Top 25 talk

[Titan Q]

just curious....what is north central's strength of schedule?

NCC is 77 in SOS.

Here are the top ten in SOS per Massey:

1. UW-Whitewater
2. UW-Stevens Point
3. Hobart
4. Randolph-Macon
5. Pacific Lutheran
6. Illinois Wesleyan
7. Carthage
8. Simpson
9. St. Thomas
10. Louisiana College

[toooldtohoop]

thanks Q.  by the way-congrats to the Titans on getting a great road win to begin conference.

[Titan Q]

I've seen Wash U play 4 times in person this year and a couple other times on video.  In fact, as we speak, I'm watching the Bears play @ Chicago...

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/maroon-tv

My sense is that #5 Wash U is quite a bit better than #2 Middlebury.  (Again, just going off a half of Middlebury basketball today.)

Of course just as I talk up Wash U...

Final from Chicago...

U. of Chicago 68
#5 Wash U 60

Big result in the UAA.

[nescac1]

Yeah, I'd say (as a NESCAC observer) that Midd is clearly overrated.  I don't think any NESCAC team is a top-10 level right now, although Williams is right on the cusp, as the Ephs keep getting better and better and have had some pretty solid wins lately (Luther out west, plus two double-digit road wins vs. Tufts and Bates).  If you compare the common opponents between Midd and Williams, it's hard to come to any conclusion other than that, right now, Williams is a better team:

Williams beat Southern Vermont by 30, RPI by 45, Tufts by 15, Bates by 11.  Midd beat the same teams by 36, 19, 1, and 3.  Williams' only loss was to Stevens, a top-25 caliber team which is better than any team Midd has played, and Williams has wins over solid Salem State, Springfield and Luther teams, all better wins than any Midd non-conference win. 

I think Midd is really missing Ryan Sharry, everything for the Panthers has flowed over the last three years, on both ends, from its dominance and size advantage inside, led in particular by Sharry and also by some other solid big guys like Andrew Locke (who graduated the year before).  Now Midd has mediocre-at-best big guys and is very dependent on its talented and experienced back-court, and it is Williams that has the dominant interior play (two all-American level talents in Taylor Epley and Mike Mayer, both of whom I expect to contend for regional individual honors this year, and national honors by next season).  I think that Williams is a bit under-ranked right now, and probably belongs in the 10-15 range, just barely ahead of Midd, with Amherst (which seems to be improving after some struggles before the break) probably properly ranked.

Out of New England, I am most surprised / impressed by WPI, which has really looked good despite graduating a lot and featuring a very young frosh and soph dominated team.  WPI looks good for a tourney spot this year, and could really cause some noise nationally in a year or two considering the youth on the roster.   

[Titan Q]

Video for #1 North Central hosting #8 Wheaton...

http://www.nctv17.com/schedule/

[sac]

just curious....what is north central's strength of schedule?

NCC is 77 in SOS.

Here are the top ten in SOS per Massey:

1. UW-Whitewater
2. UW-Stevens Point
3. Hobart
4. Randolph-Macon
5. Pacific Lutheran
6. Illinois Wesleyan
7. Carthage
8. Simpson
9. St. Thomas
10. Louisiana College

Pacific Lutheran and Louisiana College are getting credit for exhibitions vs D1 opponents that shouldn't count.

[Ralph Turner]

just curious....what is north central's strength of schedule?

NCC is 77 in SOS.

Here are the top ten in SOS per Massey:

1. UW-Whitewater
2. UW-Stevens Point
3. Hobart
4. Randolph-Macon
5. Pacific Lutheran
6. Illinois Wesleyan
7. Carthage
8. Simpson
9. St. Thomas
10. Louisiana College

Pacific Lutheran and Louisiana College are getting credit for exhibitions vs D1 opponents that shouldn't count.

Respectfully, SOS can be used for several purposes.

SOS for D3 in-region ranking is one thing and should be carefully maintained.

If you are trying to gauge how good an isolated team is, and you have no other reference points in D3, then it is a fair measure for the NWC, SCIAC and the ASC/old "SCAC-West".

The ASC is becoming even more isolated as it "shrinks" with the departure to D-2 by McMurry this year and Mississippi College.  Also the "split-off of the SAA" from the "SCAC-West" isolates the "Trinity/Southwestern/UDallas/Austin College/Colorado College" core as a reference point for the ASC teams even more.

[Pat Coleman]

The ASC could take this opportunity to become less isolated, though, now that it has more non-conference games available.

Interestingly, next year four teams from the Northwest Conference are coming to the D3hoops.com Classic in Vegas. Three WIAC teams and Carroll will be joining them. Those NWC teams are taking the opportunity to mitigate their isolation. More ASC teams could follow Hardin-Simmons' lead and join us in Vegas in the future.

[Ralph Turner]

The ASC could take this opportunity to become less isolated, though, now that it has more non-conference games available.

Interestingly, next year four teams from the Northwest Conference are coming to the D3hoops.com Classic in Vegas. Three WIAC teams and Carroll will be joining them. Those NWC teams are taking the opportunity to mitigate their isolation. More ASC teams could follow Hardin-Simmons' lead and join us in Vegas in the future.

I wonder if that will really happen.  I am glad that HSU has begun to travel in basketball.  The Hoops Classic was a great place for them to play.  I hope that the Hoops Classic will become a favored venue for "travel orphans" to go for "in-region" games of substance.  Formerly, they  (HSU) would get their 4-non-conference games against Southwestern, Trinity, and 1-2 "money games".  With the departure of McMurry and MissCollege, HSU has become even a stronger voice in the conference.

Travel is really a huge problem, just to play the conference schedule.

ETBU seems to place its monies into Football and softball  (National champs in 2010).  Hoops seldom travel. 
Louisiana College is three hours away from its nearest opponent.  Sul Ross is four hours away.  Howard Payne and LeTourneau are not overflowing with cash.  Frequently, in the old 15 team conference,  several ASC teams would spend 10-12 nights "on the road" for the 20/21 game conference schedule.
UTD has traveled some.  The University of Texas System has plenty of money for "buildings" but operating budgets for athletics usually come out of student fees.
UTT has not traveled much in several sports.  I am not sure how strong the donor base is for them, outside of Capital Funds projects for facilities.
Ozarks is in the South Region and Admin Region 3.  They get no credit for going to Missouri or Illinois, which may be closer than most other "in-region" foes.  Aside from Hendrix and Rhodes, everyone else in D-III is more than 4 hours away.

TLU and Schreiner are moving to the SCAC. They may have some extra travel monies available but they still have to get to Colorado College, somehow.

UMHB and Concordia have worked at getting snow-birds to come for the holidays.

[Pat Coleman]

Starting next year the in-region issue gets downplayed for ASC schools. Remember, every D-III opponent will count in the primary criteria -- you just need to play 70% of your schedule in-region. As long as ASC schools continue to get 18 games against conference opponents, they'll meet that standard. Then they can get D-III opponents in other places.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Emergency call for Darryl Nester; please pick up the house phone!

The Posters Poll is beginning for the year.  My voters and I don't get the weekly updates from Pat.  Without your 'How They Fared', participation is gonna drop to 3 or 4 of us fanatics - how many will research 40-50 teams, when (with your help) the (deep) research drops to a handful?!

We NEED you, man!  (And please also cast a ballot. )

[Greek Tragedy]

The ASC could take this opportunity to become less isolated, though, now that it has more non-conference games available.

Interestingly, next year four teams from the Northwest Conference are coming to the D3hoops.com Classic in Vegas. Three WIAC teams and Carroll will be joining them. Those NWC teams are taking the opportunity to mitigate their isolation. More ASC teams could follow Hardin-Simmons' lead and join us in Vegas in the future.

Can you disclose all the teams, or at least the WIAC teams?  Even if it isn't Stevens Point, I might be tempted.  Besides, it's Vegas Baby! Also, the dates (not the specific game dates, but from what day through what day)?

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (Complete)

Sorry this is late -- with the new semester beginning today, I got wrapped up in class prep last night.  (And now I have to go teach Calculus in half an hour ....)

The upcoming games listed for Jan. 7 and 8 are a result of my program scanning for games one week out from the last poll.


Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	605	North Central (Ill.)	13-0	won at Elmhurst, 71-51; def. #8 Wheaton (Ill.), 69-55
#2	602	Middlebury	11-0	won at Bates, 59-56; won at Tufts, 70-69
#3	591	St. Thomas	11-0	def. Carleton, 78-69; def. #31 Augsburg, 94-52; 01/07 at Bethel
#4	537	Rochester	12-0	def. Rochester Tech, 78-48; def. #44 Emory, 89-80
#5	484	Washington U.	10-2	won at MacMurray, 77-62; LOST at Chicago, 60-68
#6	461	Whitworth	12-1	won at Pacific, 80-77; won at Lewis and Clark, 78-66; 01/08 vs. #33 Whitman
#7	433	Adrian	11-2	LOST at Calvin, 50-56; LOST to Hope, 72-81
#8	392	Wheaton (Ill.)	10-3	LOST to #25 Illinois Wesleyan, 80-83; LOST at #1 North Central (Ill.), 55-69
#9	359	Catholic	12-1	def. Washington College, 79-63; def. Merchant Marine, 74-57
#10	349	Ramapo	12-1	def. Medgar Evers, 80-61; won at Rowan, 88-87; def. Potsdam State, 94-80
#11	343	UW-Stevens Point	12-2	def. UW-River Falls, 82-65; won at UW-Eau Claire, 54-50
#12	334	UW-Whitewater	11-2	def. Cardinal Stritch, 91-81; won at UW-River Falls, 68-63
#13	310	St. Mary's (Md.)	13-1	won at Roanoke, 82-72; won at Frostburg State, 96-89; 01/07 vs. #17 Franklin and Marshall
#14	307	WPI	13-0	won at St. Joseph's (Maine), 58-45; def. Babson, 71-38; 01/08 at Coast Guard
#15	306	Wooster	10-2	IDLE
#16	216	Christopher Newport	11-1	def. Ferrum, 76-58; won at Methodist, 68-48; won at Greensboro, 90-60
#17	213	Franklin and Marshall	11-1	def. Plattsburgh State, 71-55; def. Eastern Connecticut, 56-52; def. Swarthmore, 81-58; 01/07 at #13 St. Mary's (Md.)
#18	179	Ohio Wesleyan	11-1	won at Wittenberg, 72-60
#19	162	Augustana	12-1	def. North Park, 89-54; won at Carthage, 68-56
#20	133	Albertus Magnus	9-1	def. Worcester State, 84-82; def. Johnson and Wales, 91-75; 01/08 at St. Joseph's (Maine)
#21	97	Williams	12-1	won at Tufts, 83-68; won at Bates, 80-69
#22	92	Amherst	11-2	won at Wesleyan, 75-61; won at Connecticut College, 77-67
#23	84	Virginia Wesleyan	8-4	LOST at Apprentice School, 89-100; won at Shenandoah, 87-54; 01/08 at Bridgewater (Va.)
#24	68	Hampden-Sydney	11-2	LOST at #41 Guilford, 54-68
#25	60	Illinois Wesleyan	10-3	won at #8 Wheaton (Ill.), 83-80; def. Elmhurst, 80-51

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	52	Rose-Hulman	12-1	def. Earlham, 67-59; won at Mount St. Joseph, 52-36
#27	50	Randolph	12-0	def. Randolph-Macon, 66-65
T#28	47	NYU	9-2	def. Alvernia, 62-60; LOST at Brandeis, 59-65; 01/08 vs. Hunter
T#28	47	MIT	10-2	won at Wheaton (Mass.), 84-47; 01/08 at Springfield
#30	31	Concordia (Texas)	10-2	won at T#47 Texas-Tyler, 79-71; won at East Texas Baptist, 87-82; 01/08 at Mary Hardin-Baylor
#31	28	Augsburg	9-1	def. North Central (Minn.), 82-74; LOST at #3 St. Thomas, 52-94; 01/07 at St. John's
#32	27	Transylvania	10-3	won at Franklin, 72-58; def. Defiance, 75-68
#33	22	Whitman	9-4	LOST at Lewis and Clark, 84-88; won at Pacific, 76-65; 01/08 at #6 Whitworth
#34	21	Rhode Island College	10-2	def. Wheaton (Mass.), 86-42; def. Mass-Boston, 63-49; 01/08 at Southern Maine
#35	20	Lycoming	11-2	LOST at Widener, 78-86
#36	10	Salisbury	10-4	LOST to Eastern Connecticut, 55-75; won at Plattsburgh State, 87-69
#37	8	UW-La Crosse	11-3	def. T#38 UW-Platteville, 65-53; def. UW-Oshkosh, 65-49
T#38	7	St. Norbert	8-3	def. Monmouth, 64-52
T#38	7	Bethany	11-3	won at Westminster (Pa.), 76-51; LOST at St. Vincent, 66-69; 01/07 at Carnegie Mellon
T#38	7	UW-Platteville	11-4	LOST at #37 UW-La Crosse, 53-65; def. UW-Superior, 96-55
#41	6	Guilford	11-2	won at Methodist, 84-61; def. #24 Hampden-Sydney, 68-54
#42	5	Stevens	8-1	won at Houghton, 80-61; won at Nazareth, 76-70; 01/07 at Kean
#43	4	UW-Stout	11-2	def. UW-Eau Claire, 54-46
#44	3	Emory	8-3	LOST at #4 Rochester, 80-89
T#45	2	Carroll (Wis.)	9-3	def. Grinnell, 119-110
T#45	2	Dubuque	10-2	LOST at Wartburg, 58-69
T#47	1	DeSales	10-2	won at Haverford, 64-41; 01/07 vs. Arcadia
T#47	1	Texas-Tyler	10-3	LOST to #30 Concordia (Texas), 71-79; LOST to Mary Hardin-Baylor, 71-75

[Pat Coleman]

The ASC could take this opportunity to become less isolated, though, now that it has more non-conference games available.

Interestingly, next year four teams from the Northwest Conference are coming to the D3hoops.com Classic in Vegas. Three WIAC teams and Carroll will be joining them. Those NWC teams are taking the opportunity to mitigate their isolation. More ASC teams could follow Hardin-Simmons' lead and join us in Vegas in the future.

Can you disclose all the teams, or at least the WIAC teams?  Even if it isn't Stevens Point, I might be tempted.  Besides, it's Vegas Baby! Also, the dates (not the specific game dates, but from what day through what day)?

I don't have the dates yet, but I can ask. Not everyone is signed on the dotted line as of yet but Stevens Point is supposed to be one of the teams.

[Greek Tragedy]

When you posted that information, am I to assume those are all men's teams you are talking about since this is the men's board?