Top 25 talk

[John Gleich]

Eau Claire has Whitewater on the ropes... 69-59 UWEC leads with 3:38 to go.

Eau Claire beats #4 UW Whitewater  80-67

[Hugenerd]

5 of the top 8 teams have lost this week (#1, #3, #4, #5, and #8) and 6 of the top 11.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Any word on the St. Thomas game?

[Hugenerd]

St. Thomas up 37-31 at the half.  The start time is listed wrong on d3hoops.  It was an 8:00 (C) tip.

Webcast: http://www.mnsportsnetwork.com/

Find the channel 2 link near the middle of the page.

[Mr. Ypsi]

The Tommies survived the Johnnies by one in OT.

With St. John's having lost on Wednesday, and GAC losing today, NOT an impressive week for St. Thomas.

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	606	Randolph-Macon	14-1	LOST at #18 Eastern Mennonite, 67-90; def. Emory and Henry, 94-73
#2	594	UW-Stevens Point	15-1	def. UW-Platteville, 74-53; def. UW-Superior, 56-53
#3	577	Washington U.	12-2	LOST to #20 Brandeis, 55-58 OT; def. New York University, 60-57
#4	555	UW-Whitewater	14-2	def. UW-Oshkosh, 62-58 OT; LOST at UW-Eau Claire, 67-80
#5	526	St. Thomas	12-2	def. St. Mary's (Minn.), 77-68; LOST at #39 Gustavus Adolphus, 51-56; def. St. John's, 70-69 OT
#6	512	Guilford	14-1	def. Emory and Henry, 99-57; def. #8 Virginia Wesleyan, 71-56
#7	438	Williams	14-1	def. Tufts, 91-55; def. Bates, 92-62
#8	418	Virginia Wesleyan	14-2	def. Hampden-Sydney, 69-67; LOST at #6 Guilford, 56-71
#9	329	MIT	15-1	def. #36 Worcester Polytech, 76-53; def. Clark, 54-51
#10	328	Middlebury	14-1	def. Bates, 71-62; def. Tufts, 66-53
#11	322	Franklin and Marshall	12-3	def. Muhlenberg, 80-58; LOST to Washington College, 63-68 OT; def. McDaniel, 67-49
#12	318	St. Norbert	12-1	def. Knox, 60-47; def. Grinnell, 109-72
#13	302	Amherst	10-3	LOST at Babson, 59-65; def. Wesleyan, 87-71; def. Connecticut College, 89-82
#14	272	Anderson	15-1	def. Rose-Hulman, 68-65; def. Hanover, 74-70
#15	255	Wilmington	12-4	LOST to Capital, 73-78; LOST at Marietta, 57-74
#16	233	Chapman	14-2	def. West Coast Baptist, 77-59; def. La Sierra, 77-48
#17	212	St. Mary's (Md.)	13-2	def. Mary Washington, 91-86; def. Gallaudet, 83-52
#18	192	Eastern Mennonite	13-1	def. #1 Randolph-Macon, 90-67; def. Randolph, 86-74
#19	177	Medaille	14-1	LOST at Pitt-Bradford, 65-68; def. Pitt-Greensburg, 83-62
#20	150	Brandeis	11-2	def. Bates, 81-57; def. #3 Washington U., 58-55 OT; def. Chicago, 75-69
#21	138	Illinois Wesleyan	13-2	def. Millikin, 75-71; def. Elmhurst, 77-67
#22	126	Whitworth	13-2	def. Puget Sound, 78-70; def. Pacific Lutheran, 75-52
#23	92	Texas-Dallas	12-3	def. East Texas Baptist, 73-70; def. LeTourneau, 78-61
#24	81	UW-La Crosse	12-4	LOST to UW-River Falls, 75-83
#25	68	Mississippi College	12-2	def. Louisiana College, 76-63; def. Texas-Tyler, 73-58

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	60	Wheaton (Ill.)	10-5	def. #30 Augustana, 69-63; LOST at North Park, 73-75 OT
#27	59	Wooster	11-4	def. Allegheny, 69-68; def. Earlham, 63-54
#28	51	Richard Stockton	12-4	def. Hunter, 99-90; def. Kean, 82-68; LOST at #31 William Paterson, 57-63
#29	29	John Carroll	10-5	LOST to Heidelberg, 81-85; def. Ohio Northern, 92-59
#30	23	Augustana	9-6	LOST at #26 Wheaton (Ill.), 63-69; LOST to #38 Carthage, 64-69
#31	19	William Paterson	15-1	def. Rutgers-Newark, 61-57; def. #28 Richard Stockton, 63-57
#32	14	McMurry	9-5	LOST at Texas Lutheran, 61-65; def. Schreiner, 74-64
#33	11	Western Connecticut	10-3	LOST at Keene State, 90-96; def. Mass-Boston, 87-79
#34	10	DeSales	11-4	def. Misericordia, 74-60; def. FDU-Florham, 64-48
#35	8	Hope	9-6	LOST to Olivet, 64-67; def. Kalamazoo, 79-63
#36	7	Worcester Polytech	12-3	LOST at #9 MIT, 53-76; def. Coast Guard, 68-55
#37	5	York (Pa.)	13-3	LOST at Salisbury, 71-78; def. Stevenson, 88-58
#38	3	Carthage	11-4	def. Elmhurst, 79-52; def. #30 Augustana, 69-64
#39	2	Gustavus Adolphus	10-4	def. #5 St. Thomas, 56-51; LOST at Bethel, 52-54
T#40	1	Cabrini	12-1	def. Gwynedd-Mercy, 83-68; def. Keystone, 100-98; def. Rosemont, 74-63
T#40	1	Defiance	13-3	def. Franklin, 99-83
T#40	1	St. John Fisher	12-3	def. Keuka, 69-45; def. Rochester Tech, 77-57; LOST to (n) Rochester, 54-60

[John Gleich]

On Hoopsville tonight, a listener posted this top 10:

#1 Stevens Point
#2 Guilford
#3 Williams
#4 Randy Mac
#5 Whitewater
#6 Wash U
#7 MIT
#8 Middlebury
#9 St. Norbert
#10 Eastern Mennonite

Dave McHugh thought Randolph Macon and Williams should be swapped by virtue of R-MC's victory over the Ephs.  I like that better myself.

But I've got a huge problem with St. Norbert at #9.  Who have they beaten?  Well, everybody they've played except for Northwestern.  Now, if this was the Big T1E1N squad we're talking about, then that's respectable... but it's the UMAC team.  And it was at home.  Yes, they're the best UMAC team, but that isn't saying a whole lot.  The UMAC is on the bottom at Massey.  And Northwestern is rated # 121 in Massey.  Now, SNC is #15, and I guess I'm OK with that to a point... (I mean, they HAVE beaten everybody else they've played...)  But really, who is that?  Per KnightSlappy's RPI rankings, they've got the 74th highest rated RPI...  but their OWP is .414 and their OOWP is .540.  Now, more cannot be asked of them than to beat the teams they play... but if they keep playing teams that aren't good, and the teams above them who ARE playing tough teams lose, then the old St. Peter Principle is in action again (I'm going to use it til it gets old GS!).  It is absolutely possible that they very well may be the #15 team in the country... but how do we know unless they are tested by other top teams?  There should be a way to kind of cap them. 

I think part of the problem is that, unless you really take a look at a team like St. Norbert, it's hard to compare them to other teams that more may be more about in terms of who they've played.  The victories against Oshkosh, Elmhurst, and Chicago would have looked great last year or two years ago... But these three teams are .500 at best this year thus far.  They really don't have an impressive victory.

I think the same could be said about Anderson, but in many respects, they deserve a higher vote.  Their RPI is actually below that of St. Norbert at #80, with an OWP of .424 (a little better) and an OOWP of .497 (a little worse).  Anderson beat Wittenberg, giving them one of their two losses, and they've beaten conference rival Defiance and UW Platteville, who's a middle of the road team from a pretty stacked WIAC conference.  Their loss to Augustana is looking a little worse (Augie is 9-6) but that loss is better than SNC's to Northwestern (also 9-6 against much worse competition).  Anderson is #20 in Massey.

I'm still pretty high on Whitworth.... their loss to Pomona-Pitzer withstanding, they've beaten everybody but the soon-to-be #1 team in the country.  Their RPI is #17 with an OWP of .553 and an OOWP of .572, Massey #6.  And the Massey ratings are though last Sunday (probably will be updated tomorrow or Tuesday, I'd imagine).  I don't necessarily think Whitworth is a top 10 team... but they could be in the top 15.


Another interesting thing is the separation that had come together in last week's voting.  The top 8 had pretty well separated itself (and the top 6, too, for that matter).  But 4 of the top 6 (and 5/8) lost... albeit to 3 ranked or vote-getting teams.  Maybe the separation we thought we had really wasn't there.

Or, perhaps, the stars aligned just right and it was the time for teams to lose.  I dunno.  There are so many variables that come into these games on a given night (the least of which is home court advantage).  One has to wonder if Randy Mac really would have been favored in that game with EMU, or Wash U vs. Brandeis.  They're playing ranked opponents, on the other team's floor.

I don't think it's as pronounced as, say, Stevens Point/Whitewater was a month ago...  and even then, that game took overtime to figure itself out, but (and I don't have the stats on this... does anybody have some?) more often than not, home teams win.

[Hugenerd]

Couple issues with your comments.

I think part of the problem is that, unless you really take a look at a team like St. Norbert, it's hard to compare them to other teams that more may be more about in terms of who they've played.  The victories against Oshkosh, Elmhurst, and Chicago would have looked great last year or two years ago... But these three teams are .500 at best this year thus far.  They really don't have an impressive victory.

I hope that the two years ago is in reference to Chicago...they were dreadful last year, starting 0-12 before finishing 6-19.

Or, perhaps, the stars aligned just right and it was the time for teams to lose.  I dunno.  There are so many variables that come into these games on a given night (the least of which is home court advantage).  One has to wonder if Randy Mac really would have been favored in that game with EMU, or Wash U vs. Brandeis.  They're playing ranked opponents, on the other team's floor.

WashU lost at home to Brandeis and it was on 6 days rest. I would consider that a pretty bad loss, especially if you watched the game.  Brandeis didnt even play all that well.

[John Gleich]

Couple issues with your comments.

I think part of the problem is that, unless you really take a look at a team like St. Norbert, it's hard to compare them to other teams that more may be more about in terms of who they've played.  The victories against Oshkosh, Elmhurst, and Chicago would have looked great last year or two years ago... But these three teams are .500 at best this year thus far.  They really don't have an impressive victory.

I hope that the two years ago is in reference to Chicago...they were dreadful last year, starting 0-12 before finishing 6-19.

Or, perhaps, the stars aligned just right and it was the time for teams to lose.  I dunno.  There are so many variables that come into these games on a given night (the least of which is home court advantage).  One has to wonder if Randy Mac really would have been favored in that game with EMU, or Wash U vs. Brandeis.  They're playing ranked opponents, on the other team's floor.

WashU lost at home to Brandeis and it was on 6 days rest. I would consider that a pretty bad loss, especially if you watched the game.  Brandeis didnt even play all that well.

I did mean Chicago two years ago (or farther back).  And I didn't watch Wash U/Brandeis.  I didn't realize it was in St. Louis.

[nwhoops1903]

I'm still pretty high on Whitworth.... their loss to Pomona-Pitzer withstanding, they've beaten everybody but the soon-to-be #1 team in the country.  Their RPI is #17 with an OWP of .553 and an OOWP of .572, Massey #6.  And the Massey ratings are though last Sunday (probably will be updated tomorrow or Tuesday, I'd imagine).  I don't necessarily think Whitworth is a top 10 team... but they could be in the top 15.

Pretty soon, pretty soon.   If we played PP today AT PP, I'd give up 15 points and still cover.

[magicman]

St. Thomas beats Hamline 80-63 to improve to 13-2.

[magicman]

New Top 25 Poll is out:          http://d3hoops.com/top25/

[magicman]

IF EMU and RMC win tomorrow (likely) and the Guilford/VaWes game is not such a blow-out that the loser falls too far (we'll see), the ODAC could have four teams in the top ten.  Has any conference ever had FOUR top ten teams in the history of the d3hoops.com poll?

While I am a CCIW partisan, and often genuflect at the WIAC altar (and acknowledge some amazing seasons recently by the UAA and NESCAC), has any conference ever has a season like what seems to be shaping up for the ODAC?

ODAC #2,#3,#7,and #12. I guess the 15 point loss to Guilford was too much for Va. Wesleyan to overcome.

[Pat Coleman]

I think, too, you're going to have some voters who just won't put four teams from the same conference up that high.

The ODAC will sort itself out a little bit, though not everyone plays home and home, so it may not completely work itself out before the conference tournament.

[magicman]

I think, too, you're going to have some voters who just won't put four teams from the same conference up that high.

The ODAC will sort itself out a little bit, though not everyone plays home and home, so it may not completely work itself out before the conference tournament.

I agree with that. In our poster's poll I had them #2, #3, #5 and #11. I would expect that with 6 more matchups between the 4 teams, before the conference tournament, several of them will probably not end up in the Top 10. My guess is that Guilford and Eastern Mennonite will.