Top 25 talk

[John Gleich]

In the newest Massey ratings, Stevens Point is ranked a spot ahead of College of Charleston, who beat UNC last week. 

http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb

So, by the transitive property, UC Santa Cruz is better than UNC!

(Point is ahead of Col of Charleston... SP lost to Whitewater who lost to Whitworth who lost to Pomona-Pizter who lost to 5-11 UC Santa Cruz!)

It may certainly be possible to go farther than that... this just took me about 30 seconds. 

Point is listed as the 133rd best team in the country and 4th best in Wisconsin, after UW, Marquette, and Wisconsin Green Bay (just one spot behind UWGB, where, incidentally, former UWSP, WIAC, and D-III POY Jason Kalsow is an assistant coach).

Another interesting tidbit...  All 9 WIAC teams are ahead of Wisconsin's lone D-II school, UW Parkside.  Parkside's at 801, and the lowest WIAC school Oshkosh, is at 710. 

Just 7 D-II schools are slotted ahead of Point, one NAIA-I team, and 125 D-I teams.

One year a while back it was Gustavus Adolphus who was in the same position as Brandeis has been this year -- floating up to an undeservedly high rating based upon better teams rated above the Gusties losing and subsequently dropping below GAC in the next poll. I referred to it as "the St. Peter Principle" ... the deafening silence that ensued told me that either nobody got it or it was not as good of a pun as I thought.

I don't remember seeing that, otherwise I would have affirmed you!  That's pretty funny and a pretty accurate description!

[Ralph Turner]

...
Point is listed as the 133rd best team in the country and 4th best in Wisconsin, after UW, Marquette, and Wisconsin Green Bay (just one spot behind UWGB, where, incidentally, former UWSP, WIAC, and D-III POY Jason Kalsow is an assistant coach).

Another interesting tidbit...  All 9 WIAC teams are ahead of Wisconsin's lone D-II school, UW Parkside.  Parkside's at 801, and the lowest WIAC school Oshkosh, is at 710.  

Just 7 D-II schools are slotted ahead of Point, one NAIA-I team, and 125 D-I teams.

Has there ever been any interest in UW-Parkside moving up to D-III?

Does it really benefit in the D-II model for them?

[Mr. Ypsi]

...
Point is listed as the 133rd best team in the country and 4th best in Wisconsin, after UW, Marquette, and Wisconsin Green Bay (just one spot behind UWGB, where, incidentally, former UWSP, WIAC, and D-III POY Jason Kalsow is an assistant coach).

Another interesting tidbit...  All 9 WIAC teams are ahead of Wisconsin's lone D-II school, UW Parkside.  Parkside's at 801, and the lowest WIAC school Oshkosh, is at 710.  

Just 7 D-II schools are slotted ahead of Point, one NAIA-I team, and 125 D-I teams.

Has there ever been any interest in UW-Parkside moving up to D-III?

Does it really benefit in the D-II model for them?

Assuming Parkside already has scholarships, why would they want to give them up and be even more  clearly DOA?

[I know nothing about their other sports.]

[Hugenerd]

Babson beats #9 Amherst 65-59 at home, two days after falling to #15 MIT by 27 (72-45) in the same gym.

[Titan Q]

Babson beats #9 Amherst 65-59 at home, two days after falling to #15 MIT by 27 (72-45) in the same gym.

I really hate Monday upsets.  They make me feel like my ballot is all screwed up for another 7 days!

[OxyBob]

Another interesting tidbit...  All 9 WIAC teams are ahead of Wisconsin's lone D-II school, UW Parkside.  Parkside's at 801, and the lowest WIAC school Oshkosh, is at 710. 

Here's an article about teaching at UW-Parkside:

http://hnn.us/articles/1019.html

OxyBob

[Ralph Turner]

Another interesting tidbit...  All 9 WIAC teams are ahead of Wisconsin's lone D-II school, UW Parkside.  Parkside's at 801, and the lowest WIAC school Oshkosh, is at 710. 

Here's an article about teaching at UW-Parkside:

http://hnn.us/articles/1019.html

OxyBob

Wow!  Having read the article, I am glad that UW-Parkside "chose D-II"!

Thanks for finding the link.  +1! 

[WUPHF]

Assuming Parkside already has scholarships, why would they want to give them up and be even more  clearly DOA?

[I know nothing about their other sports.]

UW-Parkside is in the Great Lakes Valley Conference, a soccer school in a soccer conference.  They also field competitive volleyball teams, if I remember correctly.  

It is interesting thinking about what motivates athletic directors.  Truman State, my alma mater, regularly fields competitive soccer, volleyball, and swim teams, and usually does well in the Director's Cup, but their basketball teams regularly finish with 5 or 6 wins and football wins 1 or 2 in a good year.  UW-Parkside Basketball is extremely competitive by comparison.

The article from Professor Reeves describes apathetic students.  It seems to me that he is describing a host of regional state colleges, including a host of Division III schools.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Another interesting tidbit...  All 9 WIAC teams are ahead of Wisconsin's lone D-II school, UW Parkside.  Parkside's at 801, and the lowest WIAC school Oshkosh, is at 710. 

Here's an article about teaching at UW-Parkside:

http://hnn.us/articles/1019.html

OxyBob

Wow!  Having read the article, I am glad that UW-Parkside "chose D-II"!

Thanks for finding the link.  +1! 

Not so fast.

I applaud Parkside for trying to reach underachieving students.  Many will flounder (some of whom will get it together later, and succeed).  Some, who would NEVER have been admitted to Occidental or McMurry, will discover the wonders of a real education (perhaps not an option at their high school) and blossom.

I taught at several totally 'open enrollment' schools (and most of my career at Eastern Michigan, which is virtually open enrollment: admitting something like 80% of applicants).  It is a tremendous challenge, but also a tremendous opportunity.  While I had plenty of students who were majoring in 'beer', and plenty who were (at least for then) hopelessly behind, I also had students who could have gotten a 4.0 at Harvard but were monetarily challenged, and those who simply had the guts to thrive.  (I'll never forget one student, totally beaten down by her family then her abusive husband, that I finally approached about 9:30 one December evening: "Diane, if you had not even shown up for the final, you had an A!  Everyone else left at least 20 minutes ago, please go home!")

Another tale, about the 'finally got it': I had a student, a marvelous jazz singer, but with NO educational background.  She had flunked statistics twice, once from someone else, once from me.  Even though I had failed her, she apparently saw something.  She tried me for her third (and last) attempt.  She got an A (which would have been an A+ if EMU allowed it).  She didn't give up; I didn't give up; 'something' finally 'clicked'.  She, of course, would never have been admitted at 'most' schools.  [She is now a social services administrator (and still a marvelous jazz singer).]

At schools like Parkside, there will be lots of students who are 'not college material' (and, realistically, many will forever be not college material), but I would not want to live in a country where second chances (or, in the case of truly failing high schools, first chances) are not available.  Occidental and McMurry are not obligated to take them, but I'm glad there are places like Parkside.

[Ralph Turner]

Fair enough!

Thanks for the input, and I stand corrected.  

My response was too hasty.

McMurry is definitely not Oxy, and we have a tremendous number of borderline kids coming from rural and lower middle class America.  (There are no BMW's on the McMurry campus.  We are definitely pulling from a different social strata than Southwestern or Southern Methodist, two other United Methodist affiliated colleges in the state.  Likewise Hendrix, Centenary and Millsaps as well.)

I had my first "rejection" this last week.  A kid that I recommended apply to McMurry, with several "take a chance on him" letters in the admissions packet, needs 12 credit hours more work before he will be accepted.  (He awakened too late in his high school career to the fact that grades mean things.)

That article pushed the wrong button.  I value education and the quest for learning too much to see it disdained.

[Hugenerd]

Education in America really is unique compared to other countries.  Anyone who wants to can get a college education.  I know in many European countries, only the top 1/3 or so (fraction will vary by country) are admitted to college through standardized testing, so others must just find a job or retake the exams over each year until they score high enough.

[John Gleich]

...
Point is listed as the 133rd best team in the country and 4th best in Wisconsin, after UW, Marquette, and Wisconsin Green Bay (just one spot behind UWGB, where, incidentally, former UWSP, WIAC, and D-III POY Jason Kalsow is an assistant coach).

Another interesting tidbit...  All 9 WIAC teams are ahead of Wisconsin's lone D-II school, UW Parkside.  Parkside's at 801, and the lowest WIAC school Oshkosh, is at 710.  

Just 7 D-II schools are slotted ahead of Point, one NAIA-I team, and 125 D-I teams.

Has there ever been any interest in UW-Parkside moving up to D-III?

Does it really benefit in the D-II model for them?

Assuming Parkside already has scholarships, why would they want to give them up and be even more  clearly DOA?

[I know nothing about their other sports.]

To be true, I don't really think that Parkside is worse than all of the WIAC teams...  but I checked the Sears Cup rankings and Parkside hasn't gotten a point yet, though they do appear to have a top 10 wrestling team.

I know the conference they're in is a very good one in many sports... This is the same conference as Southern Indiana and Kentucky Wesleyan who have historically been good in basketball, and Parkside has had ranked D-II teams in the last 3 or 4 years if my memory serves me correctly.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Yeah, that is why occasional outbreaks of d3 'elitism' drive me crazy.  Diane had absolutely zero self-esteem after her childhood and abusive marriage, and would (at thirty) NEVER have made it into most schools - she is probably in my top ten of most brilliant students in 32 years.  The 'jazz singer' (so talented that some of you may know of her, so I'll leave it at that) had NO education throughout high school (when I taught her the first time, she didn't know arithmetic things that my 8 year old knew)); she had the native intelligence and drive to overcome all that.

Neither they nor dozens of other successful students I taught over the years would have had any chance of getting into most colleges.  (Not picking on anyone - they probably wouldn't have gotten into IWU either.)  And make no mistake - many of the students I taught had no business being in ANY college (and I proudly did my job of sending many of them packing); though I'm also proud to say that a handful of those 'sent packing' returned a few years later and did very well.

College may be currently oversold - not everyone will benefit, and we will always need workers that college will not (directly, at least) benefit - but I'm proud to live in a country where everyone has that opportunity to blossom.  OxyBob MAY have just been providing information, but considering his frequent potshots at the WIAC I have my doubts on motive.

[sac]

This is the same conference as Southern Indiana and Kentucky Wesleyan who have historically been good in basketball,

this might be an understatement   

Kentucky Wesleyan 8 National Championships, 5 runner-ups
Southern Indiana 1 National Championship, 2 runner-ups

NKU and SIU have combined to win 24 of the 31 GLVC basketball championships

56 combined appearances in the NCAA tournament.

[Hugenerd]

New poll is out:

http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/