Top 25 talk

[smedindy]

I know they've lost seven games already, but I would be absolutely terrified to play Mary Hardin-Baylor right now.  Best seven loss team in d3, I think.

I believe that the established precedent on this board is that, if you are going to make such a statement, you must follow it up with detailed statistics.  Please begin with a list of all teams in D3 with 7 losses, and your analysis of the quality of those losses.  You can then move on to telling us why MHB deserves to be considered the best of that group. (And perhaps even better than some of the six- and five-loss teams.  We'll need a list of those, too.)  If, at some point, you feel obliged to post increasingly incoherent comments, and/or post in all caps, we would certainly understand.

Using Massey, here are the best X loss teams in the D-3 Universe:

0 - UW - SP
1 - Wooster
2 - Illinois Wesleyan
3 - UW - Whitewater
4 - Randolph Macon
5 - Wilmington
6 - Wheaton  (IL)
7 - Hope
8 - Schreiner
9 - Ohio Northern
10 - Salisbury St.
11- Heidelberg
12 - Pacific Luthern
13 - Washington (MD)
14 - Rust
15 - North Park
16 - D'Youville
17 - UC Santa Cruz

YMMV. Consult your dealer for options and accessories. If symptoms persist, treat with Wild Turkey and hammer.

Hope has 6 losses, Massey is incorrectly counting their exhibition loss to Grand Valley State.

Not incorrect in Massey's universe, since it's a game that counted for GVSU.

It did not count for GVSU either, clearly marked as exhibition
http://www.gvsulakers.com/sports/m-baskbl/sched/grva-m-baskbl-sched.html

So much for that. I'll go dig a hole and sit in it now...

[hplc2222]

If Stockton losses to TCNJ wednesday, i'll eat my socks in a stew. ok? And that could be a tricky game on the road, having just got beat up in the william paterson game.

If you watched the william paterson-stockton game on saturday---- players from both teams were on the floor almost every possession-- diving, falling backwards, slipping on the floor-- giving it all they had

Stockton proved they are the tuffer team by beating them by 24 points

thats one aspect the voters fail to take into consideration - how tuff the njac plays its games inside and on the run

this isnt the world of grinnell if you will

it is a tuff conference

[smedindy]

If Stockton losses to TCNJ wednesday, i'll eat my socks in a stew. ok? And that could be a tricky game on the road, having just got beat up in the william paterson game.

If you watched the william paterson-stockton game on saturday---- players from both teams were on the floor almost every possession-- diving, falling backwards, slipping on the floor-- giving it all they had

Stockton proved they are the tuffer team by beating them by 24 points

thats one aspect the voters fail to take into consideration - how tuff the njac plays its games inside and on the run

this isnt the world of grinnell if you will

it is a tuff conference

Almost every conference is internally tough  - since teams know each other inside and out.

[KnightSlappy]

I know they've lost seven games already, but I would be absolutely terrified to play Mary Hardin-Baylor right now.  Best seven loss team in d3, I think.

I believe that the established precedent on this board is that, if you are going to make such a statement, you must follow it up with detailed statistics.  Please begin with a list of all teams in D3 with 7 losses, and your analysis of the quality of those losses.  You can then move on to telling us why MHB deserves to be considered the best of that group. (And perhaps even better than some of the six- and five-loss teams.  We'll need a list of those, too.)  If, at some point, you feel obliged to post increasingly incoherent comments, and/or post in all caps, we would certainly understand.

Using Massey, here are the best X loss teams in the D-3 Universe:

0 - UW - SP
1 - Wooster
2 - Illinois Wesleyan
3 - UW - Whitewater
4 - Randolph Macon
5 - Wilmington
6 - Wheaton  (IL)
7 - Hope
8 - Schreiner
9 - Ohio Northern
10 - Salisbury St.
11- Heidelberg
12 - Pacific Luthern
13 - Washington (MD)
14 - Rust
15 - North Park
16 - D'Youville
17 - UC Santa Cruz

YMMV. Consult your dealer for options and accessories. If symptoms persist, treat with Wild Turkey and hammer.

Hope has 6 losses, Massey is incorrectly counting their exhibition loss to Grand Valley State.

Not incorrect in Massey's universe, since it's a game that counted for GVSU.

It did not count for GVSU either, clearly marked as exhibition
http://www.gvsulakers.com/sports/m-baskbl/sched/grva-m-baskbl-sched.html

Have you emailed him about this? He's usually very quick to correct errors like this.

[hplc2222]

ii'll agree withy that, but the games i have watched this year, the njac teams take the worse physical abuse, a lot of it self imposed,

reminds of something i saw on the larry bird video--- someone told bird if he keeps diving for balls and moping the floor with his body, he wont be physicaly able to play in a few years anymore.

the njac only plays run and gun when teams give it to them.

for the most part the games can be a blood bath physicaly

and this stockton team plays defense and rebounds like that,

but another point is i think they only committed 3 fouls the entire 2nd half against william paterson

so during that 4-5 days off cause of the snow in between, the coach coached them up to play tuff, but not to foul william paterson

this takes extreme discipline, and the players pulled it off

stockton is a top 25 team in reality

just needs more ti9me to prove it i guess

[magicman]

I just ran all the numbers, and it turns out that Richard Stockton is the best team in D3. Also, it's looking like Rust will end up with all of the All-Americans.

There has to be a slight error there Rust should only have 4 All-Americans.

[hplc2222]

I guess the only way Stockton can prove it would be to win out the regular season, get to 22-3, then win the NJAC tourney ( I think the NJAC has a bye, not every team gets in) so 2 more wins for 24-3, then go ionto the NCAA tourney and win a couple games.

suny purchase is the front runner in the region i guess?

then this is what i am more interested in knowing.......

i know there are 8 regions, but teams must cross over regions in the first 2 rounds of the tourney no

how many sites are there for the first 2 rounds , 8?

a site for each of the 8 regions?

can someone explain how that works?

i am more interested in learning that than i am about the top 25 voting works

in other words, stockton would need to be no lower than a 4 seed in the national bracket to get a favorable game i think

but i assume they do it like division 1 and even out the brackets as certain areas of the nation are top loaded with top teams?

[Greek Tragedy]

I'm glad you are finally talking about something else besides just RS. Expand your knowledge, grasshopper!

D3 tourney is nothing like D1. No seeding, per say. They don't really even out the brackets. There is a mileage rule they try to go by. The less flights the better.

Others can fill you in more. Typing on my phone sucks (yes, real world problem!)

[hplc2222]

Stocktons 2009 championship run --- not exactly a whos who of D3

unless my memory is wrong, the first 2 games were at stockton, maybe the first 4

Rensselaer is way up by Albany, at least a 5 hour to 6 hour drive from Galloway down by AC

I think if Stockton, or whoever comes out of the NJAC or the Atlantic region, gets favorable games, anyone can make a run at the title--- going from what happened in 2009

no?

Stockton 79, Rensselaer 65
Stockton 95, Gwynedd-Mercy 88
Stockton 71, St. Lawrence 68
Stockton 103, Farmingdale State 60
Stockton 62, Franklin & Marshall 58
Washington-St. Louis 61, Stockton 52

[John Gleich]

I guess the only way Stockton can prove it would be to win out the regular season, get to 22-3, then win the NJAC tourney ( I think the NJAC has a bye, not every team gets in) so 2 more wins for 24-3, then go ionto the NCAA tourney and win a couple games.

This is what people have been saying, yes.

In fact...

That brings me to my final point.

4) Similar to #1, it's just a poll. If you think you should be ranked, but you're not, then win the games on your schedule and play into a ranking. That's the only way that any team will become ranked. Prove that you're one of the top 6% in the land.

When it gets down to it, talk is cheap. Just go out and play and prove who is the better team. If it's you, great. If it isn't you, learn from it, get better, and hope to have a chance at seeing that team (or better teams) down the line... and do what you need to do to win.

[hplc2222]

i'll agree with that,..... right now there are 37 teams with no more than 3 losses going into todays games

anyone of those teams, but lets take the bubble teams- could win out, it doesnt have to be stockton, it could be anyone

centre can win out for example

i just am rooting for stockton cause i spent 4 years there and graduated from there

but i like to root for any under dog in the end from the njac or atlantic region

[John Gleich]

Stocktons 2009 championship run --- not exactly a whos who of D3

unless my memory is wrong, the first 2 games were at stockton, maybe the first 4

Rensselaer is way up by Albany, at least a 5 hour to 6 hour drive from Galloway down by AC

I think if Stockton, or whoever comes out of the NJAC or the Atlantic region, gets favorable games, anyone can make a run at the title--- going from what happened in 2009

no?

Stockton 79, Rensselaer 65
Stockton 95, Gwynedd-Mercy 88
Stockton 71, St. Lawrence 68
Stockton 103, Farmingdale State 60
Stockton 62, Franklin & Marshall 58
Washington-St. Louis 61, Stockton 52

With all due respect... nobody cares about 2009 anymore.

UWSP isn't ranked #1 because of the 2010, 2005, and 2004 national championships (even though Tyler Tillema was on the 2010 team).

[hplc2222]

since you brought that up, uwsp has made the ncaa tourney how many times 13?

so has stockton

1987- final 4, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997, 1999, 2008, 2009 finals, 2011

of those 13 appearances they were only ousted in the first round 3 times-- and have had the same head coach the entire time to this day -- a head coach with the most wins in the njac history

[John Gleich]

For info about how the D3 tournament works, look here:

http://d3hoops.com/interactive/faq/ncaatournament

In short:

62 teams, which come from:

Pool A: 42 bids - 41 conference tournament winners (plus UAA reg season champ)
Pool B: 1 bid - best team from conferences who don't get a Pool A bid
Pool C: 19 bids - 19 at-large teams

So, unless you're one of the 42 who win their conference's automatic bid, you've got to be selected
by the national committee.


How are teams selected? Glad you asked.  Read the FAQ:

What does the NCAA use to select and seed teams into the tournament?

These are the selection (and seeding) criteria:

The following primary criteria (not in priority order) will be reviewed:
• Win-loss percentage against regional opponents.
• Strength-of-schedule (only contests versus regional competition).
- Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OWP) (weighted 2/3).
- Opponents' Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OOWP) (weighted 1/3).
- Add OWP and OOWP to give total strength of schedule
- See more info on men's SOS below
• In-region head-to-head competition.
• In-region results versus common regional opponents.
• In-region results versus regionally ranked teams.
Note:
• Once an opponent is listed in a regional ranking, it is considered ranked throughout the process. (Once ranked, always ranked.)
• Conference postseason contests are included.
• Contests versus provisional and reclassifying members in their third and fourth years shall count in the primary criteria. Provisional and reclassifying members shall remain ineligible for rankings and selection.

If the evaluation of the primary criteria does not result in a decision by the committee, the following secondary criteria (for ranking and selections) will be evaluated:
• Out-of-region head-to-head competition.
• Overall Division III win-loss percentage.
• Results versus common non Division III opponents.
• Results versus all Division III ranked teams.
• Overall win-loss percentage.
• Results versus all common opponents.
• Overall DIII Strength of Schedule.
Additionally, input is provided by regional advisory committees for consideration by the Division III men's and women's basketball committees. In order to be considered for selection for Pools B or C, an institution must play at least 50 percent of its competition against Division III in-region opponents.

Coaches' polls and/or any other outside polls or rankings are not used as a selection criterion by the basketball committee for selection purposes.

Here's the end all with it.

I think that part of the reason why you want Richard Stockton to be ranked is that you believe that their ranking will in some way affect their selection in the NCAA tournament. This is not true.

The D3hoops.com Top 25 poll isn't one of the criteria.

So, even though Amherst was the #2 ranked team going into the tournament, it didn't have anything to do with their selection. Their selection was because they won the NESCAC conference tournament.

Same with their Championship opponent, Mary Hardin-Baylor. Though they were receiving votes in the final regular season poll (they recieved 9 poll points, 5th most in the ORV category), they got into the tournament by winning their conference tournament as well.

[gordonmann]

By my count, UW-Stevens Point has been in the NCAA tournament 12 times with record of 28-9 and three national championships (2004, 2006 and 2010).

Richard Stockton has been in the NCAA tournament 13 times with a record of 22-15 and two Final Four appearances (1987 when they were called Stockton State and 2009).