Top 25 talk

[hplc2222]

so if a team like Richard Stockton can run the table and be 23-2 at the end of the regular season,.... despite the haters, theyll be inside the top 25, maybe even ahead of suny purchase for the lead in the atlantic region

this is what i hope for

i have looked at previos final standings

23-2 at the end of a regular season for an njac team, is a top 10 ncaa team.

no?

[sac]

Yeah... probably every year... but it never happens. We are starting to turn the corner on the second round of conference games (for most conferences) and thus the grind of the conference schedule takes its toll. Teams who may have gotten their toughest opponents at home still have to face them on the road... teams who may not do well on the road will trip teams up at home... injuries and classes take their toll, etc., etc., etc. On the men's side the last six weeks of the season are usually full of upsets and strange outcomes... and we aren't even talking about the conference tournaments, yet.

Everyone but the NESCAC you mean.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Thus "for most conferences."

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

this is a Top 25 team, im sorry, but thats the truth

The truth is that:
a) the Top 25 is a fluid, ever changing list that can be argued 100 different ways without being settled. Once you get beyond the top few teams it's not possible to universally state who is a Top 25 team. Without every single team playing one another multiple times you can't rank teams without some subjectivity.
b) the difference between teams that are ranked 18th, 25th, and 33rd for example isn't much... so a single loss may not seem like much but is enough to drop a team quite a ways in that group.
c) the d3hoops poll doesn't mean jack squat... there's no trophy for being ranked... it has no influence on the tournament... and no one will remember who was ranked 22nd in January.

It's clear you're in the minority on the Stockton issue, but that doesn't mean you have to repeat the same comments constantly. I think everybody knows by now that Stockton is 13-2, with close losses on the road. We don't need reminded anymore.

so if a team like Richard Stockton can run the table and be 23-2 at the end of the regular season,.... despite the haters, theyll be inside the top 25

Just because others see the team differently than you does not make them "haters". And yes, I feel fairly confident that if they are 23-2 at the end of the season they'll be ranked in the top 25.


So everyone... can we please get back to d3 basketball as a whole rather than focusing on just Richard Stockton? There are other teams in the Top 25 discussion after all.

[hplc2222]

there are 43 confersnces, 416 d3 teams, stcktons made the final 4 twice in 87 season,.. it would take i estimate 3200 before every team in d3 gets into the final 4

so what are you talking about

[sac]

Bump
How They Fared (Complete)

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	623	UW-Stevens Point	14-0	won at UW-Stout, 61-60; won at UW-Superior, 86-69
#2	576	Wooster	12-1	won at Kenyon, 92-52
#3	571	Illinois Wesleyan	12-2	LOST at #12 Augustana, 73-81; won at North Park, 74-57
#4	563	Cabrini	11-0	def. Cairn, 91-51; def. Centenary (N.J.), 96-72
#5	525	Williams	11-2	won at Trinity (Conn.), 80-60; LOST at #8 Amherst, 73-84
#6	464	WPI	12-1	won at #34 Springfield, 81-61; def. T#36 MIT, 59-47
#7	438	Washington U.	10-2	def. Chicago, 80-69
#8	422	Amherst	10-2	def. T#45 Eastern Connecticut, 94-81; def. Hamilton, 91-73; def. #5 Williams, 84-73
#9	398	Wittenberg	12-1	def. #22 Ohio Wesleyan, 62-60; def. Hiram, 80-79
#10	385	UW-Whitewater	12-2	won at UW-Oshkosh, 86-55; def. UW-Eau Claire, 90-51
#11	375	St. Thomas	9-2	def. St. Olaf, 62-61; won at St. Mary's (Minn.), 87-58
#12	343	Augustana	12-2	def. #3 Illinois Wesleyan, 81-73; LOST at #28 Wheaton (Ill.), 63-66
#13	315	St. Norbert	11-1	def. Beloit, 68-48; won at Monmouth, 81-58
#14	278	Christopher Newport	10-3	LOST to #16 Wesley, 46-64; LOST at Penn State-Harrisburg, 60-63
#15	269	Virginia Wesleyan	10-3	LOST at Bridgewater (Va.), 65-78; def. Randolph, 75-46
#16	213	Wesley	11-1	won at Washington College, 66-51; won at #14 Christopher Newport, 64-46; def. #17 Mary Washington, 68-67
#17	149	Mary Washington	11-2	won at Salisbury, 75-70; LOST at #16 Wesley, 67-68
#18	139	SUNY-Purchase	10-0	won at Mount St. Mary, 81-66; def. Manhattanville, 82-64
#19	135	Marietta	10-3	LOST at Ohio Northern, 73-78; def. Baldwin Wallace, 97-86
#20	103	Messiah	12-0	def. Lycoming, 79-76; def. Alvernia, 89-78
#21	90	St. Mary's (Md.)	10-3	def. Frostburg State, 97-54; won at Southern Virginia, 84-49
#22	77	Ohio Wesleyan	10-3	LOST at #9 Wittenberg, 60-62; won at Allegheny, 76-64
#23	75	Richard Stockton	11-2	def. Rutgers-Camden, 76-61; LOST at Montclair State, 69-70
#24	70	Bowdoin	12-0	def. Bridgewater State, 64-59; def. Connecticut College, 64-47; def. Wesleyan, 63-54
#25	61	Babson	10-3	def. Emerson, 72-44; LOST to #34 Springfield, 81-89

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	57	Albertus Magnus	10-1	def. Norwich, 97-85; won at Rivier, 93-82; won at Suffolk, 94-73
#27	53	Calvin	9-4	won at Alma, 90-82; LOST to Hope, 63-71
#28	37	Wheaton (Ill.)	10-4	def. Elmhurst, 93-68; def. #12 Augustana, 66-63
#29	35	Oglethorpe	13-1	won at Hendrix, 70-69; won at Rhodes, 73-72
#30	34	Whitworth	10-3	def. Pacific Lutheran, 76-73; def. Puget Sound, 60-49
#31	31	Brockport State	8-1	won at Potsdam State, 75-57; won at Plattsburgh State, 85-78
#32	30	Middlebury	7-5	LOST to Plattsburgh State, 47-63; LOST to Bates, 61-64; def. Tufts, 80-66
#33	22	Colorado College	9-2	def. Austin, 68-53; def. Centenary (La.), 79-71
#34	21	Springfield	10-3	LOST to #6 WPI, 61-81; won at #25 Babson, 89-81
#35	16	Dickinson	11-2	def. Washington College, 78-66; won at Ursinus, 94-70
T#36	14	Birmingham-Southern	7-5	LOST at T#38 Emory, 61-76; LOST at Sewanee, 54-58; LOST at Centre, 71-85
T#36	14	MIT	9-3	def. Clark, 63-36; LOST at #6 WPI, 47-59
T#38	12	Staten Island	10-2	def. Lehman, 95-62; won at Medgar Evers, 113-79
T#38	12	Emory	9-3	def. T#36 Birmingham-Southern, 76-61; def. Rochester, 77-54
T#40	10	DePauw	10-3	won at Kenyon, 62-54
T#40	10	Texas-Dallas	10-1	won at LeTourneau, 80-57; won at East Texas Baptist, 84-72
T#40	10	William Paterson	11-2	won at Kean, 75-71; def. New Jersey City, 69-66
T#40	10	Stevenson	10-3	LOST at Albright, 82-89; def. Lebanon Valley, 86-72
#44	8	Dubuque	13-0	def. Wartburg, 67-63; won at Central, 74-67
T#45	1	Eastern Connecticut	9-4	LOST at #8 Amherst, 81-94; def. Mass-Boston, 81-60
T#45	1	St. Vincent	12-2	def. Thiel, 76-69; won at Bethany, 83-77
T#45	1	Guilford	10-3	won at Bridgewater (Va.), 69-60

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

sac - that was last week's results...

[hplc2222]

bump, thats not the last actual vote, cause stockton was 36, and middlebery wasnt even in it

[hplc2222]

The real Top 25

1 UW Stevens Point------------16-0
2  Wooster----------------------15-1
3 Cabrini------------------------13-0
4  Illinoins Wesleyan-----------14-2
5 WPI---------------------------13-1
6 Amherst----------------------13-2
7 UW Whitewater--------------14-2
8 Wesley----------------------- 13-1
9 Williams----------------------13-2
10 St Thomas------------------12-2
11 Messiah---------------------13-1
12 St Norbert------------------13-1
13 Washington U--------------12-2 (assuming they win sunday for 12th win)
14 Augustana------------------14-2
15 Suny Purchase-------------12-0
16 Bowdoin--------------------13-1
17 Mary Washington----------13-2
18 Albertus Magnus-----------12-1
19 Dickinson------------------ 13-2
20 Richard Stockton---------- 13-2
21 Oglethorpe-----------------14-1
22 Wittenberg-----------------12-3
23 Brockport State------------11-1
24 Virginia Wesleyan----------12-3
25 Ohio Wesleyan-------------12-3

how I came to determine it
31 teams with no more than 2 losses
(19 are in Top 25 last vote)
undefeated
UW Stevens Point-----------16-0----#1
Cabrini --------------------------13-0----#3
SUNY Purchase------------ 12-0---#17
Dubuque----------------------- 15-0--- #40         
Husson------------------------- 13-0----no votes

1 loss
Wooster----------------------- 15-1-----#2         
WPI -----------------------------13-1 -----#5
St Norbert-------------------- 13-1-----#12
Wesley------------------------ 13-1 ----#14   
Messiah----------------------- 13-1---- #15       
Bowdoin----------------------- 13-1-----#19       
Albertus Magnus---------- -12-1--- #23 
Oglethorpe------------------- 14-1------#24         
Brockport State------------ 11-1-----#28         
Texas Dallas---------------- 12-1------#35   

2 loss
Illinois Wesleyan----------- 14-2---  #4           
Amherst----------------------- 13-2---- #6             
Washington U---------------12-2---- #7           
UW  Whitewater------------ 14-2--- #8             
Williams---------------------- -13-2-----#10           
St Thomas------------------- 12-2----#11           
Augustana------------------- 14-2----#13           
Mary Wahington----------- 13-2-----#20
Dickinson--------------------- 13-2-----#33
Richard Stockton----------- 13-2-  -#36
St Vincent---------------------14-2--- #42           
Staten Island---------------- 12-2 -- no votes
Mount Union----------------- 12-2 ---no votes
Genesco St-------------------10-2 --- no votes       
Hilbert-------------------------- 12-2 ---no votes
Penn State Behrend------ 12-2 -  no votes

teams with 3 or more losses that received votes last vote
09   Wittenberg-------------------12-3
16   St. Mary's (Md.)-----------11-4  
18   Virginia Wesleyan--------12-3  
21   Wheaton (Ill.)---------------10-6               
22   Ohio Wesleyan------------12-3 
25   Colorado College----------10-3    
26  Christopher Newport -----11-4 
27  Whitworth--------------------11-4     
29  Marietta-----------------------11-4   
30  Emory--------------------------10-4        
31  DePauw ----------------------11-4   
32  William Paterson----------12-3   
34  Springfield--------------------11-4
37 NYU----------------------------- 11-3  
38  Hope----------------------------9-6
39  Babson------------------------11-4
41  Calvin--------------------------11-4
43  UW-Platteville--------------11-5       
44  Oswego State--------------10-4       
45  Stevenson-------------------12-3

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (Complete)

Stevenson/Lycoming went final just moments ago ...

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	623	UW-Stevens Point	16-0	def. UW-Oshkosh, 58-30; def. UW-River Falls, 65-48
#2	593	Wooster	14-1	def. Hiram, 94-71; won at #9 Wittenberg, 69-62
#3	578	Cabrini	13-0	won at Immaculata, 84-62; def. Rosemont, 92-78
#4	496	Illinois Wesleyan	14-2	won at Millikin, 75-57; def. #21 Wheaton (Ill.), 78-71
#5	486	WPI	14-1	def. #39 Babson, 66-62; won at Emerson, 64-50
#6	475	Amherst	13-2	won at Wesleyan, 76-62; won at Tufts, 75-67; won at Bates, 82-71
#7	473	Washington U.	12-2	def. Brandeis, 82-72; def. #37 New York University, 81-65
#8	441	UW-Whitewater	14-2	def. #43 UW-Platteville, 77-58; def. UW-Superior, 97-52
#9	430	Wittenberg	12-3	LOST at #31 DePauw, 46-72; LOST to #2 Wooster, 62-69
#10	423	Williams	13-2	def. #19 Bowdoin, 69-64; def. Colby, 69-62
#11	381	St. Thomas	12-2	won at Bethel, 81-68; def. Gustavus Adolphus, 61-50; def. Concordia-Moorhead, 76-60
#12	350	St. Norbert	13-1	def. Ripon, 102-62; won at Illinois College, 76-53
#13	319	Augustana	14-2	won at North Central (Ill.), 62-50; def. North Park, 73-58
#14	272	Wesley	13-1	def. Salisbury, 68-62; won at #16 St. Mary's (Md.), 75-72
#15	233	Messiah	13-1	LOST at T#44 Stevenson, 99-103; def. Arcadia, 78-70
#16	175	St. Mary's (Md.)	11-4	won at York (Pa.), 69-51; LOST to #14 Wesley, 72-75
#17	154	SUNY-Purchase	12-0	won at SUNY-Maritime, 84-46; def. NYU-Poly, 94-70
#18	147	Virginia Wesleyan	12-3	won at Hampden-Sydney, 79-73; def. Guilford, 84-59
#19	119	Bowdoin	13-1	LOST at #10 Williams, 64-69; won at Hamilton, 85-66
#20	106	Mary Washington	13-2	def. #26 Christopher Newport, 76-65; def. Penn State-Harrisburg, 88-47
#21	98	Wheaton (Ill.)	10-6	LOST at Carthage, 62-67; LOST at #4 Illinois Wesleyan, 71-78
#22	97	Ohio Wesleyan	12-3	def. Wabash, 80-62; won at #31 DePauw, 75-64
#23	96	Albertus Magnus	12-1	def. Anna Maria, 100-66; def. St. Joseph's (Maine), 86-78
#24	92	Oglethorpe	14-1	def. Berry, 76-61
#25	67	Colorado College	10-3	LOST at Schreiner, 58-71; won at Texas Lutheran, 97-85

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	65	Christopher Newport	11-4	LOST at #20 Mary Washington, 65-76; def. Marymount, 76-69
#27	59	Whitworth	11-4	LOST at George Fox, 85-98; won at Linfield, 83-59
T#28	40	Brockport State	11-1	def. Fredonia State, 97-47; def. T#44 Oswego State, 78-64; won at Cortland State, 77-65
T#28	40	Marietta	11-4	LOST at Mount Union, 72-73; won at John Carroll, 78-70
#30	28	Emory	10-4	LOST to Carnegie Mellon, 83-95; def. Case Western Reserve, 102-76
#31	27	DePauw	11-4	def. #9 Wittenberg, 72-46; LOST to #22 Ohio Wesleyan, 64-75
#32	23	William Paterson	12-3	LOST to Ramapo, 96-99; won at Rutgers-Camden, 83-60
#33	21	Dickinson	13-2	def. Johns Hopkins, 75-65; won at Haverford, 77-72
#34	18	Springfield	11-4	def. Wheaton (Mass.), 71-58; LOST at MIT, 51-55
#35	16	Texas-Dallas	12-1	def. Mary Hardin-Baylor, 70-58; def. Concordia (Texas), 95-49
#36	14	Richard Stockton	13-2	def. Rowan, 88-59; won at Ramapo, 90-69
#37	10	New York University	11-3	LOST at Chicago, 50-58; LOST at #7 Washington U., 65-81
#38	8	Hope	9-6	LOST at Albion, 49-67; def. Olivet, 80-72
#39	7	Babson	11-4	LOST at #5 WPI, 62-66; won at Wheaton (Mass.), 80-59
T#40	6	Dubuque	15-0	def. Luther, 79-69; def. Buena Vista, 65-63
T#40	6	Calvin	11-4	def. Adrian, 78-54; won at Kalamazoo, 90-72
#42	5	St. Vincent	14-2	won at Geneva, 90-48; def. Thomas More, 75-61
#43	4	UW-Platteville	11-5	LOST at #8 UW-Whitewater, 58-77; def. UW-La Crosse, 80-79
T#44	2	Oswego State	10-5	LOST to New Paltz State, 75-83; LOST at T#28 Brockport State, 64-78; LOST to Geneseo State, 62-66
T#44	2	Stevenson	12-3	def. #15 Messiah, 103-99; won at Lycoming, 79-74

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

there are 43 confersnces, 416 d3 teams, stcktons made the final 4 twice in 87 season,.. it would take i estimate 3200 before every team in d3 gets into the final 4

so what are you talking about

I think the better question is what are you talking about... to get 416 teams each to the final four once it would take 104 years... 104 years x 4 teams each year = 416

The real Top 25 hplc2222's Top 25

Fixed it for you

[sac]

sac - that was last week's results...

for some reason, can't think why, it was easy for them to get lost.

[Just Bill]

So everyone... can we please get back to d3 basketball as a whole rather than focusing on just Richard Stockton? There are other teams in the Top 25 discussion after all.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but generally the rule of etiquette on these boards has always been don't criticize someone else's choice of topic without presenting your own.

So what do you want to talk about?

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

So everyone... can we please get back to d3 basketball as a whole rather than focusing on just Richard Stockton? There are other teams in the Top 25 discussion after all.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but generally the rule of etiquette on these boards has always been don't criticize someone else's choice of topic without presenting your own.

So what do you want to talk about?

It's not that I'm criticizing the choice of topic (Stockton is a team in the Top 25 discussion after all [probably about 28th or 29th in the next poll I'd guess])... I just feel like it's run it's course for now. You can only go over the same thing so many times before you're beating a dead horse.

As to other topics... probably not much change will happen in the top half (other than Witt dropping).
How far will they fall after losing to two good teams?
If/when could Husson start getting votes if they stay unbeaten?
Of course I'd love some HCAC discussion... but the best we've got is Rose-Hulman who is 12-3. I don't see them getting any votes quite yet. Maybe in a couple weeks if they keep winning they'll sneak onto a couple ballots.

[David Collinge]

I did look at who teams play and who they lost to, especialy home court loses

here are some example

Colorado College 10-3 lost at Northern Colorado 96-57 blown out [...]

Northern Colorado is a D1 scholarship program, currently leading the Big Sky Conference and sporting an overall record of 11-4 which includes a win at Kansas State (14-4). And yes, they blew out the Tigers in Greeley.