Top 25 talk

[magicman]

Middlebury as expected handled Hamilton today 62-47. Tied at 27 at the half the teams went back and forth until there was 11 minutes left to play when the Panthers broke loose from a 38 all deadlock to outscore Hamilton 12-2 over the next 4 minutes and take control for good. Panthers now 9-0 on the season and next face Plattsburgh State on Tuesday Jan. 5th.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Since the question has been left hanging on the OAC board (so far this season, the board has little action), I'll pose it here: what's with JCU?!  Just a few days ago (2-9) Denison took Bethany to 2 OTs, yet JCU falls by 22!   Have they had a rash of injuries, or were they just terribly over-rated?

[Hugenerd]

Since the question has been left hanging on the OAC board (so far this season, the board has little action), I'll pose it here: what's with JCU?!  Just a few days ago (2-9) Denison took Bethany to 2 OTs, yet JCU falls by 22!   Have they had a rash of injuries, or were they just terribly over-rated?

I posed some questions along these lines a few hours ago on this board (look at the previous page).

I dont know much about JCU, but they certainly arent playing very well recently.

[Gregory Sager]

Unfortunately, the OAC room is very poorly trafficked, so firsthand information about JCU or any of the other teams in that rather prominent league is sparse.

[magicman]

Since the question has been left hanging on the OAC board (so far this season, the board has little action), I'll pose it here: what's with JCU?!  Just a few days ago (2-9) Denison took Bethany to 2 OTs, yet JCU falls by 22!   Have they had a rash of injuries, or were they just terribly over-rated?

In today's contest against Bethany John Carroll used an 11 man rotation that is basically the same one they have used all year. 10 of these players average double digits in minutes played. They did have 1 player who didn't play today who normally comes off the bench and averages 8.7 ppg and 4.7 rpg. The biggest reason for today's loss was 3 for 23 from 3 point land and getting out rebounded 52-34. No matter who you are you're probably going to get pounded with those stats. 

[Ralph Turner]

Media timeout at Texas Hall on the campus of UT-Arlington,

14:33  UTD 9, UTA 9.
13:19  UTD 10, UTA 9.
12:14  UTD 13,  UTA 11
10:18  UTD 13, UTA 15  (UTD gave up 2 quick turnovers).
8:47    UTD 15, UTA 19 UTD stops an 8-0 run by the Mavericks.)
7:58    UTD 15, UTA 22
4:40    UTD 22, UTA 32
1:56    UTD 26, UTA 32
1:41    UTD 32, UTA 35
Half     UTD 36, UTA 38  (UTD finishes the last 4:40 outscoring UTA 14-6.)



Stats:  UTD:  FG 13-25; 3FG 3-10; FT 7-8; Reb O/D 13 (4/9); TO 9; Points off Turnovers 10, 2nd chance points 7, bench points 0.
           UTA:  FG 13-27; 3FG 5-10; FT 7-10; Rebs O/D 14 (6/8); Turnovers 8;  Points off turnovers 6; 2nd chance points 5; Bench points 15.

Texas Hall has to be one of the most unusual places that basketball is played in the country.  Texas Hall is a standard auditorium that seats about 3500 guests.  One literally sits in the audience to watch the basketball game on the stage.

16:17  UTD 45, UTA 44  
15:45  UTD 45, UTA 47
14:18  UTD 47, UTA 47  tied
13:45  UTD 49, UTA 49  tied
12:25  UTD 49, UTA 54
10:57  UTD 50, UTA 56
7:40    UTD 54, UTA 60
6:00    UTD 54, UTD 65
5:43    UTD 57, UTA 65
3:23    UTD 60, UTA 69
1:19    UTD 60, UTA 70
0:25    UTD 62, UTA 71
0:08    UTD 64, UTA 72
Final    UTD 64, UTA 72

UTA is now 6-5;  UTD 7-3.

UTD:  FG 24-57; 3FG 6-26; FT 10-15; Rebs (O/D)  29 (12/17); TO 16; Points off turnovers 16; Bench points 3.

UTA:  FG 24-54; 3FG 6-16; FT's 18-26; Rebs 39 (15/24); TO 18; Points off turnovers 14; Bench points 29.

Prior to this game, UTD was 80-206 (.388) on 3FG's.

[Hugenerd]

Medaille beats 4-5 Mt. Aloysius by only 1 today at home.  It will be interesting to see how that win over JCU will be seen in the eyes of voters.

[Mr. Ypsi]

In light of JCU's flop (so far, at least), and well remembering 'skosh in 2005-06 (who started 3-3 and were never heard from again in the poll), I got to wondering if preseason #2 was the 'kiss of death'.  Turns out - not really.

While no preseason #2 has so far ever won the 'big doorstop' (I hope Greg never copyrighted the term! ), 2 of them did also finish the year at #2 (William Paterson, 2001, and Amherst, 2008), and Wooster, 2007, finished 4th.  Others have been at worst slight disappointments: Hampden-Sydney, 2000, finished 7th and IWU, 2005, 10th.  Carthage (#21 in 2003) and Gustavus Adolphus (#23 in 2004) were probably not pleased, but not totally embarassed.  The real flops were Augustana last year (18-8, 10 points in the ORV), UW-Oshkosh (2006, 17-9, no votes), and [greatest egg ever laid in the d3hoops.com poll era ] my own IWU in 2002 (finished with a 12-13 record).

[nwhoops1903]

Should Whitworth begin their conference schedule 2-0 (on the road) and after the big home win vs Whitewater, would it be conceivable to see a big bounce and I mean BIG bounce back into the poll?  This would make 8 straight wins after a horrid first 3 games and sit 9-2.  Just wondering if I should get my hopes up.

[John Gleich]

In light of JCU's flop (so far, at least), and well remembering 'skosh in 2005-06 (who started 3-3 and were never heard from again in the poll), I got to wondering if preseason #2 was the 'kiss of death'.  Turns out - not really.

While no preseason #2 has so far ever won the 'big doorstop' (I hope Greg never copyrighted the term! ), 2 of them did also finish the year at #2 (William Paterson, 2001, and Amherst, 2008), and Wooster, 2007, finished 4th.  Others have been at worst slight disappointments: Hampden-Sydney, 2000, finished 7th and IWU, 2005, 10th.  Carthage (#21 in 2003) and Gustavus Adolphus (#23 in 2004) were probably not pleased, but not totally embarassed.  The real flops were Augustana last year (18-8, 10 points in the ORV), UW-Oshkosh (2006, 17-9, no votes), and [greatest egg ever laid in the d3hoops.com poll era ] my own IWU in 2002 (finished with a 12-13 record).

You can't fault the 2004 GAC team... they were really, really good and they ran into what would become a juggernaut in UWSP.  The final score of that game was 66-55 but it was much closer than that and it was as tough a scratch and claw win as we had all year.  There was a little retribution from the year before... but I think they might have ended right back in Salem if they'd beaten us instead of the other way around.  And they did have a ton coming back from a team that had the national championship in the bag the year before.

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared

Two games still in progress -- I will try to fill those in later tonight in edits.  Complete
(Monday morning) corrected the Williams/USM score -- thanks, hugenerd.

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	625	Washington U.	9-1	LOST to (n) Transylvania, 69-73; def. Kalamazoo, 70-44
#2	597	St. Thomas	8-1	LOST at #5 UW-Stevens Point, 56-78; def. Macalester, 76-52
#3	574	UW-Whitewater	12-1	LOST at Whitworth, 84-94
#4	537	Randolph-Macon	10-0	def. Massachusetts College, 82-52; def. #10 Williams, 79-74
#5	527	UW-Stevens Point	11-1	def. #2 St. Thomas, 78-56; def. Viterbo, 75-57
#6	491	Guilford	10-1	def. Ohio Wesleyan, 79-72; def. Marietta, 82-60
#7	445	Middlebury	9-0	def. RPI, 63-52; def. Hamilton, 62-47
#8	408	Wheaton (Ill.)	8-3	LOST to (n) Hamline, 68-69; def. Monmouth, 84-53; def. Pomona-Pitzer, 102-100 4OT
#9	356	John Carroll	7-4	LOST to Medaille, 91-92; LOST at Bethany, 63-85
#10	333	Williams	10-1	def. Elmira, 85-64; LOST at #4 Randolph-Macon, 74-79; def. Southern Maine, 93-59
#11	303	Amherst	7-1	def. Stevenson, 69-56
#12	296	St. Norbert	8-1	LOST to Northwestern (Minn.), 70-72; def. T#29 Chicago, 71-60
#13	292	Brandeis	7-1	IDLE
#14	276	Wilmington	10-2	LOST to Thomas More, 90-92
#15	249	Mississippi College	9-0	IDLE
#16	242	Texas-Dallas	7-3	LOST at UT-Arlington, 64-72
#17	238	Franklin and Marshall	8-2	def. Susquehanna, 87-80; def. Manhattanville, 63-57
#18	208	Virginia Wesleyan	10-1	def. Bridgewater (Va.), 77-73
#19	183	Chapman	11-2	LOST at Hawai'i Pacific, 58-70; def. BYU-Hawaii, 76-70 OT
#20	160	Augustana	7-4	LOST at Buena Vista, 66-76
#21	144	MIT	11-1	IDLE
#22	128	Mass-Dartmouth	6-4	LOST to (n) Ramapo, 90-92; LOST to (n) Wesley, 72-91
#23	91	Carthage	8-3	LOST to (n) Wilkes, 61-72; def. King's, 69-46
#24	81	Anderson	11-1	def. Oberlin, 84-61; def. Howard Payne, 81-67
#25	50	St. Mary's (Md.)	10-2	def. Averett, 69-64; def. Hampden-Sydney, 70-69

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	36	Wooster	8-4	def. Kalamazoo, 70-41; def. Transylvania, 75-65
#27	33	Richard Stockton	8-3	def. Bridgewater State, 77-68; def. Moravian, 72-71
#28	32	Illinois Wesleyan	9-2	def. Southwestern, 91-75
T#29	26	Chicago	6-5	LOST to (n) Edgewood, 61-67; LOST at #12 St. Norbert, 60-71; LOST to Milwaukee Engineering, 62-64
T#29	26	Worcester Polytech	10-1	def. Fitchburg State, 85-47
#31	24	Elms	6-2	IDLE
#32	21	Western Connecticut	8-1	IDLE
#33	20	Eastern Mennonite	9-1	def. Hampden-Sydney, 88-71
T#34	18	Hope	7-4	def. Madonna, 72-68; def. Davenport, 77-62
T#34	18	UW-La Crosse	11-2	def. Hardin-Simmons, 75-56; def. Mary Hardin-Baylor, 86-78
#36	16	DeSales	7-4	def. Centenary, 101-64; LOST to Alvernia, 68-74
#37	7	York (Pa.)	11-1	def. Rosemont, 67-62; def. Gettysburg, 86-61
#38	5	UW-Platteville	8-4	def. Lewis and Clark, 84-76 OT; LOST to (n) Westminster (Utah), 68-71
T#39	2	Cabrini	7-1	IDLE
T#39	2	Cornell	9-3	LOST at Lakeland, 72-75
T#39	2	Illinois College	7-3	LOST to (n) Goshen, 79-95; def. Bluffton, 65-50
T#39	2	McMurry	7-3	LOST at UTSA, 58-84
#43	1	Rochester	7-1	IDLE

[Ralph Turner]

Fourteen of the 22 teams that played in the recent week lost at least one game!

[John Gleich]

So... who's #1?  Does Wash U retain it, even though they lost?  Point should be ahead of St. Thomas because SP beat UST...  Whitewater lost to an unranked team, but they've beaten Point (albeit in OT, at home) and Randolph-Macon beat a previously undefeated Williams team... after having hopped over UWSP in last week's voting.

Wheaton, JCU, and Williams should all drop out of the top 10... and there are plenty of teams (Amherst, Brandeis, Mississippi College) who can jump in.  And I don't think any of the top 3 drop any lower than about #6...  but I've no idea about the order.  I didn't, however, see R-MC hopping over Point last week, so I may be completely off base.

One thing I'm pretty sure of... there are going to be a lot of #1 votes scattered around a lot of teams.

Whadda ya think?

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

RMC has history, an undefeated record, and a decent schedule thus far.  I think they deserve the votes at this point.

[Mr. Ypsi]

For #1, I'll take a stab at:

1. UWSP (destroyed former #2 UST)
2. RMC (beat former #10, undefeated Williams; is undefeated)
3. take your pick - probably WashU, possibly Guilford