Top 25 talk

[Gregory Sager]

I know I will sound like an inveterate homer

That's better than sounding like an invertebrate homer. As we all know from your classic battles with OxyBob, you certainly have a spine!

[Greek Tragedy]

So, with so many teams dropping out this week, it begs the question:  what is the record for most amount of teams dropping out in one week?  I might guess it could happen during the last poll of the year after the tournament is done.  So maybe we should qualify it as regular season. 

[magicman]

#26 Plattsburgh State travels to St. Lawrence and beats the Saints 62-58 to move to 4-1 on the year.

[hopefan]

I'm going to put the question out there  ....   and it's very scarey as I hate to ruffle feathers...   but... should TQ's IWU team be on the over rated list....  they've run up a 6-0 record against a group of opponents that could be regarded in the midwest as mediocre at best, not yet playing any of the higher profile Wisconsin schools, or the DePauws, Hopes, Calvins, Wash U's...  and each of their wins have either been close, or of the 10-15 point margin... hardly runaways....  Johnson and Sexauer both looked good at Webster, but hardly at the All American Level that TQ has preached....  Great depth, great intensity, well coached, yes....  but top 5 in the nation, right now, I'm not so sure...... I'd say more at the 7-15 level...  remember, this team couldn't match Webster's quickness , couldn't defend an athletic 2/3 man when he posted, couldn't defend a thin frosh 6'5" pivot man who could not be described as athletic or a leaper....      and each time I hear that someone was playing sick or the officiating was lopsided, I lose a tad more respect for the objectivity of whomever writes it.....

[Hugenerd]

Brandeis needed some late game heroics, and a last second layup in OT, to beat Clark (out of the NEWMAC) at home.  Almost a huge night for the NEWMAC, as Springfield beat previously unbeaten Keene St. on the road. MIT and WPI also had blowout wins.  MIT is still without injured All-American Noel Hollingsworth, who is out with an ankle injury (but will likely return at some point this month).

[Pat Coleman]

I'm going to put the question out there  ....   and it's very scarey as I hate to ruffle feathers...   but... should TQ's IWU team be on the over rated list....  they've run up a 6-0 record against a group of opponents that could be regarded in the midwest as mediocre at best, not yet playing any of the higher profile Wisconsin schools, or the DePauws, Hopes, Calvins, Wash U's...  and each of their wins have either been close, or of the 10-15 point margin... hardly runaways....  Johnson and Sexauer both looked good at Webster, but hardly at the All American Level that TQ has preached....  Great depth, great intensity, well coached, yes....  but top 5 in the nation, right now, I'm not so sure...... I'd say more at the 7-15 level...  remember, this team couldn't match Webster's quickness , couldn't defend an athletic 2/3 man when he posted, couldn't defend a thin frosh 6'5" pivot man who could not be described as athletic or a leaper....      and each time I hear that someone was playing sick or the officiating was lopsided, I lose a tad more respect for the objectivity of whomever writes it.....

That's certainly possible based on what they've done so far. When I was going through my ballot, I didn't have a viable alternative, and without Jared Jenkins there's even reason to doubt UW-Stevens Point at No. 1.

Who would be a better No. 2?

[hopefan]

Unfortunately, with me not doing my fancy excel sheets this year, I'm not in much of a position to answer that one Pat...  Some of the CCIW people certainly are on the Augustana band wagon, but I haven't even seen them in order to give a legitimate comparison....  without the time to review scores , I base my comments strictly on seeing IWU compete against a SLIAC team, and then checking their other scores......  I just don't think they're playing at a level they expected to just yet....

[Dark Knight]

Unfortunately, with me not doing my fancy excel sheets this year, I'm not in much of a position to answer that one Pat...  Some of the CCIW people certainly are on the Augustana band wagon, but I haven't even seen them in order to give a legitimate comparison....  without the time to review scores , I base my comments strictly on seeing IWU compete against a SLIAC team, and then checking their other scores......  I just don't think they're playing at a level they expected to just yet....

You can't expect a lot from the polls or ratings this early in the season. The polls are still based in good part on reputation and last year's results. Then again, many teams are still shaking off the rust.

Massey says
1. Stevens Point
2. Whitworth
3. St Thomas
4. Lewis and Clark
5. Wabash

IL Wesleyan is #15 in terms of power, #9 corrected for won/lost record.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

There were several teams on my ballot I struggled with because I kept raising them higher due to teams ahead of them having disappointing starts... and I didn't think they deserve to be there, but it is hard to find teams this early... with so many loses... to put in certain places.

An example, I can't remember right now where I put Virginia Wesleyan on my ballot... but I struggled for a long time on the reasons I was moving them up. In my opinion, they really haven't beaten anyone and almost lost to a Salisbury team that while improved... isn't Top 25 or 50 material.

The same arguement could be made for IWU... since their wins haven't been impressive against tough teams.

BUT it is early... and this poll will certainly go through plenty of upheavel in the coming weeks as teams sort themselves out. I would say that was the most number of losses I had seen in my Top 25 poll in the first few weeks since I started polling. So, we are bound to see teams like Wabash jump in and then hope they don't fall out if they turn out to be overrated. We are also going to see teams like maybe Amherst who may be better then the pollsters think... but haven't had the opportunity to sway voters to push them higher.

[Ethelred the Unready]

Unfortunately, with me not doing my fancy excel sheets this year, I'm not in much of a position to answer that one Pat...  Some of the CCIW people certainly are on the Augustana band wagon, but I haven't even seen them in order to give a legitimate comparison....  without the time to review scores , I base my comments strictly on seeing IWU compete against a SLIAC team, and then checking their other scores......  I just don't think they're playing at a level they expected to just yet....

You can't expect a lot from the polls or ratings this early in the season. The polls are still based in good part on reputation and last year's results. Then again, many teams are still shaking off the rust.

You can't shake off Rust.  You can only hope to contain them.....

[Titan Q]

I'm going to put the question out there  ....   and it's very scarey as I hate to ruffle feathers...   but... should TQ's IWU team be on the over rated list....  they've run up a 6-0 record against a group of opponents that could be regarded in the midwest as mediocre at best, not yet playing any of the higher profile Wisconsin schools, or the DePauws, Hopes, Calvins, Wash U's...  and each of their wins have either been close, or of the 10-15 point margin... hardly runaways....  Johnson and Sexauer both looked good at Webster, but hardly at the All American Level that TQ has preached....  Great depth, great intensity, well coached, yes....  but top 5 in the nation, right now, I'm not so sure...... I'd say more at the 7-15 level...  remember, this team couldn't match Webster's quickness , couldn't defend an athletic 2/3 man when he posted, couldn't defend a thin frosh 6'5" pivot man who could not be described as athletic or a leaper....      and each time I hear that someone was playing sick or the officiating was lopsided, I lose a tad more respect for the objectivity of whomever writes it.....

Until starting forwards Jordan Zimmer (6-5 SF) and John Koschnitzky (6-6 PF) return, I don't think Illinois Wesleyan is a "Top 5 team", at least in terms of how I think of a "Top 5 team."  More maybe in the #10 range until the forwards comes back?

IWU (6-0) is working with a new rotation in the early going...they are playing very well for stretches for each game, but also poorly for stretches.  Zimmer is the bigger of the two injuries, in my opinion, as it totally changes the way teams can guard the Titans.  He is a 6-5 wing player that is an excellent 3-point shooter, and a guy the defense can't leave.  Currently, teams can really collapse hard on 6-7 center Doug Sexauer...or at least much more so than when Zimmer is on the floor (along with Sean Johnson, IWU's other 3-point shooter).

Regarding Sean Johnson, I don't understand where you're coming from on that one, hopefan.  His last 3 games...

vs Monmouth: 35 pts, 6 reb (10-14 FG, 5-7 3-point)
vs Dominican: 34 pts, 5 reb, 3 assists
vs Webster: 22 pts (8-8 FG)

On the season he is averaging 20.7 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 2.5 apg.  He has made 18 of 42 (.429) 3-point attempts.

As far as "preaching", I believe the only thing I have posted here about Sean Johnson as an All-American candidate is (from CCIW board):

I think IWU's Sean Johnson is going to make a strong case at one of the All-American guard spots at the end of the season.  Here is how his 2009-10 offensive numbers stack up vs the preseason team guards...

Sean Johnson (Illinois Wesleyan) - 17.0 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 3.1 apg, 75-181 3-pt (.414), 103-127 FT (.811) 1.25 A:TO

1st Team
Steve Djurickovic (Carthage) - 24.4 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 7.3 rpg, 41-100 3-pt (.410), 228-260 FT (.877), 2.9 A:TO
Ian Franks (Wooster) - 17.9 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 3.3 apg, 38-93 3-pt (.409), 143-185 FT (.773), 1.4 A:TO

2nd Team
James Wang (Williams) - 17.3 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 4.4 apg, 69-136 3-pt (.507), 105-122 (.861) FT, 1.8 A:TO
Jeffrey Robinson (WPI) - 19.0 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 2.4 apg, 54-133 3-pt (.406), 109-130 FT (.838), 0.80 A:TO

3rd Team
Scott Gillespie (Ripon) - 22.1 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 7.3 ppg, 5-15 3-pt (.333), 114-158 FT (.722), 2.0 A:TO
Jared Jenkins (UW-Stevens Point) - 11.4 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 2.2 apg, 24-62 3-pt (.387), 77-104 (.740), 1.37 A:TO

4th Team
Alex Franz (St. Mary's) - 13.7 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 5.9 apg, 47-102 3-pt (.333), 66-99 FT (.667)
Tony Mane (UW-LaCrosse) - 22.3 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 1.9 apg, 64-160 3-pt (.400), 75-82 FT (.915), 1.1 A:TO

Honorable Mention
Peter Bunn (Hope) - 16.0 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 2.2 apg, 36-69 3-pt (.522), 127-145 FT (.876), 1.1 A:TO
Tyler White (Wilmington) - 17.2 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 1.2 apg, 13-53 3-pt (.245), 116-181 FT (.641), 0.4 A:TO


I think Johnson is right there relative to some of these guys.  I believe it's fair to say that in the NCAA tournament last year, he was as good as any guard in Division III...

vs Central - 24 pts
vs Wash U - 24 pts
vs Carthage - 26 pts, 12 reb
vs UW-Stevens Point - 32 pts

Is that really "preaching"?  Is it not acceptable to post an opinion, and support it with some facts?

[hopefan]

Now TQ, I didn't say what you wrote or how you wrote it was unacceptable, only that the level of play I saw on Monday was not at an All American level....    It was a point supporting my premise that IWU was not necessarily a top 5 team... now..   

[John Gleich]

I'm going to put the question out there  ....   and it's very scarey as I hate to ruffle feathers...   but... should TQ's IWU team be on the over rated list....  they've run up a 6-0 record against a group of opponents that could be regarded in the midwest as mediocre at best, not yet playing any of the higher profile Wisconsin schools, or the DePauws, Hopes, Calvins, Wash U's...  and each of their wins have either been close, or of the 10-15 point margin... hardly runaways....  Johnson and Sexauer both looked good at Webster, but hardly at the All American Level that TQ has preached....  Great depth, great intensity, well coached, yes....  but top 5 in the nation, right now, I'm not so sure...... I'd say more at the 7-15 level...  remember, this team couldn't match Webster's quickness , couldn't defend an athletic 2/3 man when he posted, couldn't defend a thin frosh 6'5" pivot man who could not be described as athletic or a leaper....      and each time I hear that someone was playing sick or the officiating was lopsided, I lose a tad more respect for the objectivity of whomever writes it.....

That's certainly possible based on what they've done so far. When I was going through my ballot, I didn't have a viable alternative, and without Jared Jenkins there's even reason to doubt UW-Stevens Point at No. 1.

Who would be a better No. 2?

Though there's been no definitive word from Coach Semling (or from Jared himself, that I've heard at least), Jenkins' name is still on the roster at Point.

And though UWSP hasn't played any top knotch competition yet, they've summarily dismissed their opponents convincingly thus far.  Only St. Norbert and Whitworth have, of the top 10 teams in the lastest poll, not had a game come down to 4 points or less.

I think for Point this year, with a down league, they may find themselves in a favorable position when the NCAA tournament comes around, especially with at least 4 of the perceived contenders coming from more balanced leagues (CCIW and ODAC) where they're likely to take several knocks.  Perhaps that will actually hurt them, as they might not be tested as much early, but this is a veteran team who has battled in the trenches in the past.  And besides... a down year in the WIAC is still a far better league, from top to bottom, than 75% of the conferences in the country.

[wooscotsfan]

Final:  #4 Wooster 74  Hiram 60

Wooster was led tonight by Ian Franks with 25 points on 10 of 17 shooting from the floor.  Wooster shot 51% as a team tonight compared to only 31% for Hiram.

[John Gleich]

Stout led #1 Stevens Point 27-17 midway through the first half but Point cut the lead to 2 at 39-37 at the half.  After a 3 pointer from Stout to start the half, Point went on a 10-0 run and never trailed the rest f the game.  SP turned up the D in the second half and outscored Stout 42-29 for a 79-68 win on the road.