Top 25 talk

[John Gleich]

Stevens Point slips 1 place to #9 in the poll despite the fact that the team right ahead of them lost and SP beat two conference opponents by 29 and 31 points this past week.

Tonight they won their 6th straight game by 29 or more points as they beat Macalester 82-51.

Concerning the poll...

Nice to see Whitworth getting some votes... I just don't know how good they are compared to teams like St. Thomas, River Falls, or Stevens Point because I don't think they've played competition as tough. 

Massey has Whitworth at #1 but playing just the 22nd toughest schedule.  On the other hand, St. Thomas is #2, playing the #2 schedule and Stevens Point is #3, playing the #3 schedule.  And though the schedule remains tough for UST and UWSP (#3 and #2 projected schedules, respectively), Whitworth's actually gets easier (30th going forward).  I think there's a distinct possibility that they may be undefeated come tournament time.  I just don't see any proof that they're any better than St. Thomas... who has played a tough schedule and passed the tests.

And I also think that River Falls is too low.

I have actually seen BOTH UWSP and Whitworth this season... at the same tournament... and Whitworth is a better team than UWSP in my opinion. Whitworth is deeper with at least four scoring threats and two shut-down defensive players in the Gebber brothers.

The fact Whitworth had Mike Taylor, a legitamate player on a Univ. of Montana player, transfer in has completely changed their team. He can light it up for 30 one night or just find other guys all night long for points for them. Loofburrow is dangerous as a swing man. Can post up and score from inside and can step outside and drain threes just as easily. David Riley is always a threat for the same reason Loofburrow is, expect that Riley can do more damage from inside the arc. And you have Felix Freidt who can contribute inside as well.

Riley had an off tournament in Vegas and every single player mentioned stepped up at different times - almost like Riley was a role player and not their #1 scoring option.

UWSP would be a much better team and higher in my poll if Jenkins was returning. I know he is still on the roster, but he hasn't played and it doesn't look like he will play (due to NFL aspirations). Hopefully we can find out more when we talk to Coach Sempling on Sunday's Hoopsville (tentative, still have to reach out).

UWSP certainly has plenty of talent, but they aren't as deep. That is going to hurt them. And referencing six straight 29+ point wins isn't telling the whole truth. You comment on Whitworth's weak finish in conference (which I would also disagree with - though certainly not as challenging as the WIAC), but those six wins are against weak squads as well.

So while I appreciate your allegiance to UWSP, the fact of the matter is if those two teams faced off (wish it happened in Vegas), my money would be on Whitworth by about 10.

I'm actually not comparing Whitworth and Stevens Point... SP has two losses, and they were legit... they got beat (albeit on the road) by St. Thomas and River Falls in close games... but they lost.  I think they've taken strides forward since then and I relish the opportunity to get at least one more shot at River Falls (I'm actually planning on making the trek up to SP on Feb 12th for the rematch), but I think SP belongs somewhere in the 5-8 range right now. 

I'm comparing Whitworth with St. Thomas.  I don't see any genuine tests that Whitworth has had this season, compared to UST. 

Last year, Whitworth had some marquee wins... but this year, they have Carthage... and though Carthage just beat IWU, they're not living up to the hype from the preseason.  I know that the potential is there... but it just hasn't shown itself yet, and I think Carthage is going to struggle to even make the tournament, let alone contend for the national championship.  Of course, lots can change... they can catch fire... but they'll have to catch an unbelievable fire... they're 5-4 in-region right now and still have to play Augie twice, go to IWU, play Wheaton again... and everybody else in the CCIW.

As for UW-River Falls... they are rising in the polls... but there are still a lot of questions about a team that even the coaches in the league voted to finish 7th (I believe). If no expected them to be that good... is it a case of playing beyond their abilities and eventually they will come back to earth? Or is it a case of people not appreciating what they really had.

The SID's voted RF #8, not the coaches.  And I have no idea what they were thinking... I said as much back in September when I said that RF could be a top 25 team on this board.  Nobody knew the impact that adding Shane Manor would have on last year's team... but it was evident that even last year's team caught some bad breaks.  They played St. Thomas to a 1 point game and BEAT Whitewater.  And they were adding a player who had averaged 10+ points in his first two years at Superior and had an effective redshirt year while he was sitting out due to the transfer.  And they have about as veteran a team as anyone in the WIAC this season, along with Point and maybe Stout.

I'm not really sold on Middlebury at #5 and Williams at #6.  I'd move them down and move the next 6 or so teams up instead.

[Mr. Ypsi]

PS, wanna make your opinions count?  I've gotten only 9 ballots in the PP so far!

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Three ranked teams go down already tonight.

[KnightSlappy]

Three ranked teams go down already tonight.

Make that four.

[David Collinge]

For those keeping score at home, who perchance have not committed the Top 25 to memory, and don't want to navigate away from this page to the scoreboard, here's the four:

Ripon 70, #15 St. Norbert 60
Keene St. 81, #16 Western Conn. 76
McDaniel 61, #18 Franklin & Marshall 53
Utica 85, #20 Ithaca 81

#13 Brandeis survives Bates, 53-50.  (I love this matchup, it's gotta be the favorite rivalry of the Damon Runyan character Brandy Bottle Bates.) 
#25 NYU slips past Hunter, 85-59.

[John Gleich]

PS, wanna make your opinions count?  I've gotten only 9 ballots in the PP so far!

Are you trying to say that my prognostications count for nothing...?!

[Mr. Ypsi]

PS, wanna make your opinions count?  I've gotten only 9 ballots in the PP so far!

Are you trying to say that my prognostications count for nothing...?!

Of course not - but by your submitting a ballot they contributed to the second most prestigious rankings on these boards!   (And your ballot did single-handedly change several teams' placements!)

[magicman]

PS, wanna make your opinions count?  I've gotten only 9 ballots in the PP so far!

Are you trying to say that my prognostications count for nothing...?!

Of course not - but by your submitting a ballot they contributed to the second most prestigious rankings on these boards!   (And your ballot did single-handedly change several teams' placements!)

I think that 's probably true for just about all 11 of us!

[Mr. Ypsi]

PS, wanna make your opinions count?  I've gotten only 9 ballots in the PP so far!

Are you trying to say that my prognostications count for nothing...?!

Of course not - but by your submitting a ballot they contributed to the second most prestigious rankings on these boards!   (And your ballot did single-handedly change several teams' placements!)

I think that 's probably true for just about all 11 of us!

Quite possibly true, but since his was the final ballot I tallied, I noticed it more.

[WcsuAlum]

Westconn needs to get it together fast. Got outrebounded by 30 and still managed to stay in the game and had 3 chances to tie within the last minute. Showed flashes of how good they could be, made costly mistakes down the stretch and couldn't get the big rebounds when it counted.

[Pat Coleman]

Is Campbell back?

[AllStar17]

Is Campbell back?

Yes, I he is back.  He returned last Saturday (1/8) in a 109-77 win over Plymouth State.  Last night was his second game back. 

Glad to see he is feeling better.

[nwhoops1903]

I'm actually not comparing Whitworth and Stevens Point... SP has two losses, and they were legit... they got beat (albeit on the road) by St. Thomas and River Falls in close games... but they lost.  I think they've taken strides forward since then and I relish the opportunity to get at least one more shot at River Falls (I'm actually planning on making the trek up to SP on Feb 12th for the rematch), but I think SP belongs somewhere in the 5-8 range right now. 

I'm comparing Whitworth with St. Thomas.  I don't see any genuine tests that Whitworth has had this season, compared to UST. 

On November 19, St Thomas beat PLU by 3,  6 weeks later Whitworth beat PLU 93-58 and was up 70-35 at one point.  Granted St. Thomas beat UPS by 20 and WW beat Loggers by only 7.  In the common opponent category WW gets the slight nod.  WW victories over Carthage and Ripon are quality wins.  Both of Tommies quality wins are over the 2 top WIAC teams.  No question these 2 teams are close.

These 2 teams could be a final four matchup,  but I still think Point will be the team to beat from that section of West region when March comes.

[John Gleich]

I'm actually not comparing Whitworth and Stevens Point... SP has two losses, and they were legit... they got beat (albeit on the road) by St. Thomas and River Falls in close games... but they lost.  I think they've taken strides forward since then and I relish the opportunity to get at least one more shot at River Falls (I'm actually planning on making the trek up to SP on Feb 12th for the rematch), but I think SP belongs somewhere in the 5-8 range right now. 

I'm comparing Whitworth with St. Thomas.  I don't see any genuine tests that Whitworth has had this season, compared to UST. 

On November 19, St Thomas beat PLU by 3,  6 weeks later Whitworth beat PLU 93-58 and was up 70-35 at one point.  Granted St. Thomas beat UPS by 20 and WW beat Loggers by only 7.  In the common opponent category WW gets the slight nod.  WW victories over Carthage and Ripon are quality wins.  Both of Tommies quality wins are over the 2 top WIAC teams.  No question these 2 teams are close.

These 2 teams could be a final four matchup,  but I still think Point will be the team to beat from that section of West region when March comes.

I can't really argue with what Whitworth has done... they've won their games and that's all you can ask of them.  I'm just questioning the quality of the wins versus Whitworth, in terms of teams like Point and River Falls... and I don't necessarily think there's a huge disparity across the entire schedule, but there is, at least according to Massey, a compelling case for St. Thomas having played a very tough schedule, and a compelling case for Whitworth having played a tough schedule... just maybe not as tough.

Perhaps that difference (very tough vs. tough) isn't significant... but UST just got the nod by virtue of their pair of victories over the WIAC front runners.

[wooscotsfan]

Final:  #1 Wooster 82  Oberlin 55    

Wooster emptied their bench in this game.  Nathan Balch shot 9 of 12 with 5 three pointers to lead Wooster with 23 points.  Ian Franks added 11 points.

Wooster is now 15-0 which is their best start to a season ever in the history of the program.