Top 25 talk

[Greek Tragedy]

It is a nonconference game. I guess they don't have to reschedule it, right?

[mailsy]

True. But it would be a shame if we didn't see these teams play each other.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

No... they don't have to reschedule it... it has been postponed now twice. However, I think the game would help both of them in the SOS numbers and vRRO criteria... so I bet they are trying to hash something out... it just doesn't look good unless maybe they are daring enough to try something on conference tournament week.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Here is my Top 25 ballot for Week 9: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2014/02/03/daves-top-25-ballot-week-9-2/

[Greek Tragedy]

Here is my Top 25 ballot for Week 9: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2014/02/03/daves-top-25-ballot-week-9-2/

Good read. That Point game at Whitewater is going to be a doozy.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Top 25 matchup between Cabrini and Wesley has been postponed. No date set.

That sucks.  Cabrini is only an hour north of me (and I'm a half hour north of Wesley).  They got, likely, somewhere around a foot of snow.  We got barely enough to be visible on the ground - and it only lasted for a half hour.  Crazy storm today.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

The rest of the week looks even worse... teams may be looking for conference games to make up leaving even less room for a non-conference tilt.

[Greek Tragedy]

Big game (duh!) in Whitewater tonight as the #7 Warhawks welcome #1 Stevens Point. My initial thought was that the Pointers could hold onto the #1 spot even if they lose a close one on the road since they have 24 of the 25 1st place votes. But looking again, they only have a 24 point lead, meaning the vote is a lot closer than I think it is despite the 1st place vote discrepancy. If my math is correct, the other 24 voters that didn't vote Cabrini #1 voted them #2.

[Pat Coleman]

The counterbalance to that is that Cabrini is without its national player of the year candidate, but they only have one game this week, at home vs. Immaculata.

If UWW won, it would probably come down to a split of the No. 1 votes. A loss on the road at Whitewater wouldn't necessarily convince me to turn over my top spot but it depends on how the game goes.

[Greek Tragedy]

Is there any word on how long AWM will be out or do I need to check the front page first so I don't get yelled at like my fellow Pointer, frodotwo?         

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I heard he was in the walk-through on Sunday as the team got ready for the game against Wesley... but he wasn't doing anything in regular practice. That was obviously a few days ago and now that the Wesley game has been postponed (probably for good), I suspect Cabrini is going to park him until he is heeled. Play him in games you can win without him and he gets hurt... your chances of going deep into the NCAA tournament are probably gone.

[Pat Coleman]

Is there any word on how long AWM will be out or do I need to check the front page first so I don't get yelled at like my fellow Pointer, frodotwo?         

I don't envision us doing a story solely to say AWM will play tonight. And I don't picture Cabrini announcing in advance that he won't play.

[jeffjo]

If my math is correct, the other 24 voters that didn't vote Cabrini #1 voted them #2.

You were close. To hit 600 points exactly, the votes have to average 24. Since one counted for 25 points, one must count for 23 to balance the average. So one #1, twenty-three #2's, and one #3.

I once wrote a program to guestimate the entire set of votes. It's not perfect (there always seem to be some anomalies - you'll see some below), but I think it is informative. Starting with #1, it says:

UW-Stevens Point, 24 1
Cabrini, 1, 23, 1
WPI, 0, 1, 18, 3, 0, 1, 1, (and a #13)
Washington U., 0, 0, 6, 8, 3, 2, 1, 2, 0, 1, 1, (and a #16)
Illinois Wesleyan, 0, 0, 0, 7, 4, 3, 3, 2, 2, 1, 1, 1, (and a #17)
Wesley, 0, 0, 0, 4, 5, 4, 4, 2, 1, 2, 1, 1, (and a #18)
UW-Whitewater, 0, 0, 0, 3, 6, 4, 3, 2, 2, 2, 1, 1, (and a #19)

These are spread out more than usual because somehow there are 31 points missing (all the totals add up to 8094, and it should be 8125). I'm guessing they belong somewhere in 3 to 5, since the differences in totals there are too big and that's where the result starts to look unusual. If I'm right, it can't change the rankings, but it will make somebody look closer to the top.

[Pat Coleman]

Good catch. I have to retype the results manually into the page so sometimes there are issues. Missed a number typing on the keypad but it's Brockport who should have 30 more, so the order is alright. The 1 is down in the ORV section.

[John Gleich]

Carry-over from the CCIW board (and further discussion):

New poll, IWU up to #5.  Wash U at #4.  Amherst and Wooster dropping down.  Augie down to #23, Wheaton still getting some love in ORVs.  No love for Gramps and his Carthage squad.  Sorry Gramps.  More time to go.  I think Augie drops out of the top 25 with another loss or two. 

Carthage women still flying high.

IWU70

Anyone else take issue with Wash U's ranking ABOVE IWU?

If ever there was a clear result in the head-to-head, the 25 point drubbing in the Nut House would be it.

I get that IWU went 1-0 on the week vs Wash U going 2-0, due to the the postponed game Saturday.

But IWU won via a 34 point drubbing of Milikin.
Wash U won their two games by a total of 7.

And I get that one of Wash U's victories had been against Emory, who was receiving votes. But Emory lost to BOTH Chicago and Wash U.


I just don't see any reason why IWU lost 23 poll points in a week that they went 1-0 and won their game by 34.

I DO get why they could have lost points the week before, after the Carthage loss (and they did lose points... 513 down to 502). But then to sink from 502 to 479 when they didn't lose?

That just doesn't make sense.


In a similar sense, I think that the ranking of UWW above St. Norbert is correct, by virtue of UWW's victory over the Knights. I don't understand how Norbert is above Amherst, Williams, and Wooster... but that's a discussion for the top 25 board.

St. Norbert is way too high. Just because teams around them are losing DOESN'T mean that a) that team needs to drop b) teams ranked lower need to be bumped up in the poll.


It's the old matriculation again, rearing its ugly head.  When a team, like St. Norbert, whallops its conference, it should rise to a certain level... say, 15, or 12, but then it should stop, irregardless of what happens to the teams around it.

St. Norbert has played one good team - UW Whitewater - and they lost.  They've played, and beaten, their conference, but that's not saying a whole lot.

Ergo, they should only rise to a certain point, and then stop. I get that they can't help their schedule (... well, sort of, but the MWC is a difficult environment, with only 5 non-con games allowed) but they shouldn't be rewarded for beating a bad schedule, beyond a certain point.

If they're that good, then let them make some noise in the NCAA tournament. Nobody from the MWC has done that since Lawrence was undefeated and ranked #1 in the country back in 05-06.

Maybe I'm being too harsh on St. Norbert and I'm not remember Lawrence well enough. But if you go through a season undefeated, no matter how bad your conference, it's hard to gauge exactly how good that team really is.


But, in my mind, there's no chance that St. Norbert is really better than Amherst, Williams, and Wooster.