Top 25 talk

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John Gleich

Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 27, 2011, 04:31:03 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on February 27, 2011, 04:21:34 PM
Quote from: nescac1 on February 27, 2011, 02:25:26 PM
I think it should go Midd-Williams-Whitworth, but we'll have to see.  At full strength, I believe Midd and Williams are very, very even teams (I note that Williams was without a key player today, Nate Robertson, who is second on the team in minutes and assists and is one of two primary ball-handlers, as well as their top perimeter defender).  Midd really played tremendously this weekend and deserves the top spot after beating two top-ten teams, including number one, back-to-back on the road.

I really hope Midd and Williams are placed in different quarters of the bracket, the way the NCAA did with Amherst and Williams back in 2004 (with both ultimately making the Final Four). 

I wonder if Stevens Point will pick up some more #1 votes too...  They're the defending national champ, of course, and have won 12 straight and 19/20. 
I think that Pat Coleman will sell you a banner ad to plug your team for #1 amongst the voters.   ;)

Tempting... but I'd rather have the #1 nod in about 3 weeks or so...    ;D

And I didn't necessarily say that I thought they should be number one (...necessarily...), just wondered if they would get more votes.
UWSP Men's Basketball

National Champions: 2015, 2010, 2005, 2004

NCAA appearances: 2018, '15, '14, '13, '12, '11, '10, '09, '08, '07, '05, '04, '03, '00, 1997

WIAC/WSUC Champs: 2015, '14, '13, '11, '09, '07, '05, '03, '02, '01, '00, 1993, '92, '87, '86, '85, '84, '83, '82, '69, '61, '57, '48, '42, '37, '36, '35, '33, '18

Twitter: @JohnGleich

Ralph Turner

Quote from: PointSpecial on February 27, 2011, 04:40:24 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 27, 2011, 04:31:03 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on February 27, 2011, 04:21:34 PM
Quote from: nescac1 on February 27, 2011, 02:25:26 PM
I think it should go Midd-Williams-Whitworth, but we'll have to see.  At full strength, I believe Midd and Williams are very, very even teams (I note that Williams was without a key player today, Nate Robertson, who is second on the team in minutes and assists and is one of two primary ball-handlers, as well as their top perimeter defender).  Midd really played tremendously this weekend and deserves the top spot after beating two top-ten teams, including number one, back-to-back on the road.

I really hope Midd and Williams are placed in different quarters of the bracket, the way the NCAA did with Amherst and Williams back in 2004 (with both ultimately making the Final Four). 

I wonder if Stevens Point will pick up some more #1 votes too...  They're the defending national champ, of course, and have won 12 straight and 19/20. 
I think that Pat Coleman will sell you a banner ad to plug your team for #1 amongst the voters.   ;)

Tempting... but I'd rather have the #1 nod in about 3 weeks or so...    ;D

And I didn't necessarily say that I thought they should be number one (...necessarily...), just wondered if they would get more votes.
Just looking for more revenue for the website.

I am sure that Pat will take any thing that he can get.   ;)

nescac1

#6482
Whitworth: 0 wins over top 25 teams, one loss vs. non-top 25
Williams: 2-2, including one loss, on the road, in OT, without its best player, 0 losses to teams outside the top 25
Middlebury: 3-1, 0 losses to teams outside the top 25

I think Midd is a clear number one, but I also don't think Williams should be seeded below Whitworth (not that it matters since they will be on opposite halves of the bracket).  In addition to those four brutal rivalry games, Williams beat another NCAA team (Elms), a solid Bowdoin squad twice, a tough Trinity team twice, and solid Salem State and RPI teams, both of whom made their conference finals.  If you look at Williams' top 10 toughest games vs. Whitworth's, it's not even close. 

MIdd's non-conference schedule was pretty weak, but what they did over the last weekend was VERY impressive, and going 3-1 vs. Amherst and Williams, with three of those four away from home, is no mean feat. 

I really can't imagine that Midd or Williams would have had much trouble with anyone on Whitworth's schedule, including the team Whitworth lost to.  

Stevens Point, that is a different story.  They have been fairly dominant in the best conference in D-3, and are, after all, the defending champs.  Going into the tourney, I'd say they are the odds-on favorite to win the title, especially if Tillema can return at some point.  I could see an argument for putting them number one before I'd put Whitworth, who hasn't beaten a single team even receiving VOTES in the last top 25 poll.  

Darryl Nester

How They Fared (Complete)

The final report, in case you missed a score this weekend ...

The distribution of the SOS scores in this list (not ALL SOS scores):
  • Mean = 0.510, SD = 0.0337
  • min = 0.448, Q1 = 0.4825, Med = 0.506, Q3 = 0.5370, max = 0.583

Top 25

Rank   Pts   TeamW-L   SOS     Results
#1617Williams25-20.583def. Trinity (Conn.), 79-69; LOST to #3 Middlebury, 54-63
#2576Whitworth26-10.505def. Pacific Lutheran, 74-63; def. Whitman, 74-50
#3571Middlebury25-10.539def. #7 Amherst, 67-61; def. #1 Williams, 63-54
#4546UW-Stevens Point24-30.554def. UW-Superior, 84-52; def. #22 UW-River Falls, 79-56
#5540Wooster26-20.507def. Allegheny, 62-57; def. Ohio Wesleyan, 70-62;
def. #33 Wittenberg, 82-68
#6490Augustana24-30.499LOST at Illinois Wesleyan, 68-70; def. Wheaton (Ill.), 73-58;
def. Illinois Wesleyan, 76-52
#7475Amherst22-30.453LOST at #3 Middlebury, 61-67
#8426Randolph-Macon24-40.543def. Roanoke, 63-56; def. #11 Eastern Mennonite, 90-79;
def. Randolph, 68-43
#9413St. Thomas24-30.538def. Hamline, 78-70; def. Gustavus Adolphus, 83-77
#10403Virginia Wesleyan23-40.506def. Washington and Lee, 98-78; LOST to Randolph, 76-80
#11381Eastern Mennonite22-50.483def. Hampden-Sydney, 76-75; LOST at #8 Randolph-Macon, 79-90
#12303WPI22-50.535def. Coast Guard, 62-51; LOST to MIT, 52-63
#13285Marietta25-30.474def. Wilmington, 84-73; def. Heidelberg, 70-55;
def. John Carroll, 88-85
#14240Rochester20-50.490LOST at #38 Emory, 72-83
#15226Chapman24-30.532def. La Sierra, 61-56; def. University of Dallas, 73-43;
def. UC Santa Cruz, 91-77
#16225Wabash20-60.505def. Kenyon, 72-61; LOST at #33 Wittenberg, 63-65
#17224Western Connecticut21-50.531LOST to Eastern Connecticut, 70-94
#18214St. Mary's (Md.)22-50.488def. Mary Washington, 79-57; def. Wesley, 97-65
#19134Franklin and Marshall22-50.473def. Haverford, 71-62; def. Dickinson, 65-55
#20122St. Norbert20-50.470def. Ripon, 75-52; def. Grinnell, 89-67
#21115Concordia (Wis.)23-40.524def. Wisconsin Lutheran, 90-58; LOST to Edgewood, 89-95
#2296UW-River Falls20-70.575def. UW-Platteville, 69-60; LOST at #4 UW-Stevens Point, 56-79
#2385Becker23-40.518def. Newbury, 84-75; LOST to Elms, 65-79
#2463Oswego State23-40.502def. Potsdam State, 64-50; LOST to Brockport State, 70-74
#2559Ramapo20-60.513LOST to Montclair State, 64-67


Others receiving votes
Rank   Pts   TeamW-L   SOS     Results
#2655Ferrum23-50.466def. Averett, 70-47; def. Christopher Newport, 87-81;
LOST at #36 North Carolina Wesleyan, 70-74
#2751Texas-Dallas21-50.502def. Concordia (Texas), 85-70; LOST to Mary Hardin-Baylor, 69-77
#2843Manchester21-60.502def. Transylvania, 68-65; def. Hanover, 79-69
#2934Penn State-Behrend23-40.449def. Medaille, 58-51; LOST at #31 La Roche, 53-55
#3023Centre21-50.482def. Hendrix, 54-46; def. Oglethorpe, 70-57;
def. DePauw, 75-63
#3119La Roche25-20.477def. Hilbert, 86-69; def. #29 Penn State-Behrend, 55-53
#3217Hope22-60.522def. Alma, 110-77; def. Adrian, 63-45;
def. Calvin, 72-67
#3316Wittenberg19-80.536def. Denison, 77-63; def. #16 Wabash, 65-63;
LOST at #5 Wooster, 68-82
T#348Carleton18-80.542LOST to Gustavus Adolphus, 64-70
T#348Ithaca20-60.559LOST to St. John Fisher, 75-88
#367North Carolina Wesleyan21-60.503def. Greensboro, 86-69; def. #26 Ferrum, 74-70
#375North Central (Ill.)15-110.552LOST to Illinois Wesleyan, 57-69
#384Emory20-50.462def. #14 Rochester, 83-72
#393New Jersey City19-90.519def. Kean, 75-61; def. Montclair State, 72-67
#402UW-Whitewater17-90.546LOST to UW-Superior, 72-78
#411Salem State20-70.448def. Westfield State, 81-68; LOST to Bridgewater State, 73-91

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: nescac1 on February 27, 2011, 05:38:44 PM
Whitworth: 0 wins over top 25 teams, one loss vs. non-top 25
Williams: 2-2, including one loss, on the road, in OT, without its best player, 0 losses to teams outside the top 25
Middlebury: 3-1, 0 losses to teams outside the top 25

I think Midd is a clear number one, but I also don't think Williams should be seeded below Whitworth (not that it matters since they will be on opposite halves of the bracket).  In addition to those four brutal rivalry games, Williams beat another NCAA team (Elms), a solid Bowdoin squad twice, a tough Trinity team twice, and solid Salem State and RPI teams, both of whom made their conference finals.  If you look at Williams' top 10 toughest games vs. Whitworth's, it's not even close.  

MIdd's non-conference schedule was pretty weak, but what they did over the last weekend was VERY impressive, and going 3-1 vs. Amherst and Williams, with three of those four away from home, is no mean feat.  

I really can't imagine that Midd or Williams would have had much trouble with anyone on Whitworth's schedule, including the team Whitworth lost to.  

Stevens Point, that is a different story.  They have been fairly dominant in the best conference in D-3, and are, after all, the defending champs.  Going into the tourney, I'd say they are the odds-on favorite to win the title, especially if Tillema can return at some point.  I could see an argument for putting them number one before I'd put Whitworth, who hasn't beaten a single team even receiving VOTES in the last top 25 poll.  
Not changing my vote :)
I have seen Middlebury and Williams play in video and Whitworth in person... I think Whitworth is a better team. Too bad they didn't get a chance to play Stevens Point in Las Vegas.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Mr. Ypsi

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 27, 2011, 10:11:54 PM
Quote from: nescac1 on February 27, 2011, 05:38:44 PM
Whitworth: 0 wins over top 25 teams, one loss vs. non-top 25
Williams: 2-2, including one loss, on the road, in OT, without its best player, 0 losses to teams outside the top 25
Middlebury: 3-1, 0 losses to teams outside the top 25

I think Midd is a clear number one, but I also don't think Williams should be seeded below Whitworth (not that it matters since they will be on opposite halves of the bracket).  In addition to those four brutal rivalry games, Williams beat another NCAA team (Elms), a solid Bowdoin squad twice, a tough Trinity team twice, and solid Salem State and RPI teams, both of whom made their conference finals.  If you look at Williams' top 10 toughest games vs. Whitworth's, it's not even close.  

MIdd's non-conference schedule was pretty weak, but what they did over the last weekend was VERY impressive, and going 3-1 vs. Amherst and Williams, with three of those four away from home, is no mean feat.  

I really can't imagine that Midd or Williams would have had much trouble with anyone on Whitworth's schedule, including the team Whitworth lost to.  

Stevens Point, that is a different story.  They have been fairly dominant in the best conference in D-3, and are, after all, the defending champs.  Going into the tourney, I'd say they are the odds-on favorite to win the title, especially if Tillema can return at some point.  I could see an argument for putting them number one before I'd put Whitworth, who hasn't beaten a single team even receiving VOTES in the last top 25 poll.  
Not changing my vote :)
I have seen Middlebury and Williams play in video and Whitworth in person... I think Whitworth is a better team. Too bad they didn't get a chance to play Stevens Point in Las Vegas.

I predict they'll get that opportunity in about two weeks. ;)  (And the way UWSP is currently playing, they may not enjoy the opportunity as much as they might have in Vegas. :P)

nwhoops1903

Quote from: David Collinge on March 07, 2010, 12:34:19 PM
nescac1, as always, you provide an eloquent defense for Middlebury, on paper (or LCD).  But the fact remains that for two years running they have gone through a paper-tiger schedule like a blowtorch, only to come up empty in the NCAA tournament, both times at home against opponents that a legitimate top 10 team should beat.  I'm afraid they'll actually have to accomplish something before I am persuaded that #9 does not constitute a wild overranking for the Panthers.  You say they'll be even better next year; good.  Maybe I can get persuaded next March.
Just bringing this forward.    :o ;)
NWC fan

nwhoops1903

Quote from: nwhoops1903 on October 28, 2010, 01:57:10 AM
Whitworth tops NWC preseason poll.

http://www.nwcsports.com/sports/mbkb/2010-11/news/poll

.... I can argue WW has THE BEST potential impact newcomer in the country.
So after 25+ games, Can anyone top Michael Taylor as best impact newcomer?
NWC fan

nescac1

I don't think it's even close, nwhoops1903,  considering he may end up a first team All-American.  But considering he was ROY in a D-1 conference and transferred in as a senior, did anyone really have a chance??? 

In terms of top frosh, for a long time NESCAC folks would have said Aaron Toomey, until around the last three weeks of the season.  Now, he may not even be (and probably doesn't deserve to be) rookie of the year in his own conference, after Joey Kizel helped carry Midd to the NESCAC title.  Things can change very quickly in D-3 hoops!

89Pirate

Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 12:58:14 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on October 28, 2010, 01:57:10 AM
Whitworth tops NWC preseason poll.

http://www.nwcsports.com/sports/mbkb/2010-11/news/poll

.... I can argue WW has THE BEST potential impact newcomer in the country.
So after 25+ games, Can anyone top Michael Taylor as best impact newcomer?
Simple answer is NO !

magicman

New Top 25 poll is up and Whitworth regains the top spot edging out Middlebury by 1 point, 601-600. The Pirates get 14 first place votes to 8 for the Panthers. Steven Points moves up to #3 and gets 2 first place votes, while Williams falls from #1 down to #4. Wooster remains at #5 and gets the remaining 1st place vote. Same top 10 as last week just reshuffled a bit.

nwhoops1903

Hey NESCAC1,  close but no cigar baby!!! :P  ;)  ;D
NWC fan

nwhoops1903

#6492
For all the Massey Ratings supporters and skeptics:

Previous to last weekends games, Massey had 14 of its top 16 (EMU and Carleton) in the tourney.  All ratings used here are as of 3/2.

Of the 14, 12 advance to round 2.  #10 UW-RF and #14 St Norbert lose to #2 UW-SP and #31 IWU.  
10 of those advance to round 3.  The 2 that fell - #16 Hope to #8 Augustana, #7 Randolph Macon to #18 St. Mary's.

Only 2 "upsets" in 22 games.  20-2 record

Of the other 6 teams still alive: 8-4 record

#18 St. Mary's beat #7 RMU, #211 Medgar Evers
#29 Rochester beat #87 Elms, #92 MIT
#43 MHB beat #28 McMurry, #36 UT Dallas
#60 RI College  beat #132 PS-Behrend, #73 Oswego St.
#75 Cabrini beat #90 New Jersey City, #116 SUNY Purchase
#91 Buffalo St. beat #84 Gwynedd-Mercy, #188 Johnson & Wales

Massey Record amongst remaining 16: 28-5 (1 game in both groups StMarys/RM).  

This info is not shocking since most of us thought the top 12 teams were pretty clear, even to Massey  ;D.  Next round will really be the test.

Other info:
Masseys Bracket would have 51 points. Tied for 11th with 14 of 16 in the field.
NWC fan

John Gleich

It appears that Luther vs. Concordia (WI) was an upset...  Luther currently sits at 34 (up 13 spots) and CUW is #28 (down 5 spots), though that may be one of the five losses you noted.

What were the other upsets from the "other 16?"


UWSP Men's Basketball

National Champions: 2015, 2010, 2005, 2004

NCAA appearances: 2018, '15, '14, '13, '12, '11, '10, '09, '08, '07, '05, '04, '03, '00, 1997

WIAC/WSUC Champs: 2015, '14, '13, '11, '09, '07, '05, '03, '02, '01, '00, 1993, '92, '87, '86, '85, '84, '83, '82, '69, '61, '57, '48, '42, '37, '36, '35, '33, '18

Twitter: @JohnGleich

sac

Quote from: PointSpecial on March 07, 2011, 03:54:26 PM
It appears that Luther vs. Concordia (WI) was an upset...  Luther currently sits at 34 (up 13 spots) and CUW is #28 (down 5 spots), though that may be one of the five losses you noted.

What were the other upsets from the "other 16?"




Pretty sure Johnson and Wales over Ramapo was one