Top 25 talk

[smedindy]

The tournament will take care of any poll issues. Win or go home.

[hplc2222]

i guess they played 2 conselation games ? otherwise 15 losses in 13 appearances doesnt make any sense.

do they still do that? have conselation games in the first 2 rounds for the gyms/arenas hosting?

considering there are 416 teams in D3  basketball, Stockton has done fairly well

not a Stevens Point, but well, for what they are, no?

i said a few weeks ago or so, it would take three thousand two hundred years before every D3 team makes a final 4, Stocktons already done it twice

understand where I am coming from

[John Gleich]

since you brought that up, uwsp has made the ncaa tourney how many times 13?

so has stockton

1987- final 4, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997, 1999, 2008, 2009 finals, 2011

of those 13 appearances they were only ousted in the first round 3 times-- and have had the same head coach the entire time to this day -- a head coach with the most wins in the njac history

The WIAC as a conference came to be called the WIAC starting in 1997, when they combined the men's conference, the WSUC (Wisconsin State University Conference) and the WWIAC (Wisconsin Women's Intercollegiate Athletic Conference) to become the WIAC and jump from the NAIA to NCAA DIII.

Prior to 1997, individual programs had dual membership in NAIA and NCAA D-III (most notably Whitewater and Platteville, who won national championships in 84 & 89, and 91 & 95, respectively, before the conference switched over.

i guess they played 2 conselation games ? otherwise 15 losses in 13 appearances doesnt make any sense.

Yes, back in the 80's (and I don't know when they switched it), 4 teams would go to a regional for the first two rounds. There would be 2 games... and winners would take on winners, losers would take on losers. So, it would be possible to make it to a regional and come home with 2 losses.

do they still do that? have conselation games in the first 2 rounds for the gyms/arenas hosting?

Nope, not since the 80's (ish). Ask Gregory Sager, he likely knows.

considering there are 416 teams in D3  basketball, Stockton has done fairly well

Absolutely. As has been said here many times, the NJAC has historically been a power conference. But since Stockton's run in 2009, they haven't won a single NCAA tournament game.

not a Stevens Point, but well, for what they are, no?

Well, there's only one Stevens Point, what can I say?

i said a few weeks ago or so, it would three thousand two hundred years before every D3 team makes a final 4, Stocktons already done it twice

undferstand where I am coming from

The takeaway here is, though, that past successes aren't a determining factor in future results, especially when you're going between seasons. And even within a season, any team *COULD* lose to any other team, at any time.

As they say, that's why ya play the games.

[hplc2222]

Thats when I went to Stockton, when they were called Stockton State, September of 84 to May of 88. Back than TCNJ was Trenton State and a great team, Rowan was Glassboro, New Jersey City was Jersey City State College and also a dominant team.

To this day, if you look at the web site that has the computer rankings, they list Jersey City with zero stats on it for the season, no wins, no losses, nothing, no ranking, ....

I emailed the website to inform them of this flaw, that they are now known as New Jersey City, months ago,... have failed to fix it -- cause that actualy would affect the computer math, even if slightly, no?

The same sight also has mixed up Alfred with Alfred State, .. still not fixed - which is a major flaw cause Alfred is pretty good, and Alfred State cant win a game



but anyway

[hplc2222]

Here is Stocktons post season - post conference tourney, post season  records
Stockton has had the same head coach since the start of of the 85/86 season, except for 94/95 when he had a medical issue

my poin t, if you look at it, is that if Stockton is close, they deserve the benefit of the doubt, because of the head coach being the common demoninator

they dont get ousted in first rounds often


POSTSEASON RESULTS
1984 ECAC Tournament
Moravian 59, Stockton 57

1986 ECAC Tournament
Stony Brook 75, Stockton 54

1987 NCAA Tournament
Stockton 67, Roanoke 64
Stockton 88, Cal St.-Stanislaus 80
Stockton 68, Widener 65 (OT)
Clark 77, Stockton 70
Wittenberg 82, Stockton 80 (OT)

1988 NCAA Tournament
Emory & Henry 72, Stockton 59
Stockton 72, Bridgewater 70

1989 NCAA Tournament
Shenendoah 74, Stockton 64

1990 NCAA Tournament
Stockton 100, Hunter 84
Stockton 73, Jersey City St. 71
Washington 80, Stockton 79
Johns Hopkins 78, Stockton 74

1991 ECAC Tournament
Stockton 62, Manhattanville 61
Stockton 73, Jersey City St. 70
Medgar Evers 103, Stockton 94

1992 NCAA Tournament
Kean 65, Stockton 60

1993 NCAA Tournament
Stockton 106, Catholic 91
Rowan 84, Stockton 61

1994 NCAA Tournament
Stockton 74, NJIT 69
Albany 60, Stockton 54

1995 ECAC Tournament
Stockton 89, FDU-Madison 69
Stockton 78, New Paltz 57
Kean 92, Stockton 71

1996 NCAA Tournament
Stockton 80, Mt. St. Vincent 54
Stockton 81, NYU 77 (OT)
Stockton 95, Anna Maria 88
Rowan 98, Stockton 70

1997 NCAA Tournament
Stockton 78, York 71
Stockton 64, William Paterson 60
Williams 85, Stockton 61
Stockton 62, New Jersey City 56
Stockton 60, Wilkes 50
William Paterson 50, Stockton 49

2000 ECAC Tournament
Stockton 77, Staten Island 68
Stockton 77, Vassar 48
Montclair State 78, Stockton 75 (OT)

2001 ECAC Tournament
Stockton 60, Baruch 58
New Jersey City 68, Stockton 63

2002 ECAC Tournament
Stockton 72, Lehman 70
Ramapo 81, Stockton 78

2003 ECAC Tournament
Manhattanville 67, Stockton 64

2004 ECAC Tournament
Stockton 81, Mt. St. Mary (NY) 79 (OT)
NYU 70, Stockton 66

2005 ECAC Tournament
Stockton 79, Manhattanville 78
Stockton 63, Rutgers-Newark 56
Kean 66, Stockton 57

2006 ECAC Tournament
Stockton 80, Lehman 66
New Jersey City 73, Stockton 56

2007 ECAC Tournament
Stockton 78, Old Westbury 73
Stockton 80, New Jersey City 69
NYU 58, Stockton 55

2008 NCAA Tournament
Stockton 84, Immaculata 75 (OT)
Stockton 78, Rhode Island College 70
Amherst 85, Stockton 77

2009 NCAA Tournament
Stockton 79, Rensselaer 65
Stockton 95, Gwynedd-Mercy 88
Stockton 71, St. Lawrence 68
Stockton 103, Farmingdale State 60
Stockton 62, Franklin & Marshall 58
Washington-St. Louis 61, Stockton 52

2010 NCAA Tournament
Virginia Wesleyan 85, Stockton 82

2011 ECAC Tournament
Mount St. Mary (NY) 85, Stockton 80

2012 ECAC Tournament
Stockton 85, Medgar Evers 73
Brooklyn 57, Stockton 53

2013 ECAC Tournament
Stockton 79, Sage 69
Stockton 67, John Jay 53
Old Westbury 74, Stockton 73

NCAA Tournament: 22-15 (.595)
ECAC Tournament: 17-15 (.531)

[smedindy]

Ok, is it just me or can we move a lot of this Stockton stuff to the NJAC board? I mean, I can appreciate fandom but I want to talk about more of the D3 Universe here....

[hplc2222]

its ok, i had to get it out, because the vote is coming out tonight. I need Stockton to be in the Top 30.

smed-- what we were talking about was/is the NCAA tourney and how regions are set up for home games , for favorible game, and things like this, within the regions

but i tie it into the Top 25,. even though someone told me one has nothing to do with the other

[John Gleich]

its ok, i had to get it out, because the vote is coming out tonight. I need Stockton to be in the Top 30.

Why?

but i tie it into the Top 25,. even though someone told me one has nothing to do with the other

This is 100% correct.

[hplc2222]

theres the catch 22 isnt it?? is past post season ncaa tourney results dont matter, or as i have been whipped by people telling me , have nothing to do with the top 25

why are other people on here stating the exact opposite,... fully stating and whiping me, saying that past post season results DO MEAN SOMETHING , as far as the rankings go

see my point

catch 22

they want it both ways

so i had to put up stocktons record,.. and history , basically all under the same head colach for the past 30 years

[Pat Coleman]

Ranking does not lead to postseason seeding.
Postseason success (or more importantly, lack of utter postseason debacles) help in future ranking.

[hplc2222]

well, there are 19 at large bids, the people that pick those, dont consider the rankings,  reprase is, the actualy rankings, make 50 teams got votes after all the conference tourneys were done, by default the rankings, where you actualy are in wins-losses, wouldnt matter?

so now we come full circle to past - post season records

Stockton was the runner up last year in the ECAC,... which could be considered as the D3 version of the NIT,...

a precursor if you will, for the NCAA for the next season

all i am saying is, i have made an arguement for the benefit of the doubt, about stockton,....

but no one on here sinc e i have been on, has made an argument for any other bubble team

i guess for now i am the SALT that goes into the drink

[John Gleich]

theres the catch 22 isnt it?? is past post season ncaa tourney results dont matter, or as i have been whipped by people telling me , have nothing to do with the top 25

why are other people on here stating the exact opposite,... fully stating and whiping me, saying that past post season results DO MEAN SOMETHING , as far as the rankings go

see my point

catch 22

they want it both ways

so i had to put up stocktons record,.. and history , basically all under the same head colach for the past 30 years

There's no Catch 22 (however, the book is a fun read if you haven't read it).

The d3hoops.com Top 25 has no bearing whatsoever on the selection of teams for the NCAA tournament. The coach doesn't matter. Who the players are (i.e. even if they do have awesome names like Bloochy Magliore did last year for Staten Island) doesn't matter.

The only things that matter are:

1) If you win your conference's automatic bid. For the NJAC, that means winning the conference tournament.

2) If you don't win the conference tournament, then you have to get an at-large bid, based on the criteria that I posted below:

• Win-loss percentage against regional opponents.
• Strength-of-schedule (only contests versus regional competition).
• In-region head-to-head competition.
• In-region results versus common regional opponents.
• In-region results versus regionally ranked teams.


That's it. Fin. End of story.

[Pat Coleman]

Runner-up in one region of the ECAC tournament. There are FOUR ECAC tournaments, so it's like being No. 8 among East Coast non-NESCAC teams that didn't make the tournament. ECAC tournament isn't what it used to be.

No, nobody else has made a hundred posts arguing.

[hplc2222]

But past past post season matters in top 25 rankings, ... i had had that drilled into my head on this website

when is the last time a team ranked in the Top 25 just before tourney selection didnt get in the ncaa tourney?

see my point?
never probably

[sac]

bump


How They Fared (Complete)

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	622	UW-Stevens Point	18-0	won at UW-Platteville, 76-61; won at UW-La Crosse, 91-72
#2	594	Wooster	15-2	def. Allegheny, 73-68; LOST at #35 DePauw, 74-78
#3	581	Cabrini	16-0	def. Marywood, 82-68; def. Neumann, 94-68; won at Keystone, 94-84
#4	513	Illinois Wesleyan	15-3	def. North Central (Ill.), 72-57; LOST at T#44 Carthage, 73-80
#5	501	WPI	16-1	def. Clark, 81-69; won at Wheaton (Mass.), 83-69
#6	494	Amherst	15-2	won at #9 Williams, 82-70; won at Trinity (Conn.), 67-61
#7	460	UW-Whitewater	15-3	LOST at UW-La Crosse, 83-88; won at UW-River Falls, 62-42
#8	447	Washington U.	14-2	won at Case Western Reserve, 77-64; won at Carnegie Mellon, 94-81
#9	424	Williams	14-3	LOST to #6 Amherst, 70-82; def. Hamilton, 88-68
#10	395	St. Thomas	13-3	LOST at St. John's, 69-77; def. #34 Augsburg, 82-70
#11	373	St. Norbert	15-1	won at Beloit, 76-56; def. Cornell, 84-62
#12	331	Wesley	15-1	won at Penn State-Harrisburg, 66-63; won at Southern Virginia, 84-65
#13	329	Augustana	15-3	def. Millikin, 72-57; LOST at Elmhurst, 74-83
#14	219	SUNY-Purchase	14-0	01/21 at Yeshiva postponed; won at Sage, 76-73; def. St. Joseph's (L.I.), 67-63
#15	211	Mary Washington	15-2	def. Southern Virginia, 113-79; won at York (Pa.), 63-57
#16	182	Virginia Wesleyan	13-4	LOST at T#44 Randolph-Macon, 62-78; def. Washington and Lee, 85-54
#17	178	Messiah	14-2	won at Widener, 95-87; LOST at Hood, 77-78
#18	170	Wittenberg	14-3	won at Kenyon, 66-54; won at Allegheny, 61-43
#19	162	Ohio Wesleyan	14-3	def. Oberlin, 81-72; def. Denison, 83-75
#20	159	Albertus Magnus	15-1	def. Rivier, 73-52; def. Elms, 113-97; won at Lasell, 101-91
#21	149	Oglethorpe	15-2	LOST to Centre, 47-52; def. Sewanee, 82-69
#22	123	Bowdoin	15-1	def. Maine-Presque Isle, 82-51; def. Colby, 64-59
#23	78	Brockport State	14-1	def. Buffalo State, 84-69; won at Oneonta State, 81-79; won at New Paltz State, 78-69
#24	74	St. Mary's (Md.)	12-4	01/22 vs. #33 Christopher Newport postponed; won at Marymount, 52-49
#25	40	Dubuque	16-1	won at Coe, 66-56; LOST at Loras, 66-76

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	38	Dickinson	14-3	LOST at Franklin and Marshall, 58-67; won at Swarthmore, 80-52
#27	33	Mount Union	13-3	LOST at Capital, 70-88; won at Muskingum, 73-50
#28	27	Whitworth	13-4	won at Whitman, 84-80; def. Lewis and Clark, 81-65
#29	24	Texas-Dallas	15-1	won at University of the Ozarks, 84-63; def. University of the Ozarks, 97-76; def. Texas-Tyler, 76-72
#30	21	William Paterson	14-4	won at John Jay, 91-71; def. TCNJ, 83-56; LOST at T#31 Richard Stockton, 57-81
T#31	20	Stevenson	13-4	LOST at Elizabethtown, 63-65; def. Arcadia, 80-78
T#31	20	Richard Stockton	14-3	LOST to Brooklyn, 55-63; def. #30 William Paterson, 81-57
#33	18	Christopher Newport	12-4	01/22 at #24 St. Mary's (Md.) postponed; won at Frostburg State, 84-41
#34	16	Augsburg	11-6	def. St. Mary's (Minn.), 97-60; LOST at #10 St. Thomas, 70-82; LOST at St. Olaf, 63-82
#35	15	DePauw	13-4	won at Wabash, 70-60; def. #2 Wooster, 78-74
T#36	11	Colorado College	12-4	won at Johnson & Wales (CO), 75-65; def. Southwestern, 74-57; LOST to Trinity (Texas), 48-63
T#36	11	Rose-Hulman	13-4	LOST at Hanover, 62-67; def. Transylvania, 66-38
#38	10	St. Vincent	15-2	def. Waynesburg, 87-68
#39	9	Springfield	13-4	won at Coast Guard, 73-60; def. Clark, 94-76
#40	8	Calvin	13-4	def. Trine, 71-49; won at Olivet, 95-53
#41	7	Babson	13-4	def. #43 MIT, 65-47; def. Coast Guard, 76-56
#42	6	Emory	12-4	won at New York University, 86-82; won at Brandeis, 94-88
#43	5	MIT	12-4	LOST at #41 Babson, 47-65; def. Emerson, 71-66
T#44	3	Randolph-Macon	13-4	def. #16 Virginia Wesleyan, 78-62; won at Roanoke, 70-57
T#44	3	Hampden-Sydney	10-7	LOST at Guilford, 72-74; LOST at Randolph, 73-76
T#44	3	Staten Island	15-2	def. Kean, 83-72; def. York (N.Y.), 80-75; def. Brooklyn, 86-58
T#44	3	Carthage	12-6	LOST at Elmhurst, 70-73; def. #4 Illinois Wesleyan, 80-73
#48	2	Eastern Connecticut	13-4	def. Keene State, 84-53; won at Rhode Island College, 73-58
T#49	1	Geneseo State	13-2	def. Fredonia State, 79-63; won at New Paltz State, 92-82; won at Oneonta State, 83-69
T#49	1	Marietta	13-4	def. Capital, 82-72; won at Wilmington, 78-76
T#49	1	Scranton	14-3	won at Drew, 82-72; def. Catholic, 92-82

Other teams to watch (as suggested by posters on this board)

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
---	---	Penn State-Behrend	14-3	won at Hilbert, 55-52; def. Pitt-Bradford, 69-57; LOST at Pitt-Greensburg, 61-65
---	---	Plattsburgh State	13-3	def. Potsdam State, 73-58; won at Buffalo State, 87-83; won at Fredonia State, 77-42