Top 25 talk

[John Gleich]

Three cheers for pre-season polls.

Preseason polls are... a crapshoot.

But, I wonder how last year's postseason poll has fared to begin the season.

1. Amherst (3-0)
2. MHBU (1-0)
3. North Central (2-2)
4. St. Thomas (2-1)
5. Williams (3-1)
6. Middlebury (3-2)
7. Calvin (3-0)
8. St. Mary's (2-1)
9. Illinois Wesleyan (3-1)
10. UWW (3-0)
11. Whitworth (2-1)
12. Catholic (3-1)
13. Cabrini (3-0)
14. Wooster (3-0)
15. UWSP (3-0)
16. Va Wesleyan (3-0)
17. Randolph-Macon (1-2)
18. WPI (3-1)
19. Ithaca (2-3)
20. Morrisville St (2-2)
21. RIC (2-2)
22. Wash U (4-0)
23. Rochester (1-3)
24. Wheaton (3-2)
25. Ohio Wesleyan (2-1)

So, if we just take last year's poll, there are 9 of the top 25 who are still undefeated. Certainly, teams that were good last year don't need to be good this year... if they had a team chock full of seniors and now they've got a bunch of freshmen running around, then they're probably going to struggle.

But the results are very similar to the preseason poll.


This isnt' to disparage the poll or the pollsters... it just shows how difficult the job actually is!

[sac]

My cynicism towards pre-season polls isn't only directed at this years D3hoops poll, its every pre-season poll that is a terrible idea.  In no sport is it more terrible than D1 football where fortunes are dictated and opinions formed about teams that sometimes last all season based on a poll published in August before a single down has occurred.

All pre-season polls should be burned and thrown away.  In a perfect world no poll should take place in any sport until about a quarter of the season has taken place.

[Gregory Sager]

..a preseason poll holds no value other than as a conversation piece and/or a promotional tool.

What other value is it supposed to hold? Even when highly accurate, in D3 hoops at least, that's all a voter poll is meant to achieve.

You're basically reinforcing my point here, David.

[KnightSlappy]

My cynicism towards pre-season polls isn't only directed at this years D3hoops poll, its every pre-season poll that is a terrible idea.  In no sport is it more terrible than D1 football where fortunes are dictated and opinions formed about teams that sometimes last all season based on a poll published in August before a single down has occurred.

All pre-season polls should be burned and thrown away.  In a perfect world no poll should take place in any sport until about a quarter of the season has taken place.

Other than D1 football, aren't all polls "for entertainment purposes only"? What's wrong with preseason entertainment? It's like filling out a march madness bracket or reading Buster Olney's MLB power rankings.

[madzillagd]

Agreed KS.  As a result of the Top 25 I already was able to watch Loras beat Wheaton, Wooster beat Wheaton, and St. Mary's beat Midd.  All games I probably wouldn't have tuned into if the teams weren't ranked.  With 40-50 games available on a night, I tend to look for the ranked matchups first, regional battles second when deciding what to throw on in the background. 

[mailsy]

Is there going to be a new poll this week or do we wait till after Turkey Day?

[John Gleich]

Is there going to be a new poll this week or do we wait till after Turkey Day?

I think there should be one this week... probably tomorrow (or whenever the voters all get their ballots in).

The polls run through games on Sunday, so through yesterday's games.

[NEPAFAN]

Is there going to be a new poll this week or do we wait till after Turkey Day?

I think there should be one this week... probably tomorrow (or whenever the voters all get their ballots in).

The polls run through games on Sunday, so through yesterday's games.

Agreed, there was no poll last week, so don't think we go two weeks without a poll.

[dcahill44]

What East region teams do you think get votes this week if anyone. Nazareth 3-0, RIT 4-0, Hobart 2-0, NYU 3-0... Not saying anyone should get votes... nor does it matter if they get votes.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Poll comes out tonight-ish... the first week is always skipped due to the lack of games.

As for East Region... Hobart was already on my ballot and will stay there. Nothing against NYU, but voters have been burned by them far too often to reward them for starting 3-0; the others certainly are worth looking at, but RIT only beat one good team and barely survived against a sub-par team... and Nazareth's only significant win was against Rochester who has started 1-3. There are others that may get some looks as well, though.

[John Gleich]

What East region teams do you think get votes this week if anyone. Nazareth 3-0, RIT 4-0, Hobart 2-0, NYU 3-0... Not saying anyone should get votes... nor does it matter if they get votes.

I'm not a voter, but I'd say Hobart will likely get more votes. They were already "on the RADAR" for the voters as they were receiving votes, and the two teams that they beat were also receiving votes.

If you beat a team who I think is good, then you're probably good too.


Under that logic, Loras will probably pick up a few votes... even though they lost two games to two unranked teams (and beat two top-6 teams, both of whom will fall pretty significantly with this next poll, I'd imagine).

It isn't a lock that an undefeated team gets a look... if you haven't beaten anyone of note, then it won't mean as much.

[Darryl Nester]

Sorry for my delinquency in not posting HTF last night -- I'll do better next week, I promise.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Darryl, much thanks for doing those updates.  I'm not sure the Posters' Poll would even exist if not for them!

John, my guess would be that IWU will only fall a couple of slots, but Wheaton (and NCC) will probably fall fairly drastically, with 2 losses each (though Wheaton's other loss, @Wooster, is certainly not a bad loss).  The consensus in the CCIW seems to be that both were over-ranked to begin with (esp. NCC).

As for Loras, two great wins, but with losses to Millikin and (especially) Rockford, I can't see them getting all that much support just yet.

[sac]

Under the radar game for Tuesday that may or may not affect the new poll

Mt. St. Joseph (2-0) at DePauw (3-0)

DePauw beat North Central, MSJ beat Wilmington who beat Miami(Ohio)

[John Gleich]

Sorry for my delinquency in not posting HTF last night -- I'll do better next week, I promise.

I picked ya up for week 1... at least a bit... but this was pretty easy. The delta was very easy to figure out from 0... but... here on out it would be very difficult to do what I did again!