Top 25 talk

[Marty Peretz]

Rank Williams whatever you want, but come tournament time, I don't see them making a run to Salem. I've seen them play and am just not terribly impressed.

[nescac1]

We shall see, I guess.  Ask Midd tonight how impressed they were when Williams shot over 50 percent, on the road, vs. the top FG % defense in the country ... not that Williams is a sure thing to make a deep tourney run, they certainly have some flaws that can be exploited, but who this year is a sure thing?  Seems to be a year sans juggernauts, one of the more wide open years in recent memory, I would think ... 12-15 teams with a legit shot, and I think the Ephs have to be among that group.  Williams certainly had a heck of a week this week and seem to be improving, especially on defense, as the season progresses, which is what you want to see.

Maybe Guilford goes in as the favorite, but there are some teams in their own conference that could give them trouble ... otherwise, everyone else has had their very questionable performances.  Who would you favor vs. Williams out of the Northeast, East, or Atlantic regions (the teams they generally play in the tourney) at this point? 

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Rank Williams whatever you want, but come tournament time, I don't see them making a run to Salem. I've seen them play and am just not terribly impressed.

The northeastern part of the country is wide, but not so deep this year.  I think we'll have a newcomer emerge (assuming they send William Patterson south).

[Titan Q]

Live video of Illinois Wesleyan @ Carthage.  Open the following URL in QuickTime...

rtsp://wolfgang.carthage.edu:554/carthagelivestream2.sdp
 

 

[Mr. Ypsi]

Possible upset alert: fresh off beating #1 UWSP, UWW is trailing UW-Stout, 46-36, at the half!

[Hugenerd]

Possible upset alert: fresh off beating #1 UWSP, UWW is trailing UW-Stout, 46-36, at the half!

Stout now up 20 with 7 minutes to play.

Carthage also up 20+ 15 minutes into the game vs. IWU.

[Hugenerd]

Rank Williams whatever you want, but come tournament time, I don't see them making a run to Salem. I've seen them play and am just not terribly impressed.

Really?  WashU has been the least impressive "top" team I have seen recently.  I watched them play vs. Brandeis, NYU, and Case Western, and came away disappointed.  They nearly lost all those games (and obviously lost to Brandeis). I thought they would be the team to beat this year, but they really are not.  They started out beating some "good" teams early in the season, but where are those teams now?  They have not beat a team that is currently ranked in the top 20 (they lost to #20 Brandeis).  Their best win is over #21 IWU, but they will drop (they are getting drubbed by Carthage tonight, they are down 44-24 at the half).  So given that WashU has struggled with mediocre teams and is not playing well recently, I think they are the most-overated team right now.  If they get sent out west, I dont think they make Salem either.  They may make it out of the midwest, because that region is way down and they have already shown they can beat the CCIW schools. 

Do not discount the northeast, I think a lot of people will be surprised come tourney time, there are a lot of good teams up there.  I think the South, West and Northeast are the three top regions this year.

[frodotwo]

Stout travels to Whitewater and pounds out a 95-77 victory. Another wow game 

[ScotsFan]

Seems like Guilford will be unanimous number one in the next poll, and deservedly so ... but I think Williams has made a credible case for number two, after a signature road win over Midd: 19-1 from a power conference, no bad losses, leading or close to leading the nation in FG percentage, 3 pt. FG percentage, and scoring differential, with three of the top offensive guys, statistically, in the country in Wang, Schultz, and Whittington.   They just finished a 5-0 road trip, including three conference games, with 4/5 wins by double digits.  With each of the WIAC teams and Wash U with two losses, and Wash U looking not-terribly-impressive in most of the their recent wins, I'd say the Ephs have made their case for number two ... I would think a top five of Guildford, Williams, Whitewater, Stevens Point, Wash U would be about right ...

I'm sorry, but I'm still not convinced that Middlebury isn't still a bit overrated which would cause me to be hesitant about proclaiming a win over them as a signature win.

We had this debate wrt Midd being overrated a few weeks ago and since then, they have had a terrible loss to Colby-Sawyer kind of validate my opinion.  Sure, the Panthers have put together a modest win streak, but the only team over .500 they've beaten during their win streak was Skidmore.  And then, Midd finally plays a team with a pulse and they promptly lose by 15 points on their home floor?

I'm not trying to take anything away from Williams' win, but I just have a hard time looking at a win over what I consider to be an overrated team as a signature win...

[nescac1]

That's fine.  As hugenerd says, the midwest and west folks on here often tend to discount the records of the top New England teams (notwithstanding two New England titlists and two more New England finalists in the last seven years), until they actually have to play them, that is ...

Midd is a very strong team.  Everyone is entitled to one off day, and Midd's came against CSC ... if any team that lost to a mediocre team was worthless, then there would only be 2-3 teams that you could beat and have that victory considered a "signature win."  I'd say anytime you convincingly beat a top 20 team (which Midd undoubtedly is) on the road, or top 10 team at home, that in my mind is a signature win.  Hard to do much better.  


Again, I'm not saying Williams has looked like a dominant team at the level of the recent juggernauts that have won titles from 2003 on, or anything ... I'm just saying that, outside of MAYBE Guilford, no one else in the top ten has, either.  I don't think Williams is a 50-50 bet to make the Final Four ... but who is right now?

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	625	UW-Stevens Point	18-2	LOST to #5 UW-Whitewater, 58-61; def. UW-Superior, 74-43
#2	598	Guilford	18-1	def. Roanoke, 86-70; def. #9 Randolph-Macon, 82-73
#3	547	Washington U.	16-2	def. Rochester, 82-78; def. #32 Emory, 65-56
#4	532	Williams	19-1	def. Hamilton, 96-61; def. #8 Middlebury, 79-64
#5	516	UW-Whitewater	16-3	def. #1 UW-Stevens Point, 61-58; LOST to UW-Stout, 77-95
#6	473	St. Thomas	17-2	def. Augsburg, 77-66; def. Macalester, 86-51
#7	441	Virginia Wesleyan	17-2	def. Lynchburg, 88-78; 01/30 vs. Emory and Henry (postponed)
#8	432	Middlebury	17-2	def. Southern Vermont, 94-68; LOST to #4 Williams, 64-79
#9	425	Randolph-Macon	15-4	LOST to Washington and Lee, 57-65; LOST to #2 Guilford, 73-82
#10	394	Anderson	17-2	LOST at Defiance, 75-91
#11	353	Eastern Mennonite	15-3	def. Southern Va., 89-68; LOST at Hampden-Sydney, 68-80
#12	346	St. Norbert	16-1	def. Carroll, 76-58; def. Beloit, 77-69 OT
#13	311	Chapman	18-2	def. S'western (Ariz.), 79-66
#14	303	MIT	18-2	def. Coast Guard, 78-58; def. T#33 Worcester Polytech, 74-66
#15	275	Whitworth	17-2	def. Willamette, 101-83; def. Lewis and Clark, 85-63
#16	214	William Paterson	20-1	def. New Jersey City, 58-39; def. Rowan, 85-61
#17	208	Franklin and Marshall	16-3	def. Johns Hopkins, 53-50; def. Swarthmore, 77-47
#18	183	Amherst	13-5	def. Vassar, 88-55; LOST at Bowdoin, 68-69; LOST at Colby, 68-72
#19	150	Texas-Dallas	16-3	def. Louisiana College, 94-66; def. #22 Mississippi College, 80-66
#20	141	Brandeis	14-3	def. Case Western Reserve, 70-52; def. Carnegie Mellon, 72-59
#21	132	Illinois Wesleyan	15-4	def. Augustana, 71-64; LOST at #27 Carthage, 55-80
#22	120	Mississippi College	15-3	def. University of the Ozarks, 74-70; LOST at #19 Texas-Dallas, 66-80
#23	114	St. Mary's (Md.)	16-3	def. Marymount, 84-61; def. Stevenson, 78-54
#24	85	Wooster	15-4	def. Hiram, 67-43; def. Denison, 97-73
#25	82	Medaille	19-1	def. Hilbert, 89-62; def. Franciscan (Ohio), 96-72

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	38	Cabrini	16-2	def. Philadelphia Bible, 73-53; def. Eastern, 80-71; LOST at Centenary, 80-81
#27	25	Carthage	15-4	def. North Park, 76-61; def. #21 Illinois Wesleyan, 80-55
#28	16	Lycoming	16-3	def. Penn College, 113-89; LOST to T#35 Albright, 80-84
#29	13	Maryville (Tenn.)	16-4	LOST at Milligan, 74-76; LOST at Piedmont, 78-80 OT
#30	11	Wheaton (Ill.)	13-6	def. Millikin, 50-45; LOST at North Central (Ill.), 58-60
#31	9	Claremont-Mudd-Scripps	14-4	LOST at Pomona-Pitzer, 36-47; def. Cal Lutheran, 70-60
#32	6	Emory	13-5	def. Chicago, 71-44; LOST to #3 Washington U., 56-65
T#33	2	St. John Fisher	16-4	def. Nazareth, 80-75; LOST to Stevens, 58-66
T#33	2	Worcester Polytech	14-5	LOST at Babson, 58-72; LOST to #14 MIT, 66-74
T#35	1	Albright	16-2	def. #28 Lycoming, 84-80
T#35	1	Brockport State	13-5	def. Buffalo State, 74-68; LOST to Cortland State, 68-76; def. Oswego State, 76-61
T#35	1	DeSales	14-5	def. Muhlenberg, 67-59; LOST at Eastern, 56-61

[Hugenerd]

Thats crazy, every ORV except Carthage lost.

[nescac1]

(and Albright) ... but still crazy.  It's looks like 2-3 teams will drop from the top 25; could Colby make the rare (this late in the season) leap from not having a single vote to a Top 25 team?  In light of their record, the likelihood of stealing many of Amherst's votes, and the struggles of the ORV teams (only Carthage seems likely to crack the top 25), it seems very possible ...

Speaking of Carthage, I am guessing CCIW folks expect them to be a big-time contender next year, considering that their all-American will be a senior, and two of their other big-time players are both frosh big men, who generally make a big leap forward  as sophomores? 

[Mugsy]

(Speaking of Carthage, I am guessing CCIW folks expect them to be a big-time contender next year, considering that their all-American will be a senior, and two of their other big-time players are both frosh big men, who generally make a big leap forward  as sophomores? 

At this point Carthage is in the drivers seat to win the CCIW this year.  They are currently 7-1 in conference after beating IWU handily last night.

[Greek Tragedy]

So, what holds more weight for the voters involving Whitewater?

They came from 15 down at halftime to top #1 ranked Stevens Point on the road or they were down by 28 at one point in the 2nd half against a Stout team that was 9-9 going into the game and just 4-6 in conference...and that was in Whitewater.