Top 25 talk

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

The excitement over Whitworth is a mystery to me.  I understand that early season games do not always provide good predictors on how well a team will play as the season rolls on, but take out the win over UW-Whitewater and what do you have?

I was not impressed with Whitworth in St. Louis versus Pomona-Pitzer and equally unimpressed by the win over McKendree (that was the perfect example of McKendree having a team on the ropes).  Seriously, McKendree is not that good.

What else do they have?  A huge loss to UW-Stevens Point and an equally huge win over UW-Whitewater.  Two wins over the Banana Slugs.

I defended this team in the thread early on (in part, because I did not see the margin of loss in the first game).  I am an amateur fan at best.  I admit it.  So, what am I missing here?

At this point I think it has more to do with the fact that they've played some top teams and gotten results.  Granted, some of their games have been against weak opponents, but no more so than 2/3rds of the Top 25 at this point.

It seems like there are fewer teams with strong early season schedules this year.  I believe conference play will give us a better picture of where teams really are in the weeks to come.

[WUPHF]

OK, thanks guys for your thoughts.

It does seem to me as well that there are fewer teams with strong early season schedules, especially compared to last year.

Well, I think I am going to go watch the latest buzzer beaters again.  That Wheaton/WPI might be my favorite so far. 

[magicman]

Note that Stevens Point has beaten a few good teams handily...

UW-SP 101 Whitworth 79
UW-SP 78 St. Thomas 56
UW-SP 73 UW-La Crosse 57

Early on I was holding that margin of defeat against Whitworth, but I no longer am.  The Pointers appear to be the real deal.

I agree, Q. No other team in the poll has 3 wins over a currently ranked Top 25 team, much less 3 double digit whippings. Washington U comes close with 3 wins over teams that were ranked at the time the games took place(IWU, Wheaton, and Augustana) and Randoph-Macon has done the same.(DeSales, Wooster, and Williams) But the dominance by the Pointers has been unmatched. They're #1 in my book.     

[nwhoops1903]

The excitement over Whitworth is a mystery to me.  I understand that early season games do not always provide good predictors on how well a team will play as the season rolls on, but take out the win over UW-Whitewater and what do you have?

I was not impressed with Whitworth in St. Louis versus Pomona-Pitzer and equally unimpressed by the win over McKendree (that was the perfect example of McKendree having a team on the ropes).  Seriously, McKendree is not that good.

What else do they have?  A huge loss to UW-Stevens Point and an equally huge win over UW-Whitewater.  Two wins over the Banana Slugs.

I defended this team in the thread early on (in part, because I did not see the margin of loss in the first game).  I am an amateur fan at best.  I admit it.  So, what am I missing here?

In the what have you done for me lately department.   Whitworth has not been defeated since the loss to PP and has led every minute of their 4 conference games except for 30 seconds in the opening minute vs LC.  Add the last 23:43 of Wisc-WW and thats every minute but :30 for their last 183 minutes of basketball.  10 game winning streak, take away the PP loss (by 1) and Point Special is correct, WW would be a top 10 today.  Clearly one of the hottest teams in D3.  The win over Whitewater validates their accomplishments and improvement after the poor opening night showing against a very good #2 team in Stevens Point.  Finally, the Massey info lends even more credence to their reinstatement in the poll as a big mover.

[WUPHF]

In the what have you done for me lately department.   Whitworth has not been defeated since the loss to PP and has led every minute of their 4 conference games except for 30 seconds in the opening minute vs LC.  Add the last 23:43 of Wisc-WW and thats every minute but :30 for their last 183 minutes of basketball.  10 game winning streak, take away the PP loss (by 1) and Point Special is correct, WW would be a top 10 today.  Clearly one of the hottest teams in D3.  The win over Whitewater validates their accomplishments and improvement after the poor opening night showing against a very good #2 team in Stevens Point.  Finally, the Massey info lends even more credence to their reinstatement in the poll as a big mover.

Thanks for the response.  I ask about Whitworth because it is one of the few teams I watched play this year.  I realize that both games were early season, but I was not particuarly impressed with either game.  And, if you take a cursory glance at the schedule, practically every team they played has a losing record.

So, huge win, huge loss, good wins against McKendree (13-5) and UW-Stout (7-7) and the rest, well I will take you word on it.  I trust the experts here.

(modified by GS for formatting)

[Greek Tragedy]

I agree, Q. No other team in the poll has 3 wins over a currently ranked Top 25 team, much less 3 double digit whippings. Washington U comes close with 3 wins over teams that were ranked at the time the games took place(IWU, Wheaton, and Augustana) and Randoph-Macon has done the same.(DeSales, Wooster, and Williams) But the dominance by the Pointers has been unmatched. They're #1 in my book.     

Point also beat Puget Sound by double digits when they were ranked at the beginning of the year as well...a day after taking care of Whitworth.

[Greek Tragedy]

So, huge win, huge loss, good wins against McKendree (13-5) and UW-Stout (7-7) and the rest, well I will take you word on it.  I trust the experts here.

I wouldn't get too excited about that "good" win over Stout just yet.  Though they've won two in a row, including an upset win over Platteville, they've only beaten one team above .500, and that was Platteville.

Some say in the WIAC board that they are starting to improve and could pull an upset or two more before the conference season ends, but all because they are a WIAC team doesn't automatically mean it's a good win.

edit:  Lewis and Clark State is currently 10-6

[WUPHF]

OK, I promise that this is the last post I will ever make regarding Whitworth, because obviously I do not know a lot about basketball outside of my Washington University bubble.

I wouldn't get too excited about that "good" win over Stout just yet.  Though they've won two in a row, including an upset win over Platteville, they've only beaten one team above .500, and that was Platteville.

I referred to the win over Stout as a good win because, after a very quick glance at the records and Massey Ratings, they are the next best win after Whitewater and McKendree.  And, this is really why I brought this up in the first place.  Whitworth has eight wins over teams with losing records.  Even if you looked at Whitworth as a one loss team...OK, nevermind.

Thanks again for everyone that addressed my question.

[John Gleich]

I referred to the win over Stout as a good win because, after a very quick glance at the records and Massey Ratings, they are the next best win after Whitewater and McKendree.  And, this is really why I brought this up in the first place.  Whitworth has eight wins over teams with losing records.  Even if you looked at Whitworth as a one loss team...OK, nevermind.

Thanks again for everyone that addressed my question.

... I dunno that this:

OK, I promise that this is the last post I will ever make regarding Whitworth, because obviously I do not know a lot about basketball outside of my Washington University bubble.

I've read your posts and I think you've got great insight that extends beyond one school in St. Louis.

I think OS's comment...

I wouldn't get too excited about that "good" win over Stout just yet.  Though they've won two in a row, including an upset win over Platteville, they've only beaten one team above .500, and that was Platteville.

... is merely tempering any great excitement over the Blue Devils.  They are again a .500 team, and they're not the bottom-most team in the conference.  In fact, as OS said, they've won two straight, including a win over a pretty good Platteville team.  And if you look at Stout's 4 conference losses, three of them are to the top three (and ranked) conference teams.  I think that this win will look better for Whitworth... and I was the one who was saying that Whitworth was too low.  I watched Stout/Whitewater, and they (Stout) had Whitewater on the ropes.  As it turns out, I also watched Whitworth/Whitewater... and I could see the type of team they appeared to be and the team they seemed like they could become.

And though they haven't beaten a ton of top teams, they have beaten the teams that they've played (except for P-P) that they were supposed to beat.  And one they weren't.  What else do they need to do?

I think at this point of the season, there are teams that fall in one of several categories.

1. They started strong, and they continue strong
2. They started strong, and they have declined
3. They started slowly and have gotten better
4. They started slowly and haven't gotten better
5. ?    (in other words, you can't ever really tell where they are or where they're going)

I think Whitworth is in category 1.  Stout is in category 3.



As an aside, EMU has extended a 6 point halftime lead on R-MC to 15 about 4 minutes into the second half.

[John Gleich]

Eastern Mennonite's lead on Randoph-Macon is now 20, 71-51 with 12:28 in the half.

R-MC is going to need another monumental comeback to win this one!

[magicman]

Eastern Mennonite is up 89-67 on RMC with just 3:00 to play now. Pointers will be the new #1 if they don't lose this week

[John Gleich]

Eastern Mennonite is up 89-67 on RMC with just 3:00 to play now. Pointers will be the new #1 if they don't lose this week

They're up 38-10 on UW Platteville with under 2 minutes left in the first half.  They've held the Pios to 3 first half field goals.

Now 40-14... Platteville's on a tear, two straight buckets.

[magicman]

Final: Eastern Mennonite 90  Randy-Macon 67

[magicman]

Wheaton up on Augustana  29-22 with 2:30 left in the 1st half

[Hugenerd]

MIT trounces WPI 76-53.  WPI was held to 11 points below their lowest scoring output of the year (and that was in a win) and 30 points below their scoring average. Mitch Kates controlled the tempo of the entire game, but there were a lot of contributors.  Noel Hollingsworth had another impressive perfomance with 16 points and 10 rebounds (9th double-double of year) on 7-10 shooting.