Top 25 talk

[smedindy]

I feel for George Fox, a bit, but not much. We were leading Alaska-Fairbanks by 26 with 4:00 in the first half. Alaska's big Serbian was back at the hotel as he was sick. But this scrub who had scored just 17 points all year lit us up for 26 points and we lost by 8.

Sports.

[smedindy]

That's 8-15, Massey #339 Baptist Bible, by the way.

Upset of the year in D3.

They'd get some competition from then #6 Wesley losing to then 3-win York (PA), and perhaps a couple of others, but yeah, it ranks up there pretty high!

Right now the Massey Upset tool has Northland over Northwestern (MN) as the largest upset, with Southern Vermont over Williams second. But the tool may be off, because it says the Upset Factor for Howard Payne beating Hardin Simmons is just 87 when HP is 303 right now and H-S is 60, unless there are other factors that go into that. May have to check.

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (Complete)

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	608	UW-Stevens Point	22-1	def. UW-Platteville, 74-59; won at UW-River Falls, 54-50
#2	603	Cabrini	20-1	won at Cairn, 103-96; won at Centenary (N.J.), 69-53; LOST at Baptist Bible, 97-106
#3	563	UW-Whitewater	21-3	def. UW-La Crosse, 63-45; def. UW-Oshkosh, 75-51
#4	545	Washington U.	20-2	won at Brandeis, 95-82; won at New York University, 79-75
#5	516	Illinois Wesleyan	20-3	won at North Central (Ill.), 80-68; def. Carthage, 80-66
#6	487	St. Norbert	20-1	won at Carroll, 68-62; def. Grinnell, 113-88
#7	485	Amherst	21-3	def. Middlebury, 84-67
#8	436	Williams	21-3	won at Connecticut College, 98-90; won at Wesleyan, 87-70
#9	433	Wooster	20-3	won at Hiram, 76-71; def. #15 Wittenberg, 60-55
#10	364	Wesley	20-2	won at Salisbury, 67-62; won at #13 Mary Washington, 91-75
#11	347	St. Thomas	20-3	won at T#41 St. Olaf, 55-51; won at Concordia-Moorhead, 81-67
#12	330	WPI	20-3	won at MIT, 64-52; def. Coast Guard, 56-45
#13	252	Mary Washington	18-5	LOST at T#39 Christopher Newport, 61-74; LOST to #10 Wesley, 75-91
#14	246	Ohio Wesleyan	18-5	LOST at Wabash, 66-77; def. Allegheny, 81-76
#15	226	Wittenberg	17-6	LOST to DePauw, 49-71; LOST at #9 Wooster, 55-60
#16	225	Whitworth	19-4	def. Linfield, 91-59; def. George Fox, 105-101
#17	221	Albertus Magnus	21-2	def. Lasell, 92-61; won at Norwich, 86-71
#18	202	SUNY-Purchase	21-1	won at SUNY-Old Westbury, 85-68; 02/13 at NYU-Poly postponed; def. Yeshiva, 80-51
#19	189	Brockport State	20-2	won at #31 Geneseo State, 66-62; won at Buffalo State, 94-74; won at Fredonia State, 93-61
#20	124	Texas-Dallas	21-2	def. East Texas Baptist, 95-70; def. LeTourneau, 75-52
#21	95	Randolph-Macon	18-5	LOST at Eastern Mennonite, 68-73; def. Emory and Henry, 65-39
#22	90	Centre	18-4	LOST at Birmingham-Southern, 50-53; won at Millsaps, 90-56
#23	85	Dubuque	20-3	LOST to Loras, 70-71; LOST to Central, 74-80
#24	80	Bowdoin	19-4	won at Bates, 75-49; LOST at Tufts, 62-66
#25	71	Messiah	18-4	LOST to Stevenson, 60-64; won at Lebanon Valley, 82-73

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	61	Virginia Wesleyan	17-6	def. Hampden-Sydney, 66-63; LOST at Roanoke, 79-84
#27	48	Wheaton (Ill.)	17-7	won at North Park, 103-66; LOST at North Central (Ill.), 66-71
#28	39	Staten Island	22-2	def. Hunter, 88-82; def. CCNY, 97-70
#29	25	Mount Union	19-4	def. Heidelberg, 87-68; def. Muskingum, 113-77; LOST to Ohio Northern, 85-90
#30	23	Marietta	18-5	LOST at Capital, 55-75; won at Baldwin Wallace, 91-80
#31	21	Geneseo State	18-4	LOST to #19 Brockport State, 62-66; won at Fredonia State, 77-56; won at Buffalo State, 81-67
#32	20	Hope	17-6	won at Olivet, 108-57; def. Alma, 70-67
T#33	13	Scranton	20-3	def. Drew, 67-63; won at Catholic, 80-71
T#33	13	Augustana	18-6	won at Millikin, 76-59; def. Elmhurst, 80-52
#35	11	Babson	18-5	won at #38 Springfield, 67-61; def. Clark, 68-53
#36	8	Plattsburgh State	18-4	def. Cortland State, 88-71; def. Oswego State, 82-72
#37	7	Calvin	18-5	def. Kalamazoo, 86-59; won at Trine, 69-65
#38	4	Springfield	16-6	LOST to #35 Babson, 61-67
T#39	3	Christopher Newport	16-7	def. #13 Mary Washington, 74-61; def. Penn State-Harrisburg, 74-44
T#39	3	Rose-Hulman	19-4	def. Hanover, 61-50; won at Bluffton, 61-55
T#41	2	Eastern Connecticut	18-5	won at Keene State, 72-69; def. Mass-Dartmouth, 79-73
T#41	2	St. Olaf	18-5	LOST to #11 St. Thomas, 51-55; def. Hamline, 88-37
T#43	1	St. Vincent	19-4	def. Geneva, 77-62; LOST to Bethany, 65-85
T#43	1	Dickinson	19-4	def. McDaniel, 83-61; won at Johns Hopkins, 68-63

[Darryl Nester]

In lieu of karma, please consider a donation to the Vs. Cancer Foundation.  On February 27, along with the Bluffton University baseball team, I'm going to get a severe haircut.  I'm hoping I can tap into some of those billions of dollars floating around D3 hoops.

[John Gleich]

So, how far does Cabrini fall (or do they)?  Their loss, though it was in the third game in the week, wasn't against a top tier opponent.

[nescac1]

Williams and Amherst both seem to be peaking at the right time, Amherst in particular.  With three losses each I realize neither is going to make the top five, but I think Amherst is right there with Stevens Point in terms of favorites to win the title, and Williams is right there with the rest of the top five, based on how they are playing at the moment.  Amherst does not look much different to me from the team that won last year's title.  Different cast of characters, but Toomey is playing at a much higher level than last season, and he has a similar caliber of ridiculous athletes around him -- just a far more athletic group than the other title contenders.  Amherst is not quite as deep as last season but the starting five is just as good, and obviously extremely well-practiced at playing their best in the biggest moments.

Williams is playing light years better than they were even a month ago, although they are still not at Amherst's level right now.  Still, I do think the Ephs can play with anybody as they have two legit all-Americans leading the way. 

[Greek Tragedy]

Usually when outsiders think WIAC, they think Stevens Point. I will tell you though, Whitewater is also a threat, not only for the WIAC title, but for a national title.  They are always the most athletic team in the league and can play with anyone. Tough draw and disappointing tourney last year, but are better this year.

I can see the Warhawks getting a 1st place vote or two, actually.

[David Collinge]

http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/index

Don't look now, but Richard Stockton is just 6 points away from being ranked...

I wish I still had my old spreadsheet from when I obsessively tracked the Top 25. This week, 49 men's teams showed up on at least one ballot; I'm willing to bet that's a record for this late in the season. Last season, week 11's poll had 36 teams getting votes.

UPDATE: It is the most, at least since the 2001-02 season, the first for which the poll is archived on this site. The next most populous week 11 poll was in 2006-07, when 45 teams were nominated. This week's poll has 22.5% more teams listed than the average week 11 poll over the previous dozen seasons.

[sac]

I'm surprised Wittenberg is still holding on to a ranking.  They've lost 3 of their last 5 now.

[Pat Coleman]

I'm surprised Wittenberg is still holding on to a ranking.  They've lost 3 of their last 5 now.

Agreed. There were just too many other losses in that area that cushioned their fall.

http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/index

Don't look now, but Richard Stockton is just 6 points away from being ranked...

I wish I still had my old spreadsheet from when I obsessively tracked the Top 25. This week, 49 men's teams showed up on at least one ballot; I'm willing to bet that's a record for this late in the season. Last season, week 11's poll had 36 teams getting votes.

UPDATE: It is the most, at least since the 2001-02 season, the first for which the poll is archived on this site. The next most populous week 11 poll was in 2006-07, when 45 teams were nominated. This week's poll has 22.5% more teams listed than the average week 11 poll over the previous dozen seasons.

I wish you still had that too, David.

The 2000-01 Week 11 poll also had 49 teams receiving votes.
http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/2000-01/week11

The 1999-2000 Week 11 poll had 40 teams receiving votes.
http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/1999-00/week11

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

If anyone cares for some light reading, here is my ballot: www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2014/02/17/daves-top-25-ballot-week-11-2/... I am about ready to give up  .

[Titan Q]

If anyone cares for some light reading, here is my ballot: www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2014/02/17/daves-top-25-ballot-week-11-2/... I am about ready to give up  .

Just FYI Dave, IWU does not have 3 losses in the CCIW...the Titans are 10-2 right now.

If the Titans beat North Park Wednesday, they are guaranteed a share of the CCIW title - you say "they could lose the regular season title."  As long as they beat NPU, all they could lose is the tie-breaker.  In an 11-3 tie, both teams would share the regular season title.

Also worth noting, Cabrini's SOS per Massey is #195.  IWU is #10 and Wash U's #6.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

TitanQ - thanks for catching that, I was rushing through that section as I heard one of my kids crying as she woke up from a nap and heard the other one running around upstairs - mom hadn't gotten home yet. I will go back to fix that.

As for the Massey stuff... I know what it says and I know what the SOS says, but that is also why I made the comment that those numbers have not indicated just how good Cabrini has been over the last few years.

[Titan Q]

As for the Massey stuff... I know what it says and I know what the SOS says, but that is also why I made the comment that those numbers have not indicated just how good Cabrini has been over the last few years.

Cabrini has become one of the top programs in Division III - no doubt.  But at the same time, I don't think things that happened in past seasons should be factored into the Top 25 voting process here in mid/late-February.  Cabrini should be evaluated based on 2013-14 only, and the fact is they have played a weak schedule and have very few "good wins"...certainly not enough good wins to get a free pass for a loss to Baptist Bible.

I'm most confused by you slotting Cabrini #2 after such a horrendous loss, while at the same time making it sound like Illinois Wesleyan and Washington U aren't even decent candidates for that spot:

Yeah, the Titans were knocking on the door of number-two thanks to Cabrini's loss, but I just don't feel they are the second-best team in the country... or even third-best.
----------
More of the same with the Bears of Washington University. I have stated in past weeks I am nervous with this team this far up in ballot and I know I am not the only one thinking that. Again, had I moved Cabrini down it probably would have resulted in Wash U. moving up to number three and that simply makes me cringe. I like how the Bears are playing and they are rolling away with the UAA title, but I am not sure their conference standing is a sign of how good the Bears are or proves that the rest of the UAA took a step back (or for some more than one) this season.


The CCIW and UAA are the top two conferences this year.  Wash U is the undefeated (so far) champion of the UAA, and with a win Wednesday over North Park, IWU will earn the CCIW title (Wheaton can share that title with a home win over IWU Saturday).  Both teams have several more "good wins" than Cabrini.  The teams that win leagues like the WIAC, UAA, and CCIW are very good.

Just saying - I don't agree with your suggestion that Wash U and IWU are not even good candidates for the #2 spot.

Oh, and thanks for posting your ballot...makes for good conversation here.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I'm most confused by you slotting Cabrini #2 after such a horrendous loss, while at the same time making it sound like Illinois Wesleyan and Washington U aren't even decent candidates for that spot:

Yeah, the Titans were knocking on the door of number-two thanks to Cabrini's loss, but I just don't feel they are the second-best team in the country... or even third-best.

I think IWU is better than Cabrini, even when healthy, so I can't defend that part - but Cabrini has been in such disarray - going a week without power on campus and having their two best players in and out of the lineup for a week - plus playing in a conference where they don't even have to try most nights.  Yeah, it was a terrible loss, but it really doesn't tell us anything at all, which is frustrating.