Top 25 talk

[nescac1]

If EMU doesn't lose again until the next poll, I don't see how they can possibly be any lower than fourth, but really, it seems like, at this point, there is a clear top two, in some order, with EMU and Stevens Point, followed by Wash U., the Guilford-VWC winner, UWW, and RMC, in some order.  If you didn't base anything on the name of the school, EMU would be number one -- blowing out a number one team, a road win over another top ten team, destroying almost every other team on the schedule, no D-3 losses?  Impressive.  Stevens Point is really the only team with an argument, based on results to date, maybe Wash U. since you have to give some credit to two straight national titles. 

If Williams takes care of business this weekend at home, I would think they move into sixth after that group, with MIT right behind in seventh.   If they don't, they deserve a serious drop, as these are the last easy games before a very tough stretch with 7/9 on the road (including at Midd) and two loseable home games against top-half NESCAC squads (Bowdoin and Colby). 

[BUBeaverFan]

One Mennonite school at or the near the top of the mountain, Eastern Mennonite, and one at or the near the bottom, Bluffton University.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

nescac1 - interesting points... but to your Williams... I for one am not completely convinced they are really great. I have seen Amherst in action... and with just a three point win over Amherst (who I have 22 in my last poll)... I can't push Williams higher then the #16 slot I have them in now. (Though, should we punish them for the $15 a game internet/video charge?  ). Though... I am just one voter.

As for RMC/EMU... WOW! I thought it would be a battle, but that is an impressive win my EMU. Certainly makes some things easier and tougher at the same time for voters.

[nescac1]

I won't claim that Williams is truly great yet, which is why I wouldn't rank them in the top five.  But to punish them for a close margin (and they were up 11 with three minutes left, a lot of weird things happened to close the gap including some odd calls, a few missed fron-end of one-and-one's which is not the Williams norm, and two ridiculous 3's by Amherst) over a very talented team who also happens to be their arch rival (for example, in 2007 a 16-12 Williams teams managed to beat eventual national champion Amherst in the NESCAC final on its home court ... weird things happen in rivalry games) seems a bit unfair.  Really, outside of Wash U. and the top-tier WIAC and ODAC teams, no one has looked ALL that great this year.  For all of the squads which, I imagine, you rank between 7-16 or so, I could easily point to a few losses and/or narrow wins that make you say hmmmmm.  At least Williams is 12-1, their loss was a very close road loss to a top-tier squad, and they've blown out every bad team they've played. 

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

nescac1 - my point is... if I have Williams #16 on my ballot... they still haven't given me a reason to move them into #10 or higher. I have seen Amherst play and while I agree it was a rivalry game, if Williams is going to move into #10 on my ballot... they had to do more then squeak that game out. I understand rivalry games, but I also understand that if a team is good enough to be #10 on my ballot... beating a team I barely have on my ballot by a couple points isn't good enough.

[dc_has_been]

My queston to Dave 'd-mac' McHugh, is what do you do with a team who is a dominate team and is in the top 25, but drops one to a team that is near .500?  I'm trying to get a clear picture to see how people rank teams, especially when there are sooooooooo many teams in college basketball, all divisions.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Jeez - that isn't easy. Who is the team near .500? Who have they beaten or lost to? The team that is dominating? Who have they really beaten?

All I am saying is I am not going to vault Williams into my Top 10 for a win over Amherst. They are #16... Amherst is #22 (my ballot) so I expected that win.

[nescac1]

I understand what you are saying.  But here's the thing -- from around 8 through 15 (I would guess) on your ballot, I don't think there are going to be many teams with wins BETTER than Williams' win vs. Amherst, and if a team does have such a win, they almost certainly have at least one loss, possibly more than one loss, WORSE than Williams' only loss, by five at RMC.  There really aren't more than 5-6 teams at this point who have a few quality wins without a few questionable losses ...

[dc_has_been]

Dave, I'm refering to WashingtonU's loss to Transy.  The rest of the top 25 have losses to teams in the top 25 except St. Thomas, but even their losses are to teams in the top 25 or receiving votes category.  So I guess I'm wondering where you would put WashU in your poll?

[Hugenerd]

Dave, I'm refering to WashingtonU's loss to Transy.  The rest of the top 25 have losses to teams in the top 25 except St. Thomas, but even their losses are to teams in the top 25 or receiving votes category.  So I guess I'm wondering where you would put WashU in your poll?

Correction, Eastern Mennonite and MIT have not lost to any D3 teams yet.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Wash U is #1 on my poll (shocking, I know). I just didn't have the mindset to put them below RMC (though, thought about it a second again this week) and while UWSP certainly looks strong, they lost to UWW, which I have above UWSP in my poll... and I couldn't put UWW above Wash U simply because I think Wash U is the better team.

That being said, it has concerned me with the games Wash U has had against teams I think they should dominate. My top 5 or 6 teams are all close together in my mind and I have spent plenty of time putting them in different slots over and over again until I was at least some what comfortable. The last two weeks it has been Wash U, RMC, UWW, UWSP, St. Thomas, Guilford. That will certainly undergo some changes this week... and I will once again debate if Wash U deserves that #1 vote from be (baring a loss).

And to answer nescac1's question... I don't think Williams better then the teams I have in the 8-15 slots.

[ECSUalum]

Congrats to the Engineers with their win over Conference rival, WPI, the other Engineers!

Although MIT's focus still as to be on reg season and Conference Championship, they will soon need to start to scout out other top New England  teams to prepare for NCAA tourney  .

Good luck for rest of season.

PS, Would love to see MIT dump Haarvud next year, as next year should be unbelievable!!

[dc_has_been]

Dave, I'm refering to WashingtonU's loss to Transy.  The rest of the top 25 have losses to teams in the top 25 except St. Thomas, but even their losses are to teams in the top 25 or receiving votes category.  So I guess I'm wondering where you would put WashU in your poll?

Correction, Eastern Mennonite and MIT have not lost to any D3 teams yet.

hugenerd, my bad, I  meant to put the top 5.  I'm not sure about the rest of the 20 teams and who their losses are to.  

Dave, thanks for letting me in on the info.  
IMO, I would have UWSP at the #1 considering their loss did come to UWW, but still it was at UWW place and a game that went to OT.  Since then they've pretty much dominated their competition having the smallest margin of victory being 6 points. I would put UWW at the #2, Guilford 3 only losing to Virginia Wesleyan at VW's place by 3, Wash U 4 and Virginia 5 to make thing interesting for Saturday.  And that would be my top 5 and two cents!

[Rhodes Scholar]

Here's a little info on Southern Virginia University, the only team to defeat Eastern Mennonite this year:

They're an NAIA 2 independent, with a 10-4 record. Two of those losses were to NCAA D1 opponents (Liberty and Campbell). SVU is 5-1 against D3 teams this year:

Bridgewater, VA (4-8) W, 91-65
vs. Wesley (7-6) @ CNU W, 76-71
at CNU (6-7) L, 93-82 (OT)
@ Shenandoah (4-11) W, 82-79
EMU (12-1) W, 92-79
Shenandoah (4-11) W, 93-79

EMU has a return game at home with SVU on January 28.

[Gregory Sager]

Good to see you back in the national rooms, Rhodes!