Top 25 talk

[John Gleich]

#23 La Crosse visits #2 Stevens Point

This should be a heck of a ballgame.  La Crosse has two of the best guards in the conference.  The Eagles also bring the conference's longest winning streak (7 games).  They just squeaked by Superior on Wednesday, and Point just squeaked by Oshkosh.

The question from La Crosse is where is additional scoring going to come from...  they have just one other guy averaging more than 8 points.  The Eagles compensate by having the second best defense in the conference (67 ppg) to Point (59 ppg) so this may be another grind-it-out type of game, like the Point/Oshkosh game was Wed.  Those types of games fall right into LaX and Oshkosh's hands because Point likes to push it and score.  Because they've got the best defense, they have the ability to shut teams down and work for the scores...

I think at #23, LaX is under-rated.  Massey has them at #5 and the other ratings TitanQ just posted does too.  Definitely check this one out if you have the chance!

[nescac1]

Phew, Ephs hold on after nearly blowing an 11 point lead with three minutes left.  Some crazy three's by Amherst, two straight front-end-of-1-and-1 misses, and some crazy calls (if you foul the same guy, TWICE in a row, prior to an inbounds pass, one time running him over, you'd THINK that would be called intentional ...) almost brought Amherst a miracle comeback.  As is, the Ephs should move up to around 7, displacing the three New England teams that all lost.  Ephs were fortunate as Amherst was just abominable from the foul line, shooting 27 percent. 

Since I had to hear from the I told you so brigade after Midd's lost, I guess turnabout is fair play after Brandeis loses by double-digits to an unranked team, right ?

[Hugenerd]

Since I had to hear from the I told you so brigade after Midd's lost, I guess turnabout is fair play after Brandeis loses by double-digits to an unranked team, right ?

I kind-of called this one. Brandeis will have trouble with big teams, as they lack size and depth.  The three 6'8" guys for NYU had a combined 32 points (11-18 FG) and 21 rebounds (Brandeis was outrebounded 39-32).  Add to that that Roberson and Small were both off (combined 3-25 from the field) and Brandeis has no good guards to substitute, and they really had no chance.  NYU lead by 10 +-3 for essentially the final 32 minutes of the game.  All this despite Brandeis being being +12 on turnover margin, +24 on FGAs, and NYU missing 10 FTs.  This game could have been a lot uglier in terms of the final score, but Brandeis scrapped to keep it relatively close.

By the way, a night after handling #7 Mddlebury on the road, Colby Sawyer lost by 20 to Regis (MA) who is 5-7 with the win.  That loss isnt looking too stellar.

[Pat Coleman]

I don't think anyone argued that Brandeis was not overrated at No. 8.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I don't think anyone argued that Brandeis was not overrated at No. 8.

Obviously some of your voters would have argued that!

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I said this on Hoopsville Thursday... I will paraphase that thought... I think we might be in a situtation where a lot of voters are comfortable with who the top five or six teams are... but after that they are not thrilled with where to put the rest.

Let me put it this way... I am happy with my Top 6... BUT who to put in 7-15 and then 15-25 is tough... mainly because who I want to put in 7-15 is really who I want, say, in 12-25. In other words... the team I wam putting #7... I don't feel comfortable with at #7... but I don't have anyone else I want to put in over that #7 team. So... instead of leaving the #7-12 slots empty... I have to fill them in... so some teams are a bit higher on ballots then the voters may want... but there aren't any other teams to put there.

That all being said... I have said I think Amherst is way too high... and feel Brandeis has been too high... but I can't blame voters who don't know who deserves to be above teams when after #6... no one has really stepped up and indicated they belong in the Top 10 or 15.

[Hugenerd]

I said this on Hoopsville Thursday... I will paraphase that thought... I think we might be in a situtation where a lot of voters are comfortable with who the top five or six teams are... but after that they are thrilled with where to put the rest.

Let me put it this way... I am happy with my Top 6... BUT who to put in 7-15 and then 15-25 is tough... mainly because who I want to put in 7-15 is really who I want, say, in 12-25. In other words... the team I wam putting #7... I don't feel comfortable at #7... but I don't have anyone else I want to put in over that #7 team. So... instead of leaving the #7-12 slots empty... I have to fill them in so some teams are a bit higher on ballots then the voters may want... but there aren't any other teams to put there.

That all being said... I have said I think Amherst is way too high... and feel Brandeis has been too high... but I can't blame voters who don't know who deserves to be above teams when after #6... no one has really stepped up and indicated they belong in the Top 10 or 15.

I liked the argument that you made at the end of Hoopsville on Thursday.  I agree, there seems to be a bunch of teams in that "second tier" that you could make an argument for all of them to be anywhere between #7 and #20 (or lower in the case of some teams)

I would just go with your gut and vote for MIT at #7

[Pat Coleman]

I don't think anyone argued that Brandeis was not overrated at No. 8.

Obviously some of your voters would have argued that!

Touche.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

MIT #7 - just might happen if these losses keep happening!

[Hugenerd]

MIT #7 - just might happen if these losses keep happening!

That would be nice, but they are going to have to beat WPI next Wednesday first (they arent getting up to #7 this week).  I mentioned this on the Pick Em board, but MIT has not beaten WPI in 7 years.  It would be a big win for them in conference.

[toooldtoplay]

I give MIT a +3 at home. Thoughts??

[Hugenerd]

I give MIT a +3 at home. Thoughts??

It is really going to be a clash of styles, WPI really only plays one player taller than 6'4" while MIT only really plays 2 players shorter than 6'5" (they play a 3rd when the starting PG gets into foul trouble, but usually no more than 5-8 minutes).  WPI is going to try to push the ball, they may try to press, and do whatever they can to quicken the pace.  MIT will be methodical and work the ball through the post (they play 4 players 6'8"+) and run their offense.   I would expect the game to be similar on Wednesday to today's game.  It will probably be a close game around half time and MITs size will eventually wear down WPI and they will pull it out in the end because they get a lot of easy buckets in the post.  I am not too concerned with a press by WPI because at the beginning of the second half today, Babson tried a press and it was successful until MIT figured it out after about 2 or 3 posessions and went on a huge run to blow them out.  I dont know how WPI is going to keep Noel Hollingsworth from getting to the spots he wants in the post.  It will be interesting to see how things unfold on Wednesday.

[ScotsFan]

Since I had to hear from the I told you so brigade after Midd's lost, I guess turnabout is fair play after Brandeis loses by double-digits to an unranked team, right ?

Personally, I wasn't arguing that Midd was alone in being overrated.  I just felt as though you couldn't really make an argument that Brandeis was over-rated without looking in the mirror if you were a Midd fan.

IMO, they were both overrated as I stated earlier.

[Titan Q]

I said this on Hoopsville Thursday... I will paraphase that thought... I think we might be in a situtation where a lot of voters are comfortable with who the top five or six teams are... but after that they are not thrilled with where to put the rest.

Let me put it this way... I am happy with my Top 6... BUT who to put in 7-15 and then 15-25 is tough... mainly because who I want to put in 7-15 is really who I want, say, in 12-25. In other words... the team I wam putting #7... I don't feel comfortable with at #7... but I don't have anyone else I want to put in over that #7 team. So... instead of leaving the #7-12 slots empty... I have to fill them in... so some teams are a bit higher on ballots then the voters may want... but there aren't any other teams to put there.

That all being said... I have said I think Amherst is way too high... and feel Brandeis has been too high... but I can't blame voters who don't know who deserves to be above teams when after #6... no one has really stepped up and indicated they belong in the Top 10 or 15.

I definitely agree with this.  A lot of years, my "voting comfort level" extends to about #15.  Heading into the vote tomorrow, however, I have just 7 teams I feel really confident about:

Randolph-Macon
UW-Stevens
Wash U
UW-Whitewater
Virginia Wesleyan
Guilford
St. Thomas

After that small group, I have plenty of good teams to choose from, but I honestly don't have any confidence that my #8 team (and I have no idea who that will be right now) is any better than my #25.

At the top, I also struggle to create any separation between R-M, UW-Stevens Point, Wash U.

This is a really fun year to vote...I'll take a year of parity anytime!

[Titan Q]

I don't think anyone argued that Brandeis was not overrated at No. 8.

Obviously some of your voters would have argued that!

Guilty as charged.  I let Brandeis get up to #8 on my Week 5 ballot.  See above though - it's a struggle for me after #7...I know there is a legit #8 for me, but have no idea who that is.