def. Salisbury, 72-60; LOST at York (Pa.), 61-64
#15	228	Augustana	5-2	LOST at Gonzaga, 40-79; LOST at #1 Washington U., 53-71
#16	218	Franklin and Marshall	6-2	def. Gettysburg, 61-52
#17	185	Amherst	6-1	def. Emmanuel, 98-76; def. Lasell, 94-70
#18	181	Brandeis	7-1	IDLE
#19	154	St. Norbert	6-0	IDLE
#20	120	Williams	8-0	def. Framingham State, 88-50; def. Springfield, 85-61
#21	113	DeSales	6-3	LOST at Catholic, 66-70; def. St. John Fisher, 64-62
#22	107	Mississippi College	7-0	def. Texas Lutheran, 79-66; def. Wesley (Miss.), 89-75
#23	92	Wooster	5-3	def. North Carolina Wesleyan, 87-69
#24	91	Carthage	6-2	IDLE
#25	90	Virginia Wesleyan	8-1	def. Shenandoah, 90-78

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	87	Elms	6-2	def. Wheaton (Mass.), 77-56; LOST at Husson, 82-83
#27	86	MIT	11-0	def. Mass-Boston, 74-54; def. Salem State, 98-93 OT; def. Lesley, 88-61
#28	76	Hope	5-3	def. Purdue-North Cent., 96-73; LOST to Ohio Dominican, 58-65
#29	57	UW-Platteville	7-3	def. UW-Oshkosh, 67-47; LOST at UW-La Crosse, 70-84
#30	45	Eastern Mennonite	8-1	LOST at Southern Va., 79-92
#31	42	Chicago	6-1	def. Kalamazoo, 68-62
#32	37	Illinois Wesleyan	6-2	def. MacMurray, 79-70
#33	18	Cabrini	6-0	IDLE
#34	14	Wittenberg	5-2	def. Kenyon, 76-66; LOST at #37 Anderson, 69-86
T#35	12	Wilmington	8-1	def. #2 John Carroll, 107-105 3OT
T#35	12	Worcester Polytech	9-1	def. University of New England, 88-70; def. Gwynedd-Mercy, 89-84 2OT; def. Regis (Mass.), 64-56
#37	9	Anderson	7-1	def. Bluffton, 68-47; def. #34 Wittenberg, 86-69
#38	7	Whittier	4-1	LOST at Biola, 66-77
#39	5	Rochester	7-1	def. Hobart, 68-63
T#40	3	DePauw	6-2	def. Purdue-North Cent., 92-70; LOST at Wabash, 50-72
T#40	3	Illinois College	6-1	def. Monmouth, 89-88
#42	2	Manchester	5-4	LOST at Defiance, 82-95; LOST at Mount St. Joseph, 64-81
T#43	1	Albright	7-1	def. Penn State-Berks, 85-62; LOST to (n) #13 Richard Stockton, 62-72; def. King's, 71-70
#44	3	Maryville (Tenn.)	7-1	def. Rust, 86-79
T#45	1	New Jersey City	5-3	LOST to Brooklyn, 62-77; LOST at York (N.Y.), 60-68
T#45	1	Scranton	6-3	LOST at Elizabethtown, 52-63

[Greek Tragedy]

Nice work, Darryl!

Wonder how far Stevens Point will drop after losing at #5 Whitewater in OT.  Not sure if Randolph-Macon's and Guilford's wins will vault them above Point.  The Pointers were 60 and 102 points ahead of RMC and Guilford.

Whitewater was 68 points behind St. Thomas.  It's possible, IMO, that they could actually leapfrog St. Thomas.

I guess it could be possible that Point would stay at #4 with RMC and Guilford gaining a lot of points on them.  Or, Point could drop to 6th behind those two.