Top 25 talk

[smedindy]

Massey Rating of 16. Their 6 losses were to Whitewater, Stevens Point, Wheaton, NAIA Cornerstone (25-4), Illinois Wesleyan and a conference roadie at Albion. Five of those six losses don't diminish them at all - and you can always quibble about a roadie in the midst of a conference grind.

[Greek Tragedy]

http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/2013-14/week12

New poll is out with Hope (as mentioned) and Richard Stockton in with Ohio Wesleyan and Rose-Hulman out.


Point and Whitewater have the same number of votes as last week.

St. Thomas drops just one spot after losing at home, but loses 55 points.

[David Collinge]

New poll is out with Hope (as mentioned) and Richard Stockton in with Ohio Wesleyan and Rose-Hulman out.

TGHIJGSTO!

[Greek Tragedy]

New poll is out with Hope (as mentioned) and Richard Stockton in with Ohio Wesleyan and Rose-Hulman out.

TGHIJGSTO!

Surprised they didn't get any 1st place votes.

[NEHoopsFan99]

Massey Rating of 16. Their 6 losses were to Whitewater, Stevens Point, Wheaton, NAIA Cornerstone (25-4), Illinois Wesleyan and a conference roadie at Albion. Five of those six losses don't diminish them at all - and you can always quibble about a roadie in the midst of a conference grind.

Not sure why you think a high Massey rating means anything. I understand that they have had 4 good losses but so has Babson and Ohio Wesleyan. How can you argue Hope has had a better season than a team like Babson? I think at some point 6 losses is just too much regardless of who you're losing to. It's not like those were even close games.

[sac]

Massey Rating of 16. Their 6 losses were to Whitewater, Stevens Point, Wheaton, NAIA Cornerstone (25-4), Illinois Wesleyan and a conference roadie at Albion. Five of those six losses don't diminish them at all - and you can always quibble about a roadie in the midst of a conference grind.

Not sure why you think a high Massey rating means anything. I understand that they have had 4 good losses but so has Babson and Ohio Wesleyan. How can you argue Hope has had a better season than a team like Babson? I think at some point 6 losses is just too much regardless of who you're losing to. It's not like those were even close games.

I don't really care if Hope is ranked or not, but they are 17-1 since Christmas.

Its not like they've just accumulated a bunch of losses and stick in the poll for no reason at all.   Like say, Wittenberg who are 7-5 in their last 12.

[NEHoopsFan99]

Agreed Wittenberg was only saved by their enormous cushion. They really shouldn't be ranked.

[Titan Q]

Not sure why you think a high Massey rating means anything.

Because Massey has no bias, and Massey does not overreact to losses like voters in a subjective poll do.

[Pat Coleman]

Massey Rating of 16. Their 6 losses were to Whitewater, Stevens Point, Wheaton, NAIA Cornerstone (25-4), Illinois Wesleyan and a conference roadie at Albion. Five of those six losses don't diminish them at all - and you can always quibble about a roadie in the midst of a conference grind.

Not sure why you think a high Massey rating means anything. I understand that they have had 4 good losses but so has Babson and Ohio Wesleyan. How can you argue Hope has had a better season than a team like Babson? I think at some point 6 losses is just too much regardless of who you're losing to. It's not like those were even close games.

I think it's an extreme fallacy to compare OWU's losses to Woo, Witt, Witt and DePauw to four losses vs. teams that are all in the top five in the country for their level (and one of those levels includes scholarships).

[NEHoopsFan99]

You're focusing on their losses but what about quality wins? Sure a tough schedule with mostly losses to top teams could be easily outweighed by some quality wins but I don't see it. Who have they beaten that makes them T25 worthy? I don't see having enough quality wins to justify Top 25 status but that's just me.

[Pat Coleman]

They've also beaten No. 21 Centre on a neutral floor. Carthage isn't ranked but most people would think of crushing a team in the top half of the CCIW on a neutral floor as being a quality win.

[sac]

and, ya know, two wins over Calvin.

They've also beaten No. 21 Centre on a neutral floor. Carthage isn't ranked but most people would think of crushing a team in the top half of the CCIW on a neutral floor as being a quality win.

10 days after Carthage beat WashU as well, and a day after Carthage beat Calvin.

[Greek Tragedy]

I'm not completely on NEHoopsfan99's side. But, he does have an argument to some extent.

We've discussed Hope's schedule before. Yes, they have those "quality" losses to all of those teams...but, they didn't win any of them.

It has taken them a long time to get into the poll, but like sac said, they have won 16 of their last 17 games and not too many teams can say that. On that merit, anyone can crack the Top 25.

It's been noted they did beat Centre and Carthage, but those games were before the New Year and we are at the end of February.

sac can say "two wins over Calvin" all he wants.  But, how good was their schedule at 20-5? They beat Wheaton, lost to CMS and lost to Carthage.  Hope has one more loss against a much better schedule. I don't think I would get too excited beating Calvin twice (yeah, yeah, I know about the rivalry).

I'm just saying he has a better argument than our Richard Stockton friend. 

[David Collinge]

sac can say "two wins over Calvin" all he wants. 

No, actually, I don't think he can.

[Pat Coleman]

and, ya know, two wins over Calvin.

They've also beaten No. 21 Centre on a neutral floor. Carthage isn't ranked but most people would think of crushing a team in the top half of the CCIW on a neutral floor as being a quality win.

10 days after Carthage beat WashU as well, and a day after Carthage beat Calvin.

NE99 seems focused on the Top 25 as his only measure so I was trying to provide him with data he might recognize as valid.