Top 25 talk

[Titan Q]

Big game as #1 Augie heads to Whitewater tonight. The Warhawks are flying under the radar, imo, as they've won some low-profile games: coming from behind to top Ripon, and cruising over Finlandia and Ohio Northern. They hung tough and lost to #3 NAIA II Davenport (Hope losing to #2 Cornerstone recently).

Whitewater literally lost their entire roster and has several nice transfers come in and Southeast Conference  POTY Andre Brown. I think Brown was hurt last game as he started but just played 3 minutes. That could factor into tonight's game. Massey actually has Whitewater winning 71-69. I expect Augustana to win but I wouldn't be surprised if Whitewater pulls one out.

Whitewater sure doesn't look like a Top 25 team to me right now.

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (So Far)

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	625	Augustana	3-0	won at #23 UW-Whitewater, 75-55; 12/05 vs. #7 UW-Stevens Point
#2	573	Whitworth	5-0	12/04 vs. Lewis and Clark; 12/05 vs. Linfield
#3	571	St. Thomas	4-0	def. Concordia-Moorhead, 92-64; 12/05 vs. Carleton
#4	548	Amherst	4-0	won at Westfield State, 89-65; 12/05 at Emerson
#5	511	Hope	3-1	12/04 vs. Wheaton (Ill.); 12/05 vs. Carthage
#6	407	Ohio Wesleyan	7-0	def. #28 Wooster, 88-75; 12/05 at Denison
#7	392	UW-Stevens Point	3-1	12/05 at #1 Augustana
#8	366	Elmhurst	5-1	def. Adrian, 82-50; 12/05 vs. Albion
#9	349	Marietta	5-1	def. Muskingum, 78-67; 12/05 vs. Wilmington
#10	328	St. John Fisher	3-1	LOST to (n) Rochester Tech, 64-69
#11	315	Babson	5-1	12/05 vs. Brandeis (n); 12/06 vs. TBA (n)
#12	282	Benedictine	4-0	won at Rockford, 89-79; 12/05 vs. Marian
#13	238	WPI	6-0	def. Tufts, 85-70; 12/03 vs. Framingham State; 12/05 vs. Fitchburg State
#14	235	Washington U.	5-0	12/05 at #32 Illinois Wesleyan
#15	217	Virginia Wesleyan	4-2	12/05 at Washington and Lee
#16	193	John Carroll	6-0	def. Heidelberg, 82-63; 12/05 at Ohio Northern
#17	181	Salisbury	5-1	LOST at #21 Christopher Newport, 60-71; 12/05 at Frostburg State
#18	171	Trinity (Conn.)	4-1	def. Vassar, 74-56
#19	164	New York University	5-0	def. John Jay, 81-67
#20	141	Franklin and Marshall	5-1	def. Ursinus, 63-57; 12/05 vs. Washington College
#21	137	Christopher Newport	5-0	def. #17 Salisbury, 71-60; 12/05 at Marymount
#22	108	Catholic	3-3	LOST at #54 Susquehanna, 81-87; 12/05 at Moravian
#23	107	UW-Whitewater	3-2	LOST to #1 Augustana, 55-75; 12/05 at Beloit
#24	95	Brooklyn	7-0	won at SUNY-Old Westbury, 91-64; def. Stevens, 107-92; 12/04 vs. John Jay
#25	89	Oswego State	6-0	12/04 at Fredonia State; 12/05 at Buffalo State

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	88	East Texas Baptist	3-1	12/03 vs. McMurry; 12/05 vs. Hardin-Simmons
#27	84	Mount Union	4-2	def. Baldwin Wallace, 110-109; 12/05 at Capital
#28	80	Wooster	2-2	LOST at #6 Ohio Wesleyan, 75-88; 12/05 vs. DePauw
#29	60	William Paterson	4-3	LOST at New Jersey City, 64-70; 12/05 vs. T#30 Stockton
T#30	46	Stockton	3-2	LOST to TCNJ, 70-76; 12/05 at #29 William Paterson
T#30	46	Eastern Connecticut	4-2	12/05 vs. T#51 Southern Maine
#32	45	Illinois Wesleyan	3-2	12/05 vs. #14 Washington U.
#33	44	Scranton	5-1	12/05 at Juniata
#34	39	Chicago	5-2	won at Wheaton (Ill.), 77-52; 12/05 vs. Kalamazoo
#35	30	Northwestern (Minn.)	5-1	LOST at T#51 Bethel, 62-64; 12/05 at Finlandia
#36	29	St. Norbert	3-1	def. Ripon, 59-57; 12/05 at Grinnell
#37	24	Emory	4-3	12/06 at Guilford
#38	20	Texas Lutheran	5-1	12/05 at Mary Hardin-Baylor
#39	17	Albertus Magnus	4-0	won at Suffolk, 80-70; 12/03 at Emmanuel
T#40	15	Montclair State	4-1	LOST at Rutgers-Newark, 87-90; 12/05 at Ramapo
T#40	15	Centre	5-1	def. Hanover, 84-80
T#42	14	Skidmore	4-1	won at TCNJ, 69-57; 12/05 vs. Middlebury
T#42	14	St. Olaf	2-2	def. Augsburg, 69-65; 12/05 at St. John's
#44	12	Whitman	4-0	12/04 vs. Linfield; 12/05 vs. Lewis and Clark
#45	9	Pacific Lutheran	5-1	def. Puget Sound, 72-60; 12/05 at Willamette
#46	8	Lancaster Bible	5-0	won at Penn State-Berks, 113-103; 12/05 vs. Bryn Athyn
T#47	6	Geneseo State	5-0	won at Nazareth, 83-81; 12/04 vs. TBA (n); 12/04 vs. Roberts Wesleyan (n); 12/05 vs. TBA (n)
T#47	6	St. Vincent	3-1	def. Bethany, 73-61; 12/05 at Geneva
T#49	5	Penn State-Behrend	4-0	won at D'Youville, 71-60; 12/05 vs. La Roche
T#49	5	Williams	4-0	12/03 vs. Union; 12/05 vs. Wesleyan
T#51	4	Aurora	4-0	def. Concordia-Chicago, 126-95; 12/05 vs. Lakeland
T#51	4	Bethel	5-0	def. #35 Northwestern (Minn.), 64-62; 12/05 vs. Concordia-Moorhead
T#51	4	Southern Maine	4-3	LOST to Bowdoin, 55-81; 12/05 at T#30 Eastern Connecticut
#54	3	Susquehanna	6-0	def. #22 Catholic, 87-81; 12/05 at Merchant Marine
#55	2	Eastern Nazarene	7-0	won at Curry, 70-58; 12/05 at Endicott
T#56	1	Hobart	3-2	LOST to Roberts Wesleyan, 58-59
T#56	1	Keene State	5-0	12/05 vs. Mass-Dartmouth
T#56	1	MIT	5-2	won at Mass-Boston, 74-66; 12/03 vs. Salem State; 12/05 vs. Framingham State
T#56	1	Southern Vermont	2-2	12/03 vs. Regis (Mass.); 12/05 at Lesley

[Greek Tragedy]

Big game as #1 Augie heads to Whitewater tonight. The Warhawks are flying under the radar, imo, as they've won some low-profile games: coming from behind to top Ripon, and cruising over Finlandia and Ohio Northern. They hung tough and lost to #3 NAIA II Davenport (Hope losing to #2 Cornerstone recently).

Whitewater literally lost their entire roster and has several nice transfers come in and Southeast Conference  POTY Andre Brown. I think Brown was hurt last game as he started but just played 3 minutes. That could factor into tonight's game. Massey actually has Whitewater winning 71-69. I expect Augustana to win but I wouldn't be surprised if Whitewater pulls one out.

Whitewater sure doesn't look like a Top 25 team to me right now.

Thanks Mr. Obvious. 

That's easy to say now. They were up 1 at halftime and I'm sure you weren't saying "Whitewater sure doesn't look like a Top 25 team to me right now" at halftime. I'm not too concerned. They played the #1 team in the nation that was in the National Title game last year and returned basically everyone, while Whitewater, as I mentioned, lost basically everyone. It's early. Point didn't look good to start last year either. Whitewater has the talent to be a good team and, gulp, even a Top 25 team later this year. I definitely didn't expect a blowout in the 2nd half, but hats off to Augie. Though I expected Whitewater to challenge Augie tonight, I do not expect Point to do the same Saturday. Even before tonight's outcome, I think Point loses by double-digits this weekend (13-17 pts).

[ronk]

How They Fared (So Far)

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	625	Augustana	3-0	won at #23 UW-Whitewater, 75-55; 12/05 vs. #7 UW-Stevens Point
#2	573	Whitworth	5-0	12/04 vs. Lewis and Clark; 12/05 vs. Linfield
#3	571	St. Thomas	4-0	def. Concordia-Moorhead, 92-64; 12/05 vs. Carleton
#4	548	Amherst	4-0	won at Westfield State, 89-65; 12/05 at Emerson
#5	511	Hope	3-1	12/04 vs. Wheaton (Ill.); 12/05 vs. Carthage
#6	407	Ohio Wesleyan	7-0	def. #28 Wooster, 88-75; 12/05 at Denison
#7	392	UW-Stevens Point	3-1	12/05 at #1 Augustana
#8	366	Elmhurst	5-1	def. Adrian, 82-50; 12/05 vs. Albion
#9	349	Marietta	5-1	def. Muskingum, 78-67; 12/05 vs. Wilmington
#10	328	St. John Fisher	3-1	LOST to (n) Rochester Tech, 64-69
#11	315	Babson	5-1	12/05 vs. Brandeis (n); 12/06 vs. TBA (n)
#12	282	Benedictine	4-0	won at Rockford, 89-79; 12/05 vs. Marian
#13	238	WPI	6-0	def. Tufts, 85-70; 12/03 vs. Framingham State; 12/05 vs. Fitchburg State
#14	235	Washington U.	5-0	12/05 at #32 Illinois Wesleyan
#15	217	Virginia Wesleyan	4-2	12/05 at Washington and Lee
#16	193	John Carroll	6-0	def. Heidelberg, 82-63; 12/05 at Ohio Northern
#17	181	Salisbury	5-1	LOST at #21 Christopher Newport, 60-71; 12/05 at Frostburg State
#18	171	Trinity (Conn.)	4-1	def. Vassar, 74-56
#19	164	New York University	5-0	def. John Jay, 81-67
#20	141	Franklin and Marshall	5-1	def. Ursinus, 63-57; 12/05 vs. Washington College
#21	137	Christopher Newport	5-0	def. #17 Salisbury, 71-60; 12/05 at Marymount
#22	108	Catholic	3-3	LOST at #54 Susquehanna, 81-87; 12/05 at Moravian
#23	107	UW-Whitewater	3-2	LOST to #1 Augustana, 55-75; 12/05 at Beloit
#24	95	Brooklyn	7-0	won at SUNY-Old Westbury, 91-64; def. Stevens, 107-92; 12/04 vs. John Jay
#25	89	Oswego State	6-0	12/04 at Fredonia State; 12/05 at Buffalo State

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	88	East Texas Baptist	3-1	12/03 vs. McMurry; 12/05 vs. Hardin-Simmons
#27	84	Mount Union	4-2	def. Baldwin Wallace, 110-109; 12/05 at Capital
#28	80	Wooster	2-2	LOST at #6 Ohio Wesleyan, 75-88; 12/05 vs. DePauw
#29	60	William Paterson	4-3	LOST at New Jersey City, 64-70; 12/05 vs. T#30 Stockton
T#30	46	Stockton	3-2	LOST to TCNJ, 70-76; 12/05 at #29 William Paterson
T#30	46	Eastern Connecticut	4-2	12/05 vs. T#51 Southern Maine
#32	45	Illinois Wesleyan	3-2	12/05 vs. #14 Washington U.
#33	44	Scranton	5-1	12/05 at Juniata
#34	39	Chicago	5-2	won at Wheaton (Ill.), 77-52; 12/05 vs. Kalamazoo
#35	30	Northwestern (Minn.)	5-1	LOST at T#51 Bethel, 62-64; 12/05 at Finlandia
#36	29	St. Norbert	3-1	def. Ripon, 59-57; 12/05 at Grinnell
#37	24	Emory	4-3	12/06 at Guilford
#38	20	Texas Lutheran	5-1	12/05 at Mary Hardin-Baylor
#39	17	Albertus Magnus	4-0	won at Suffolk, 80-70; 12/03 at Emmanuel
T#40	15	Montclair State	4-1	LOST at Rutgers-Newark, 87-90; 12/05 at Ramapo
T#40	15	Centre	5-1	def. Hanover, 84-80
T#42	14	Skidmore	4-1	won at TCNJ, 69-57; 12/05 vs. Middlebury
T#42	14	St. Olaf	2-2	def. Augsburg, 69-65; 12/05 at St. John's
#44	12	Whitman	4-0	12/04 vs. Linfield; 12/05 vs. Lewis and Clark
#45	9	Pacific Lutheran	5-1	def. Puget Sound, 72-60; 12/05 at Willamette
#46	8	Lancaster Bible	5-0	won at Penn State-Berks, 113-103; 12/05 vs. Bryn Athyn
T#47	6	Geneseo State	5-0	won at Nazareth, 83-81; 12/04 vs. TBA (n); 12/04 vs. Roberts Wesleyan (n); 12/05 vs. TBA (n)
T#47	6	St. Vincent	3-1	def. Bethany, 73-61; 12/05 at Geneva
T#49	5	Penn State-Behrend	4-0	won at D'Youville, 71-60; 12/05 vs. La Roche
T#49	5	Williams	4-0	12/03 vs. Union; 12/05 vs. Wesleyan
T#51	4	Aurora	4-0	def. Concordia-Chicago, 126-95; 12/05 vs. Lakeland
T#51	4	Bethel	5-0	def. #35 Northwestern (Minn.), 64-62; 12/05 vs. Concordia-Moorhead
T#51	4	Southern Maine	4-3	LOST to Bowdoin, 55-81; 12/05 at T#30 Eastern Connecticut
#54	3	Susquehanna	6-0	def. #22 Catholic, 87-81; 12/05 at Merchant Marine
#55	2	Eastern Nazarene	7-0	won at Curry, 70-58; 12/05 at Endicott
T#56	1	Hobart	3-2	LOST to Roberts Wesleyan, 58-59
T#56	1	Keene State	5-0	12/05 vs. Mass-Dartmouth
T#56	1	MIT	5-2	won at Mass-Boston, 74-66; 12/03 vs. Salem State; 12/05 vs. Framingham State
T#56	1	Southern Vermont	2-2	12/03 vs. Regis (Mass.); 12/05 at Lesley

My understanding is that #33 Scranton's record should be 4-1 since its opening game victory was against Bryn Athyn, a year 2 provisional team and is essentially no contest as far as regional ranking criteria.

[Pat Coleman]

My understanding is that Scranton's record should be 4-1 since its opening game victory was against Bryn Athyn, a year 2 provisional team and is essentially no contest as far as regional ranking criteria.

But it counts on their overall record, so Scranton is 5-1 indeed. If this page were about regional rankings, that would be more likely to be relevant.

[7express]

I can't believe Southern Maine got more votes then Keene State.

[AllStar]

I can't believe Southern Maine got more votes then Keene State.

Makes no sense why Southern Maine is even getting votes at all.

[Titan Q]

That's easy to say now. They were up 1 at halftime and I'm sure you weren't saying "Whitewater sure doesn't look like a Top 25 team to me right now" at halftime.

Actually I was saying that halftime, when the score was 29-28.  The first half was really ugly and neither team looked very good.  In the 2nd, Augie looked outstanding while UW-Whitewater still looked pretty disorganized and really struggled to shoot it:

FG = 32.3%
3-point = 12.5%
FT = 67%

I do know that UWW has 7 transfers this year, so I am guessing the Warhawks will be better in January than December...but they are not a Top 25 team right now.

[sac]

I can't believe Southern Maine got more votes then Keene State.

Makes no sense why Southern Maine is even getting votes at all.

Beating a Bates team that went 21-7 last year might get you noticed. 


The question I have is whats going on at University of New England,  also with a win over Bates and Southern Maine.  8 wins the most in a single season the last 5 years and have 5 already.

[Greek Tragedy]

That's easy to say now. They were up 1 at halftime and I'm sure you weren't saying "Whitewater sure doesn't look like a Top 25 team to me right now" at halftime.

Actually I was saying that halftime, when the score was 29-28.  The first half was really ugly and neither team looked very good.  In the 2nd, Augie looked outstanding while UW-Whitewater still looked pretty disorganized and really struggled to shoot it:

FG = 32.3%
3-point = 12.5%
FT = 67%

I do know that UWW has 7 transfers this year, so I am guessing the Warhawks will be better in January than December...but they are not a Top 25 team right now.

So at halftime, in the same post you could've said, "Augustana sure doesn't look like the #1 team in the nation" since they were losing to a team that didn't look like a Top 25 team...

[Bengalsrule]

I can't believe Southern Maine got more votes then Keene State.

Makes no sense why Southern Maine is even getting votes at all.

Beating a Bates team that went 21-7 last year might get you noticed. 


The question I have is whats going on at University of New England,  also with a win over Bates and Southern Maine.  8 wins the most in a single season the last 5 years and have 5 already.

I can answer that in 3 words..."Coach Ed Silva".  I met this guy 5 years ago, during the Buff State Bengals "Sweet 16" run, while at a holiday tournament at Worcester State U.!! And although the BENGALS beat Elms in double OT, I, along with many others, were extremely impressed by the discipline that his team showed. Even their warm up was similar (in part) to what you see the University of Hawaii do before their games.  And after having watched his team 2 days in a row, up close and personal, many of us were even more impressed ( we faced each other in the "opening round" of the WSU tourney)!!  There are few coaches that I have met, over the years, that have impressed me as much as Silva did with his demeanor, the respect that not only his his players accorded him but also players from another team that played in Elms conference had for him too. I've learned, over the years, that you can find out something about the person when just standing at the concession stand ordering a coke and having a quick conversation (because both of you are thirsty/hungry). Casual conversations with Silva, and his players, afforded many from Buffalo some insight into a man that is well respected both on and off the court. Those players from "another team" were from Becker, which was roughly 20 mins away from Worcester S. U.. Many of those Becker players drove over to WSU to watch the games and scout Elms. I asked some of them during the 1st day of the tourney why they were there and they shared the fact that they played in the same conference as Elms. However later on further conversations revealed somewhat of an admiration for the Elms coach, and his program, that was hard to miss after listening to these Becker players for 2 days. Elms also won the NECC title that year and went to the NCAA's.


  I have since watched  him thru the years since he moved on to UNE in the spring of 2012. I actually emailed him to congratulate him when he took the post and wished him the best in his new role. He definitely has taken some lumps ( a record of 5 wins  and 20 losses  in 2012-13, 1-24 in 13-14 and 8-19 last season) plus,  if memory serves me correctly, I even posted on the CCC boards 2/3 years ago, that those folks should stay tuned because Silva can coach. I'm happy for the guy and expect his team to continue to make improvements. He had a 7 time league champ at Elms and I expect that, given the time, he will have another winner at UNE. Moral of this post..."Don't count this team or guy out. Silva can flat out coach!!!"   

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Silva's had some trouble recruiting to UNE and getting kids to stick around.  He's got two really good players this year and with the discipline he instills, a good night is a night they beat about anybody.  They're not consistently having good nights yet, but they're having them, which is better than the past couple seasons.

I was at the ENC/Curry dual tournament at Thanksgiving - there's a lot of respect in the conference for what UNE might be capable of.  They'll be right up there with ENC and Endicott.

[Titan Q]

So at halftime, in the same post you could've said, "Augustana sure doesn't look like the #1 team in the nation" since they were losing to a team that didn't look like a Top 25 team...

At halftime I was thinking that what I have speculated on here is true -- that Hope is better than Augustana.

I left the game thinking that Hope/Augustana is a push.

[ronk]

I can't believe Southern Maine got more votes then Keene State.

Makes no sense why Southern Maine is even getting votes at all.

Beating a Bates team that went 21-7 last year might get you noticed. 


The question I have is whats going on at University of New England,  also with a win over Bates and Southern Maine.  8 wins the most in a single season the last 5 years and have 5 already.

I can answer that in 3 words..."Coach Ed Silva".  I met this guy 5 years ago, during the Buff State Bengals "Sweet 16" run, while at a holiday tournament at Worcester State U.!! And although the BENGALS beat Elms in double OT, I, along with many others, were extremely impressed by the discipline that his team showed. Even their warm up was similar (in part) to what you see the University of Hawaii do before their games.  And after having watched his team 2 days in a row, up close and personal, many of us were even more impressed ( we faced each other in the "opening round" of the WSU tourney)!!  There are few coaches that I have met, over the years, that have impressed me as much as Silva did with his demeanor, the respect that not only his his players accorded him but also players from another team that played in Elms conference had for him too. I've learned, over the years, that you can find out something about the person when just standing at the concession stand ordering a coke and having a quick conversation (because both of you are thirsty/hungry). Casual conversations with Silva, and his players, afforded many from Buffalo some insight into a man that is well respected both on and off the court. Those players from "another team" were from Becker, which was roughly 20 mins away from Worcester S. U.. Many of those Becker players drove over to WSU to watch the games and scout Elms. I asked some of them during the 1st day of the tourney why they were there and they shared the fact that they played in the same conference as Elms. However later on further conversations revealed somewhat of an admiration for the Elms coach, and his program, that was hard to miss after listening to these Becker players for 2 days. Elms also won the NECC title that year and went to the NCAA's.


  I have since watched  him thru the years since he moved on to UNE in the spring of 2012. I actually emailed him to congratulate him when he took the post and wished him the best in his new role. He definitely has taken some lumps ( a record of 5 wins  and 20 losses  in 2012-13, 1-24 in 13-14 and 8-19 last season) plus,  if memory serves me correctly, I even posted on the CCC boards 2/3 years ago, that those folks should stay tuned because Silva can coach. I'm happy for the guy and expect his team to continue to make improvements. He had a 7 time league champ at Elms and I expect that, given the time, he will have another winner at UNE. Moral of this post..."Don't count this team or guy out. Silva can flat out coach!!!"   

Scranton played Elms(Silva) in the 2008 NCAA regional @ Gettysburg(Pat Coleman was there also); Scranton had better talent including a post(Bicknell) that Elms couldn't stop but Elms' full court press was so effective that each time Scranton got into its half court offense there was usually <15 seconds on the shot clock; they were so exhausted breaking the press that halfway through the 2nd half of a close game they ran out of gas and Elms won in a rout.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Great night for #d3h.

Buff State trailed the whole second half, hit a three with 2 seconds to go to tie and send it to overtime.  The same guy hits an off-balanced runner to take a two point lead with six seconds left in overtime - then Cortland comes down and nails a contested three to win.  Gutsy decision to shoot for the win rather than go to the hoop.

Then...

Hope trailed the whole game (they made the first bucket and never led again) down 7 with 2 minutes to go - they get it to 2 with 25 seconds to go, get a turnover on the full court press and run in for a hoop and the foul (which the guy hit).  Wheaton comes tearing down the other way and nails a three that hits the rim first, then the backboard, then in.  Hope doesn't call a time out, runs the length of the court and get's an off balanced runner to go, with a foul.  They miss the FT and Wheaton is content to go to OT.  They're in OT now.