Top 25 talk

[7express]

Checking the schedules for the pick em league...man, #24 Randolph-Macon has it rough. Plays Christopher Newport who was 23-5 last year, then #16 Tranyslvania and then #19 St. Mary's (Md).

Plattsburgh State has to play #4 Middlebury on 11-25, then go to Oswego State who ended last year at #17 with a 26-4 log and is #32 in the ORV category this year. On 12-4 they travel to Keene State, a preseason pick to win the Little East Conference by many, and #41 in the ORV category (19-8 last year and have their 4 top scorers returning). They visit #9 Franklin & Marshall on Jan.2nd and could face Eastern Connecticut (#33 in the ORV category on Jan 3rd).  4 of those teams won games in the NCAA tournament  this past year and many people felt that Keene State deserved a Pool C bid. With 4 of those 5 games on the road I'll be real happy if they go 2-3.

Not to be outdone, Western Connecticut goes on the road to face #9 Franklin & Marshall Sunday then goes home 49 hours later and plays #28 (going by number of votes in the ORV category) Albertus Magnus.  I think with the travel involved (about 4 hours from Danbury to Lancaster, PA) that might be the toughest 2 game schedule this year.

[John Gleich]

#15 UW Stevens Point led by as many as 11 in the first half but by just one as they led 41-40 at St. Olaf.

The Oles came out and outworked, outshot, and outplayed the Pointers in the second half to take a 70-60 lead, but Point managed to get a few stops and hit a few shots... but trailed 81-79 with :31 left in the game.

St. Olaf missed the front end of a 1 and 1, but Point missed a 3 with 7 seconds left.  St. Olaf then missed BOTH free throws of a double bonus situation and sophomore Joe Ritchay hit a 25 foot three pointer with 1.3 seconds left. I honestly don't know what happened after that because St. Olaf's camera didn't follow the play to the other side of the floor....

But the final ended up in Stevens Point's favor!

#15 UW Stevens Point defeats St. Olaf 82-81

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Cabrini gets roasted by VWC tonight, a 37 point loss.  Cabrini is ranked #10, mostly on the quality of last year's run.  They lose Cory Lemons, but freshman Aaron Walton-Moss didn't come back this year.  They got a great performance from freshman Arron Goodman and they should be a strong squad, but #10 is way too high for them.

[Titan Q]

Cabrini gets roasted by VWC tonight, a 37 point loss.  Cabrini is ranked #10, mostly on the quality of last year's run.  They lose Cory Lemons, but freshman Aaron Walton-Moss didn't come back this year.  They got a great performance from freshman Arron Goodman and they should be a strong squad, but #10 is way too high for them.

Without Lemons and Walton-Moss, that Cabrini team last year just would not have been very good...nowhere near a Top 25 team, let alone a Final 4 team. 

Did the voters know Walton-Moss was not returning when they voted Cabrini #10?  Or did that news just come out?

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Cabrini gets roasted by VWC tonight, a 37 point loss.  Cabrini is ranked #10, mostly on the quality of last year's run.  They lose Cory Lemons, but freshman Aaron Walton-Moss didn't come back this year.  They got a great performance from freshman Arron Goodman and they should be a strong squad, but #10 is way too high for them.

Without Lemons and Walton-Moss, that Cabrini team last year just would not have been very good...nowhere near a Top 25 team, let alone a Final 4 team. 

Did the voters know Walton-Moss was not returning when they voted Cabrini #10?  Or did that news just come out?

My thought is grades.  I know Walton-Moss didn't head to college directly after college because of grades.  Maybe he had issues?  I know he was planning (or at least said as much) to return at the end of last season.

On the CSAC board, Coach C seems to know what's going on.  He also mentioned they may have some transfers coming in after Christmas (which is how Walton-Moss showed up last year).

[Gregory Sager]

Cabrini gets roasted by VWC tonight, a 37 point loss.  Cabrini is ranked #10, mostly on the quality of last year's run.  They lose Cory Lemons, but freshman Aaron Walton-Moss didn't come back this year.  They got a great performance from freshman Arron Goodman and they should be a strong squad, but #10 is way too high for them.

Without Lemons and Walton-Moss, that Cabrini team last year just would not have been very good...nowhere near a Top 25 team, let alone a Final 4 team. 

Did the voters know Walton-Moss was not returning when they voted Cabrini #10?  Or did that news just come out?

My thought is grades.  I know Walton-Moss didn't head to college directly after college because of grades.  Maybe he had issues?  I know he was planning (or at least said as much) to return at the end of last season.

On the CSAC board, Coach C seems to know what's going on.  He also mentioned they may have some transfers coming in after Christmas (which is how Walton-Moss showed up last year).

I wouldn't rush to judgment, HF. Walton-Moss has a little daughter. Lots of guys have to hang up the sneakers due to the responsibilities of fatherhood.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Cabrini gets roasted by VWC tonight, a 37 point loss.  Cabrini is ranked #10, mostly on the quality of last year's run.  They lose Cory Lemons, but freshman Aaron Walton-Moss didn't come back this year.  They got a great performance from freshman Arron Goodman and they should be a strong squad, but #10 is way too high for them.

Without Lemons and Walton-Moss, that Cabrini team last year just would not have been very good...nowhere near a Top 25 team, let alone a Final 4 team. 

Did the voters know Walton-Moss was not returning when they voted Cabrini #10?  Or did that news just come out?

I am not sure about others... but I knew... and did not include them in my Top 25 (they were in my Top 40... along with Catholic... just couldn't squeeze all of the teams in I wanted to get in...)

[Pat Coleman]

It was in the preseason info. Reportedly, he is also coming back at the semester break.

[NEPAFAN]

Does Massey still do ratings for Division 3?

[smedindy]

Yep:

http://masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&yr=2013&sub=11620

[John Gleich]

Does Massey still do ratings for Division 3?

Yep, go to Mratings.com, then select basketball, College Men (or which ever group you want)

Then click on NCAA I near the upper left corner and select NCAA III



It's only updated weekly... and there are some pretty drastic shifts from one week to the next with such a small amount of data.

Not all of the games played through the 19th appear to be in the system yet either, so I'd take it with a rather hefty grain of salt.

(Ex. UW Whitewater is 1-0, showing 0-0, St. Thomas is 2-0, showing 0-0, Whitworth is 0-1, showing 0-0, Wheaton is 2-0, showing 1-0, etc, etc etc).


And that doesn't even begin to talk about the quality of the data. There seems to be a fairly significant bias towards the WIAC. That may be partially due to the fact that the WIAC out of conference win % is at or near the top every year, or due to the fact that the WIAC has won 4 or the last 9 national championships and 2 of the last 3... but this has been the fact for much of the last decade.


You get weird things... the top 4 WIAC teams in the top 11 in the country.

I think Whitewater might be in the top 11, but it isn't a sure-fire thing yet. They had an opening night scare against Beloit.

I'm not sure that Stevens Point is there yet (pretty sure they're not, but they very well could be by the end of the year).

I'm almost certain that River Falls is not (they're 1-1 at the moment, having lost to Northwestern (MN) and likely to lose again tonight to St. Thomas).

La Crosse is 2-0 against middle of the road non-conference opponents. They were picked 3rd in the league in the preseason poll... so maybe they're that good... but we just don't know yet.


Massey has a bad habit of counting cames that shouldn't count, as well. MIT and Harvard played to start the year and Harvard won.

This is a bit confusing, though... because the game counted for Harvard... but it was an exhibition for MIT. So I'm not really sure how he'd deal with that one regardless...

[John Gleich]

Yep:

http://masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&yr=2013&sub=11620

... Or somebody could just post the link... 

[NEPAFAN]

Thanks for the help ( both types) Gents.


I went to the site and couldn't find it, obviously.

[7express]

It's only updated weekly... and there are some pretty drastic shifts from one week to the next with such a small amount of data.

Not all of the games played through the 19th appear to be in the system yet either, so I'd take it with a rather hefty grain of salt.

It's weird.  There are some teams out of the LEC that have the correct record RIC, Eastern, Dartmouth & Plymouth, a school that only has 1 of its 2 games calculated (Western), and then 3 that have none of it's 2 games calculated (Southern Maine, Boston & Keene state)

[John Gleich]

It's only updated weekly... and there are some pretty drastic shifts from one week to the next with such a small amount of data.

Not all of the games played through the 19th appear to be in the system yet either, so I'd take it with a rather hefty grain of salt.

It's weird.  There are some teams out of the LEC that have the correct record RIC, Eastern, Dartmouth & Plymouth, a school that only has 1 of its 2 games calculated (Western), and then 3 that have none of it's 2 games calculated (Southern Maine, Boston & Keene state)

Yeah, I'm not exactly sure what the data input is... he uses several different sites (of which this is one, I think).

Probably a bit of a hangover because football is in full swing and basketball is ramping up, perhaps?