Top 25 talk

[AndOne]

#20 Stevens Point has 2 losses. One was to #21 North Central which has only one loss which was to #5 Dickinson (#10 at the time). Yet UWSP is ranked above NCC. 

[Mr. Ypsi]

#20 Stevens Point has 2 losses. One was to #21 North Central which has only one loss which was to #5 Dickinson (#10 at the time). Yet UWSP is ranked above NCC. 

UWSP has played a tougher schedule.  But, yeah, NCC won AT Stevens Point by 7.  Perhaps the explanation is that it is still early enough in the season (in terms of playing quality teams) that reputation did it.  NCC had excellent seasons 2 and 3 years ago, but has generally been just OK; UWSP has been continuously superb for many years, including national titles.

(As a CCIW partisan, imagine the difficulty I had typing this post! )

[Gregory Sager]

That may indeed be the accurate explanation, but it's still shallow reasoning on the part of the pollsters. NCC ought to be ahead of UWSP.

[John Gleich]

I'm not arguing with the conclusion in any way shape or form... I think that NC should be ahead of UWSP as well due to the head to head.

But I think it's very difficult to look at two individual teams in a vacuum like this.


In week 3, NC was ranked #16 and had 234 poll points (avg ranking #16.64). UWSP was ranked #21 and had 138 poll points (average ranking #20.48).

In week 4 (Dec 8th-Dec 14th) UWSP won twice (@ UW Stout and @ Lawrence) and received 152 poll points (average ranking 19.92), an increase of 14 poll points (0.56 ranking "increase").

North Central won once (Penn State York) and lost once (Dickinson) and received 149 poll points (average ranking 20.04), a decrease of 85 poll points (3.4 ranking decrease per ballot.

So, UWSP barely moved, but North Central dropped three and a half spots on every ballot (on average).

They're effectively tied in the poll (152 vs 149) at #20.

[AndOne]

John--

With all due respect, I don't give a poop how many points my team gets, I care what place they are voted to.
Whether one team won twice in a week and another won only once that week shouldn't matter. The placement/ranking should be the result of the body of work for the entire season to that point.

The first line of your post said all that needs to be said. "I think that NC should be ahead of UWSP as well due to the head to head."
The fact that NCC has one loss and UWSP has two is just added reinforcement of that fact. 

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

John--

With all due respect, I don't give a poop how many points my team gets, I care what place they are voted to.
Whether one team won twice in a week and another won only once that week shouldn't matter. The placement/ranking should be the result of the body of work for the entire season to that point.

The first line of your post said all that needs to be said. "I think that NC should be ahead of UWSP as well due to the head to head."
The fact that NCC has one loss and UWSP has two is just added reinforcement of that fact. 

But you're also assuming the poll has some mind of its own.  It's a conglomeration of individual ballots.  Sure, some people are voting for Stevens Point who aren't even voting for NCC, but the drop in North Central's ranking may be due to some voters moving them from #8 to #11.  That's why the points matter - they tell the story in comparison to last week.  Only dropping an average of three spots after a road loss to a good team is probably about right.

I doubt too many voters dropped NCC below Stevens Point - likely a number already had them below.  Remember, head-to-head is just one game.  Dickinson lost at home to Gettysburg, but no one is voting Gettysburg above Dickinson.

I think North Central has the better resume right now, but I can certainly see why some would be skeptical (even if I disagree).  It's not a crazy travesty or anything.  Now Amherst and Williams being so high to start the year... maybe.

[Gregory Sager]

The placement/ranking should be the result of the body of work for the entire season to that point.

Actually, the impression that I get is that pollsters tend to weigh recent results more than older results, because it's supposed to be a power poll rather than a mere W-L ranking. The more recent the results, the more accurate an indication they are of a team's current relative strength.

[WUPHF]

The Pointers are likely to move significantly (i.e. at least a few spots) next week as they are set to take on St. Thomas on Saturday evening.

[jaybird44]

WashU up by 4 at halftime at Coe.  Trailed early from Coe 3s, took a 13-point lead with about 4 minutes left, then late 3s brought the Kohawks within 4.

Bears playing good on the road, but the defense has to be vigilant from the arc on every Coe possession.

[jaybird44]

WashU gets a nice road win @ Coe, winning by 10. Coe made 14 treys, but WashU was 21-23 from FT line, including several by Matt Palucki down the stretch in the 2nd half.  Bears also had a 38-30 edge in rebounds and shot around 51% from the floor.

Mitch Styzcinski had a career-high 19 points and 9 rebounds.  I believe all of the starters scored in double-figures, and David Fatoki's had a career-high 11 assists and only 1 turnover.

20 days until the Bears' next game Jan. 10 @ Chicago.

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (So Far)

In the past, there has been a 2- or 3-week gap between polls over the holidays; this list includes two weeks' worth of games (and even then, there are a number of idle teams). ...

Because (I am assuming) there is no poll tomorrow, I'll refrain from posting an update tonight--which would only include a handful of games, anyway.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

How They Fared (So Far)

In the past, there has been a 2- or 3-week gap between polls over the holidays; this list includes two weeks' worth of games (and even then, there are a number of idle teams). ...

Because (I am assuming) there is no poll tomorrow, I'll refrain from posting an update tonight--which would only include a handful of games, anyway.

Next poll is 1/5, I believe.

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (So Far)
The next report will be next Sunday (at the end of this three-week stretch).

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	621	Washington U.	11-0	won at Coe, 88-78
#2	587	Augustana	8-1	won at MacMurray, 78-73; 12/29 vs. Luther (n); 12/30 vs. Coe (n); 01/03 at Carthage
#3	555	UW-Whitewater	8-2	def. Monmouth, 74-54; def. Kalamazoo, 89-53; 12/31 vs. Beloit; 01/03 at UW-River Falls
#4	552	Richard Stockton	10-0	01/03 vs. #31 Lynchburg (n); 01/04 vs. TBA (n)
#5	473	Dickinson	9-1	won at Alvernia, 71-64; 01/03 at York (N.Y.)
#6	458	St. Thomas	8-1	def. #20 UW-Stevens Point, 68-66; 01/03 at Carleton
#7	438	Emory	7-1	12/29 vs. #28 Bates; 12/30 vs. Birmingham Southern/Union; 01/03 vs. #8 Virginia Wesleyan
#8	413	Virginia Wesleyan	8-1	def. Mary Washington, 81-60; 12/31 at North Carolina Wesleyan; 01/03 at #7 Emory
#9	397	Illinois Wesleyan	7-2	def. Loras, 94-72; 12/29 vs. Nazareth (n); 12/30 vs. TBA (n); 01/03 at #21 North Central (Ill.)
#10	355	Ohio Wesleyan	9-1	def. Otterbein, 92-81; 01/03 at Hope
#11	323	WPI	8-1	12/29 vs. T#29 Williams (n); 12/30 vs. FDU-Florham (n)
#12	313	Albertus Magnus	8-1	def. #42 Western Connecticut, 110-92
#13	294	Centre	8-0	def. (n) Huntingdon, 71-55; def. (n) MacMurray, 70-48; 12/29 vs. Johns Hopkins (n); 12/30 vs. TBA (n); 01/04 at Sewanee
#14	241	Wooster	6-2	won at Pitt-Bradford, 89-67; 12/29 vs. UW-La Crosse; 12/30 vs. TBD; 01/03 at Denison
#15	235	Amherst	5-2	12/30 at Drew; 01/02 at Goucher
#16	224	Scranton	6-2	LOST to (n) Husson, 74-79; 12/29 vs. Hanover (n); 01/02 at King's; 01/03 vs. Wilkes (n)
#17	194	Babson	8-1	12/31 vs. Colby; 01/03 at Elms
#18	191	St. Norbert	8-0	won at Illinois College, 87-58; 12/29 vs. St. Scholastica; 01/03 at Cornell
#19	188	Eastern Connecticut	8-1	12/30 vs. #24 Marietta (n); 12/31 vs. Messiah (n); 01/03 vs. Plymouth State
#20	152	UW-Stevens Point	7-3	LOST at #6 St. Thomas, 66-68; 12/29 at Pomona-Pitzer; 12/31 at #23 Claremont-Mudd-Scripps
#21	149	North Central (Ill.)	10-1	won at Benedictine, 65-64; def. Olivet, 76-54; def. (n) Adrian, 75-69; 01/03 vs. #9 Illinois Wesleyan
#22	140	Randolph-Macon	7-2	def. #40 Cabrini, 105-92; def. Averett, 74-69; 12/29 vs. Carroll; 12/30 vs. Baruch
#23	110	Claremont-Mudd-Scripps	7-1	def. Westmont, 79-64; 12/31 vs. #20 UW-Stevens Point; 01/03 vs. Redlands
#24	83	Marietta	10-0	won at Baldwin Wallace, 86-77; def. John Carroll, 82-68; 12/30 vs. #19 Eastern Connecticut (n); 12/31 vs. Mass-Dartmouth (n)
#25	54	Franklin and Marshall	9-0	01/03 vs. Immaculata; 01/04 vs. TBD

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	44	Chapman	7-0	won at La Sierra, 81-58; 12/29 vs. Oberlin; 12/30 vs. St. Joseph's (Bklyn.); 01/03 at Whittier
#27	37	St. Olaf	8-1	def. Northwestern (Minn.), 85-60; 01/03 vs. T#34 Gustavus Adolphus
#28	35	Bates	7-0	12/29 at #7 Emory; 12/30 vs. Birmingham Southern/Union (n); 01/03 at Southern Vermont
T#29	34	Williams	7-2	12/29 vs. #11 WPI (n); 12/30 at Salem State; 01/03 at Endicott
T#29	34	MIT	7-3	IDLE
#31	31	Lynchburg	7-1	def. #37 Marymount, 69-62; 01/01 at Penn St. Mont Alto; 01/03 vs. #4 Richard Stockton (n); 01/04 vs. #25 Franklin & Marshall or Immaculata (n)
#32	21	Chicago	7-3	def. North Park, 90-86; 01/03 vs. Illinois Tech
#33	19	Hardin-Simmons	9-0	won at Howard Payne, 77-59; def. Sul Ross State, 90-66; 12/29 vs. Texas Lutheran; 01/03 at Louisiana College
T#34	18	Gustavus Adolphus	7-1	01/03 at #27 St. Olaf
T#34	18	Christopher Newport	5-3	LOST at Salisbury, 48-54; 12/29 vs. Otterbein; 01/03 vs. York (Pa.)
#36	15	Cortland State	7-0	01/03 vs. Medaille
#37	14	Marymount	9-1	LOST at #31 Lynchburg, 62-69; def. (n) Maryville (Tenn.), 57-49; def. (n) Roanoke, 76-62; 01/03 at Mary Washington
#38	11	Stevenson	8-2	won at Macalester, 61-58; 12/30 at Allegheny; 01/03 at Albright
#39	10	Rhode Island College	8-3	IDLE
#40	9	Cabrini	5-4	LOST at #22 Randolph-Macon, 92-105; 01/03 at Rosemont
#41	8	Calvin	6-4	LOST at Ripon, 80-86; won at UW-Oshkosh, 75-63; 12/31 at Finlandia
#42	6	Western Connecticut	7-1	LOST at #12 Albertus Magnus, 92-110; 01/03 at Western New England
T#43	5	Middlebury	7-0	01/02 vs. Salve Regina
T#43	5	Dubuque	10-1	def. (n) Birmingham-Southern, 76-62; def. (n) Bridgewater (Va.), 58-51
T#45	4	Bethel	7-1	won at UW-La Crosse, 84-62; 01/03 vs. St. John's
T#45	4	Keene State	8-0	12/31 vs. Plattsburgh State; 01/03 at Castleton State
#47	3	Widener	9-3	won at Drew, 80-69; LOST to St. Mary's (Md.), 46-60; 01/03 at Lycoming
#48	2	Wheaton (Ill.)	7-4	won at Trinity (Texas), 68-63; LOST to (n) Texas Lutheran, 56-63; 01/03 at Elmhurst

[wooscotsfan]

Final: #14 Wooster 78  Hope 75

Wooster moves to 8-2 with a nice regional win over a strong Hope team.  Wooster was led by Dan Fanelly with 28 points and Xavier Brown with 14.

[Greek Tragedy]

TGHIJGSTO getting double teamed by Franklin and Marshall. F&M is up 20 in the 2nd half