Top 25 talk

[John Gleich]

BTW, Massey now has the Emerson / Amherst game. It's the third most unlikely result of the year thus far, behind Principia / Millikin and Transylvania / Wilmington.

That of course could change due to fluctuations in rankings going forward, but I don't think anything can catch Principia / Millikin...

Yep, it showed up... either on the 16th, or the 23rd (can't remember) and Amherst plummeted in the ratings.

Wooster's win vs Westmont is now up too (which it wasn't earlier) but the lost to Arizona Christian isn't there still.

Interestingly, Arizona Chiristian is ranked 506 in all of college basketball (compared to 519 for Westmont).  Wooster is currently #309 and #2 in D-III.

Here's the top (several) in D-III and their overall rankings, to compare with Arizona Christian and Westmont:

(Massey rank, overall rank, d3hoops rank)

#1 UWSP - 210  (#1)
#2 Wooster - 309  (#2)
#3 Cabrini - 339  (#4)
#4 IWU - 370  (#3)
#5 UW Whitewater - 409  (#12)
#6 Augustana - 429  (#13)
#7 SUNY Purchase - 430  (#21)
#8 Christopher Newport - 434  (#18)
#9 Marietta - 441  (#15)
#10 Mary Washington - 444  (ORV #2)
#11 Dickinson - 450  (ORV #8)
#12 Richard Stockton - 455  (ORV #11)
#13 St Thomas - 474 (#7)
#14 Va Wesleyan - 482  (#10)
#15 Bethany (VW) - 486 (NR)
#16 Wesley - 492  (#20)
#17 Albertus Magnus - 494  (ORV #6)
#18 Bowdoin - 497  (ORV #20)
#19 Brockport State - 522 (ORV #7)
#20 Amherst - 528 (#6)
#21 Stevenson - 531 (ORV #3)
#22 Wittenberg - 541 (#11)
#23 Wheaton - 545 (#24)
#24 CO College - 558 (#25)
#25 UT Dallas - 569 (ORV #14)

So, in essence, Wooster's win (and loss) were to teams akin to #18/#19 in the country.

The big outlier for Massey would be Bethany (WV).


Who's missing in Massey's top 25 that are in the D3hoops.com top 25?

(D3hoops rank, Massey rank)

#5 Williams (38)
#8 WPI (61)
#9 Wash U (26)
#14 St Norbert (36)
#16 Calvin (53)
#17 Guilford (43)
#19 Middlebury (37)
#22 E Conn (42)
#23 St. Mary (34)

The outlier(s?) here would be WPI and Calvin.


A couple of extra thoughts... (so, the 2 cents on top of my 2 cents?)

The D3hoops top 25 is already about 2 weeks old... so some of these ratings or rankings that seem off might be closer once results show up in the rankings (and are already showing up in the ratings).

Massey really seems down on the NESCAC.

Here's how Massey would rank the conferences:

1. UAA
2. WIAC
3. OAC (Wooster, and the conference, will drop when the AZ Christian result posts, based on the information above)
4. CCIW
5. ODAC
6. MAC Commonwealth
7. Capital
8. NESCAC

[smedindy]

Wooster's not in the OAC.

[John Gleich]

Wooster's not in the OAC.

That, of course, is true.

I'll go sit down now...

[magicman]

#1 Stevens Points with a win over Whitworth 93-75. A close game for the first half, Whitworth had a 2 point, 45-43 lead, at the break but the Pointers outscored the Pirates 50-30 in the 2nd half to win going away. Pointers' Tyler Tilema with 33 points to capture scoring honors. 

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Only going away in about the last six minutes... that was still a close game until foul trouble for Whitworth started seeing their best players heading for the bench with under 8 to play.

[nescac1]

Other than Tillema and Haas, Stevens-Point doesn't wow you with overwhelming individual talent, not particularly big or quick or dynamic off the dribble (again, other than Tillema), but wow they play well on both ends as a team, such an impressive system to watch.  They are tough defensively despite lacking an imposing interior presence just because each guy knows his role and they seem almost never to be out of position.  As usual, on offense their off-the-ball motion is so precise and unrelenting, and all of their high screens are very effective.  The offense rarely seems to get bogged down into a quagmire situation. They are great at getting open, and when they get open they have deadly shooters from deep and a nice interior finisher in Richard, and Tillema is great at breaking down the defense on his own on the rare occasions when the system isn't generating easy looks through motion and ball movement.  They are particularly good at exploiting help defense.  Almost all their shot attempts seem to be close to the rim or good looks in rhythm from three, which is why they are so efficient offensively.  The only weakness so far seems to be spotty team foul shooting, but it will take an incredibly disciplined and well-prepared defensive team to slow down that offense. 

I like Whitworth's two frosh, especially Jurlina from Australia.  They will be better as they get those two guys get more experience. 

[wooscotsfan]

Final:  Wooster 88  Thiel 53

[Greek Tragedy]

I appreciate your insight and thoughts on the Pointers, nescac1. I think what makes the Pointers stand out is that the whole team can be involved. Instead of everyone standing around watching Tillema create and break down the defense, the players understand and have the ability to get themselves open, giving Tillema options. As a Pointer fan, I will admit we don't have a lot of guys athletic enough to create their own shots (like conference rival Whitewater), but its nice to know our guys are smart enough to get open, instead of "watching the pain dry"!

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (So Far)

A couple of games are still in progress.  In addition, the score for Stevenson vs. Lagrange might not be correct, although it should be close:  The live stats appeared to be stuck at 10 seconds left in the second half.

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	618	UW-Stevens Point	9-0	def. #7 St. Thomas, 75-62; won at T#29 Whitworth, 93-75; 12/29 at Whitman; 12/31 at T#39 North Central (Ill.); 01/04 vs. UW-La Crosse
#2	599	Wooster	9-1	def. Westmont, 53-47; LOST at Arizona Christian, 60-62; def. Thiel, 88-53; 12/30 vs. Hanover; 01/04 vs. Denison
#3	566	Illinois Wesleyan	9-1	def. Blackburn, 95-61; def. Wilmington, 74-65; won at Hope, 91-83; 01/02 vs. Franklin; 01/04 at Elmhurst
#4	550	Cabrini	9-0	def. Randolph-Macon, 98-91; 01/02 vs. #20 Wesley
#5	529	Williams	8-1	def. Washington College, 84-76; 12/30 at Washington and Lee; 01/02 at T#46 Hampden-Sydney
#6	501	Amherst	7-1	01/01 at Nova Southeastern
#7	397	St. Thomas	6-2	LOST at #1 UW-Stevens Point, 62-75; 01/04 vs. Carleton
#8	395	WPI	9-1	01/03 at Becker
#9	368	Washington U.	6-2	12/30 at Fontbonne; 01/02 vs. #24 Wheaton (Ill.); 01/04 vs. Webster
#10	358	Virginia Wesleyan	8-2	LOST at #27 Mary Washington, 87-95; def. Ferrum, 105-64; 01/03 vs. North Carolina Wesleyan
#11	346	Wittenberg	10-1	won at Thomas More, 87-70; def. Grove City, 79-40; def. Kean, 91-75
#12	338	UW-Whitewater	8-2	def. Alma, 97-69; def. Lawrence, 73-56; won at Augsburg, 89-81; 12/30 vs. Edgewood; 01/04 vs. UW-River Falls
#13	297	Augustana	10-1	def. Mount St. Joseph, 81-56; won at UW-La Crosse, 71-58; def. UW-Oshkosh, 63-41; 01/04 vs. Carthage
#14	259	St. Norbert	7-1	def. Carroll, 76-69; def. Alma, 103-69; 12/30 vs. Viterbo; 01/04 vs. Lawrence
#15	254	Marietta	8-2	def. Muskingum, 79-70; LOST to T#46 Ohio Wesleyan, 74-79; 12/30 at Albion
#16	243	Calvin	8-2	won at Redlands, 88-82; 12/30 at Claremont-Mudd-Scripps
#17	206	Guilford	9-2	won at North Carolina Wesleyan, 84-78; LOST at T#32 Dickinson, 75-90; LOST to Birmingham-Southern, 56-72; 01/04 vs. Messiah
#18	177	Christopher Newport	8-1	def. Salisbury, 56-47; 12/30 vs. Pitt-Greensburg; 01/04 vs. Frostburg State
#19	173	Middlebury	6-2	01/02 at Salve Regina
#20	141	Wesley	7-1	won at Ramapo, 76-67; 01/02 at #4 Cabrini; 01/04 vs. Southern Virginia
#21	110	SUNY-Purchase	7-0	01/04 vs. SUNY-Old Westbury
#22	90	Eastern Connecticut	7-3	LOST at T#39 North Central (Ill.), 69-70; LOST to Carthage, 58-61; 01/04 at Plymouth State
#23	86	St. Mary's (Md.)	7-3	won at Susquehanna, 54-51; won at Sacred Heart (P.R.), 61-56; 01/04 vs. Marymount
#24	84	Wheaton (Ill.)	7-3	def. Northwestern (Minn.), 69-47; 01/02 at #9 Washington U.; 01/04 at Millikin
#25	71	Colorado College	6-1	won at Lehman, 82-75; 12/30 at T#34 Babson; 01/04 at University of Dallas

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	50	UW-Stout	7-3	LOST at Millikin, 56-68; 12/30 at Plattsburgh State; 01/04 vs. UW-Eau Claire
#27	38	Mary Washington	9-1	def. #10 Virginia Wesleyan, 95-87; won at Randolph, 51-50; 01/04 vs. York (Pa.)
#28	26	Stevenson	8-1	def. Marywood, 89-65; def. LaGrange, 102-90; 12/30 at #30 Oglethorpe; 01/04 vs. Widener
T#29	24	Whitworth	5-3	def. Southwestern, 74-59; LOST to #1 UW-Stevens Point, 75-93; 12/29 at T#39 UW-Platteville; 01/03 at Pacific; 01/04 at Willamette
#30	26	Oglethorpe	10-1	def. Rust, 80-72; 12/30 vs. #28 Stevenson
#31	22	Albertus Magnus	7-1	LOST at Central Conn. St., 82-85
T#32	21	Brockport State	4-1	12/30 at Hamilton; 12/31 at TBA
T#32	21	Dickinson	9-2	won at Catholic, 86-74; def. T#43 Alvernia, 72-57; def. #17 Guilford, 90-75; LOST at Randolph-Macon, 71-77
T#34	14	Babson	7-2	12/30 vs. #25 Colorado College; 01/04 vs. Elms
T#34	14	John Carroll	8-2	LOST at Rose-Hulman, 80-85; won at Howard Payne, 99-86; won at Austin, 90-76; 01/04 at Muskingum
#36	17	Richard Stockton	9-1	won at Millsaps, 70-65; def. Gettysburg, 59-53; 01/04 vs. Rutgers-Newark
#37	12	Baldwin Wallace	6-4	LOST to Wilmington, 74-87; LOST at Mount Union, 79-90; LOST at Bethany, 58-60; won at Southwestern, 76-62; 12/30 at Schreiner; 01/04 vs. Otterbein
#38	11	Defiance	8-1	LOST at Oakland, 66-87; def. Albion, 50-48; 12/30 vs. T#46 Ohio Wesleyan; 01/04 at Hanover
T#39	10	Texas-Dallas	6-1	won at Sul Ross State, 79-71; 01/02 vs. Louisiana College; 01/04 vs. Mississippi College
T#39	10	North Central (Ill.)	7-3	def. #22 Eastern Connecticut, 70-69; LOST at Buffalo State, 72-80; 12/31 vs. #1 UW-Stevens Point; 01/04 vs. North Park
T#39	10	UW-Platteville	8-3	won at George Fox, 98-91; 12/29 vs. T#29 Whitworth; 01/04 at UW-Superior
#42	7	Dubuque	8-0	def. AIB College of Business, 109-66; 12/30 vs. Rockford; 01/03 vs. Bethany Lutheran
T#43	6	Emory	6-3	01/03 vs. Piedmont
T#43	6	Alvernia	6-3	LOST at T#32 Dickinson, 57-72; won at York (Pa.), 89-55; 12/30 vs. SUNY-Old Westbury; 01/04 at Lebanon Valley
T#43	6	Bowdoin	9-0	IDLE
T#46	5	Springfield	7-2	01/03 vs. Lyndon State; 01/04 vs. TBD
T#46	5	Hampden-Sydney	6-3	def. Washington and Jefferson, 78-65; 12/30 vs. Baruch; 01/02 vs. #5 Williams
T#46	5	Ohio Wesleyan	8-2	won at #15 Marietta, 79-74; 12/30 at #38 Defiance
#49	2	Centre	6-2	def. Thomas More, 85-64; 12/30 at Hope; 12/31 at Cincinnati Christian Col.; 01/04 vs. Sewanee
#50	1	Juniata	8-2	def. Pitt-Greensburg, 93-76; def. Nazareth, 57-56; LOST at Washington and Jefferson, 73-79; 01/03 vs. Valley Forge Chrst.; 01/04 vs. TBD

[John Gleich]

I appreciate your insight and thoughts on the Pointers, nescac1. I think what makes the Pointers stand out is that the whole team can be involved. Instead of everyone standing around watching Tillema create and break down the defense, the players understand and have the ability to get themselves open, giving Tillema options. As a Pointer fan, I will admit we don't have a lot of guys athletic enough to create their own shots (like conference rival Whitewater), but its nice to know our guys are smart enough to get open, instead of "watching the pain dry"!

"Whole team can get involved"

And then Tillema and Hass combine for 65 of Stevens Point's 87 in night two (74.7% of the scoring).

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I appreciate your insight and thoughts on the Pointers, nescac1. I think what makes the Pointers stand out is that the whole team can be involved. Instead of everyone standing around watching Tillema create and break down the defense, the players understand and have the ability to get themselves open, giving Tillema options. As a Pointer fan, I will admit we don't have a lot of guys athletic enough to create their own shots (like conference rival Whitewater), but its nice to know our guys are smart enough to get open, instead of "watching the pain dry"!

"Whole team can get involved"

And then Tillema and Hass combine for 65 of Stevens Point's 87 in night two (74.7% of the scoring).

Yes... they had a ton of the scoring tonight... but the team as a whole played very well. While some didn't get big numbers... guys like Ryf, Ritchay and even Lutz had some huge plays and played outstanding defense. It doesn't show up in the box score, but this is a very deep team with guys who fill their roles well.

[John Gleich]

I appreciate your insight and thoughts on the Pointers, nescac1. I think what makes the Pointers stand out is that the whole team can be involved. Instead of everyone standing around watching Tillema create and break down the defense, the players understand and have the ability to get themselves open, giving Tillema options. As a Pointer fan, I will admit we don't have a lot of guys athletic enough to create their own shots (like conference rival Whitewater), but its nice to know our guys are smart enough to get open, instead of "watching the pain dry"!

"Whole team can get involved"

And then Tillema and Hass combine for 65 of Stevens Point's 87 in night two (74.7% of the scoring).

Yes... they had a ton of the scoring tonight... but the team as a whole played very well. While some didn't get big numbers... guys like Ryf, Ritchay and even Lutz had some huge plays and played outstanding defense. It doesn't show up in the box score, but this is a very deep team with guys who fill their roles well.

I totally agree. I think that Ryf may be the glue that holds everything together. Balls that don't go right from Tillema to a scorer are often going through Ryf on their way to Hass out one of the interior players. He's also a great defender.

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (Complete)

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	618	UW-Stevens Point	12-0	def. #7 St. Thomas, 75-62; won at T#29 Whitworth, 93-75; def. Whitman, 89-79; won at T#39 North Central (Ill.), 66-64; def. UW-La Crosse, 74-61
#2	599	Wooster	11-1	def. Westmont, 53-47; LOST at Arizona Christian, 60-62; def. Thiel, 88-53; def. Hanover, 63-53; def. Denison, 100-75
#3	566	Illinois Wesleyan	11-1	def. Blackburn, 95-61; def. Wilmington, 74-65; won at Hope, 91-83; def. Franklin, 83-67; won at Elmhurst, 104-73
#4	550	Cabrini	9-0	def. Randolph-Macon, 98-91; 01/02 vs. #20 Wesley postponed
#5	529	Williams	10-1	def. Washington College, 84-76; won at Washington and Lee, 60-58; won at T#46 Hampden-Sydney, 70-68
#6	501	Amherst	7-2	LOST at Nova Southeastern, 101-105
#7	397	St. Thomas	7-2	LOST at #1 UW-Stevens Point, 62-75; def. Carleton, 82-52
#8	395	WPI	10-1	won at Becker, 70-64
#9	368	Washington U.	9-2	won at Fontbonne, 87-50; def. #24 Wheaton (Ill.), 84-80; def. Webster, 85-68
#10	358	Virginia Wesleyan	9-2	LOST at #27 Mary Washington, 87-95; def. Ferrum, 105-64; def. North Carolina Wesleyan, 79-71
#11	346	Wittenberg	10-1	won at Thomas More, 87-70; def. Grove City, 79-40; def. Kean, 91-75
#12	338	UW-Whitewater	10-2	def. Alma, 97-69; def. Lawrence, 73-56; won at Augsburg, 89-81; def. Edgewood, 85-53; def. UW-River Falls, 70-41
#13	297	Augustana	11-1	def. Mount St. Joseph, 81-56; won at UW-La Crosse, 71-58; def. UW-Oshkosh, 63-41; def. Carthage, 82-74
#14	259	St. Norbert	9-1	def. Carroll, 76-69; def. Alma, 103-69; def. Viterbo, 70-63; def. Lawrence, 81-68
#15	254	Marietta	9-2	def. Muskingum, 79-70; LOST to T#46 Ohio Wesleyan, 74-79; def. Albion, 76-73
#16	243	Calvin	8-3	won at Redlands, 88-82; LOST at Claremont-Mudd-Scripps, 50-66
#17	206	Guilford	9-3	won at North Carolina Wesleyan, 84-78; LOST at T#32 Dickinson, 75-90; LOST to Birmingham-Southern, 56-72; LOST to Messiah, 72-82
#18	177	Christopher Newport	10-1	def. Salisbury, 56-47; def. Pitt-Greensburg, 76-70; def. Frostburg State, 72-59
#19	173	Middlebury	6-3	LOST at Salve Regina, 69-76
#20	141	Wesley	8-1	won at Ramapo, 76-67; 01/02 at #4 Cabrini postponed; def. Southern Virginia, 67-51
#21	110	SUNY-Purchase	8-0	def. SUNY-Old Westbury, 86-78
#22	90	Eastern Connecticut	8-3	LOST at T#39 North Central (Ill.), 69-70; LOST to Carthage, 58-61; won at Plymouth State, 61-49
#23	86	St. Mary's (Md.)	8-3	won at Susquehanna, 54-51; won at Sacred Heart (P.R.), 61-56; def. Marymount, 92-83
#24	84	Wheaton (Ill.)	8-4	def. Northwestern (Minn.), 69-47; LOST at #9 Washington U., 80-84; won at Millikin, 92-84
#25	71	Colorado College	7-2	won at Lehman, 82-75; LOST at T#34 Babson, 90-93; won at University of Dallas, 78-66

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	50	UW-Stout	8-4	LOST at Millikin, 56-68; LOST to Plattsburgh State, 40-62; def. UW-Eau Claire, 56-45
#27	38	Mary Washington	10-1	def. #10 Virginia Wesleyan, 95-87; won at Randolph, 51-50; def. York (Pa.), 80-60
#28	26	Stevenson	9-2	def. Marywood, 89-65; def. LaGrange, 102-90; LOST at #30 Oglethorpe, 76-77; def. Widener, 105-100
T#29	24	Whitworth	8-3	def. Southwestern, 74-59; LOST to #1 UW-Stevens Point, 75-93; won at T#39 UW-Platteville, 84-77; won at Pacific, 65-52; won at Willamette, 64-53
#30	26	Oglethorpe	11-1	def. Rust, 80-72; def. #28 Stevenson, 77-76
#31	22	Albertus Magnus	7-1	LOST at Central Conn. St., 82-85
T#32	21	Brockport State	6-1	won at Hamilton, 74-62; won at Medaille, 66-52
T#32	21	Dickinson	9-2	won at Catholic, 86-74; def. T#43 Alvernia, 72-57; def. #17 Guilford, 90-75; LOST at Randolph-Macon, 71-77
T#34	14	Babson	9-2	def. #25 Colorado College, 93-90; def. Elms, 84-57
T#34	14	John Carroll	8-3	LOST at Rose-Hulman, 80-85; won at Howard Payne, 99-86; won at Austin, 90-76; LOST at Muskingum, 85-87
#36	17	Richard Stockton	10-1	won at Millsaps, 70-65; def. Gettysburg, 59-53; def. Rutgers-Newark, 77-68
#37	12	Baldwin Wallace	7-5	LOST to Wilmington, 74-87; LOST at Mount Union, 79-90; LOST at Bethany, 58-60; won at Southwestern, 76-62; LOST to Schreiner, 74-77; def. Otterbein, 90-67
#38	11	Defiance	8-3	LOST at Oakland, 66-87; def. Albion, 50-48; LOST to T#46 Ohio Wesleyan, 62-75; LOST at Hanover, 63-67
T#39	10	Texas-Dallas	8-1	won at Sul Ross State, 79-71; def. Louisiana College, 80-61; def. Mississippi College, 71-60
T#39	10	North Central (Ill.)	8-4	def. #22 Eastern Connecticut, 70-69; LOST at Buffalo State, 72-80; LOST to #1 UW-Stevens Point, 64-66; def. North Park, 82-54
T#39	10	UW-Platteville	9-4	won at George Fox, 98-91; LOST to T#29 Whitworth, 77-84; won at UW-Superior, 77-73
#42	7	Dubuque	11-0	def. AIB College of Business, 109-66; def. Rockford, 89-81; def. St. Francis (IL), 79-62; def. Bethany Lutheran, 83-71
T#43	6	Emory	7-3	def. Piedmont, 83-65
T#43	6	Alvernia	7-4	LOST at T#32 Dickinson, 57-72; won at York (Pa.), 89-55; def. SUNY-Old Westbury, 96-76; LOST at Lebanon Valley, 81-89
T#43	6	Bowdoin	9-0	IDLE
T#46	5	Springfield	9-2	def. Lyndon State, 84-77; def. Bridgewater State, 80-66
T#46	5	Hampden-Sydney	7-4	def. Washington and Jefferson, 78-65; def. Baruch, 51-49; LOST to #5 Williams, 68-70
T#46	5	Ohio Wesleyan	9-2	won at #15 Marietta, 79-74; won at #38 Defiance, 75-62
#49	2	Centre	8-3	def. Thomas More, 85-64; LOST at Hope, 68-75; def. Cincinnati Christian, 84-73; def. Sewanee, 48-46
#50	1	Juniata	10-2	def. Pitt-Greensburg, 93-76; def. Nazareth, 57-56; LOST at Washington and Jefferson, 73-79; def. Valley Forge Chrst., 94-48; def. Case Western Reserve, 74-64

[hplc2222]

What are Richard Stocktons chances of getting in the Top 25?

Also, I saw below someone saying a score may have been wrong. The other night I was monitoring all the scores on here and Carthage was playing Augustana, and something must have went haywire, because it was showing Carthage blowing out Augustana by like 30 points, and even had a final score showing Cathage won the game. I even checked the school paqes and it showed that.
The next morning when I got up, the score was totaly different and Augustana had won the game by a lot.

It is probably a good idea to hold off on posting comments about games until the next day, unless you know for sure the score is right.

On another side note-- last night I wanted to watch hoopeville live on here at 7pm est, and I got the commercial at the begining, but no sound or video feed for the show.

I watched part of it today from the archives.

[Titan Q]

Updated Massey...

http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=cb2014&sub=11620